Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

hilde, give what you've said about how he dealt with DS2's condition when he had him just a few hours, I'd say no way to the overnight. That was the first time he had DS2 on his own (is that right?), and he should have been going out of his way to show that he could cope and do things right. He didn't even bother. He still just wants to do everything his own way and not get challenged on it. Be firm about it, be honest about your reasons. It's his own fault. He's not doing anything to help you see that he can be a responsible carer to DS2's specific and special medical needs, in fact he's been given the opportunity and he screwed it.

Regards what he said about him hitting DD - so he needs you to tell him so he can come to terms with it? It seems to me like he's looking to you to be the one to solve things for him here. Frankly, if he needs someone to tell him 'what he's done' and why it was wrong, then...
I think he's looking to try and engage you any way he can, even if it's discussion about this. Just ignore, detach, and get on with your own stuff. He can get on with his, and deal with it however he sees fit. As difficult as it is, it's not your responsibility to help him 'come to terms' with anything.

Bring on the Christmas smilies MNHQ please!

here here pony

one dc does have all over body hives, but no way goes anywhere near FW when like that. Have trusted to good friends with allergy/emergency procedure knowledge over FW any day!

We all try to justify what we do and why we behave in certain ways and can find it difficult to see other perspectives but each responsible to see own. Regardless of whats said he will very deep down [sometimes] have a knowledge of the awful consequence of his actions. Noone else can face that for him, and sollitude is best way to face it head on, outside attempts are just distractions, reasons to resist.

and agree totally Hilde we know what we /others should do, but doing it is sooo much harder. It is easier to remove expectation of ourselves tho to actually say anything in the face of 'rubbish/ranting/f'witter/abuse'. Practice ignoring, just think things like Harry Potter does when faced with a Boggart that takes the form of your worst fear, and turn it into something halarious (like how his stupid nostrils flare and eyes bulge when he gets so ridiculous with himself), and really 'look' at him, rather than 'feel' the rage he's emitting. It was what has helped me to distance, as I realised I couldn't actually 'look' as I was so scared. Now I can look [a bit] then just look away and be more distant from it. So at some level I've managed to have a word with myself and take my own advice, as we all have to our own degrees. just keep doing more of the same!

heaps of encouragement to all. Despite bad night, feeling energy for resisting pretty good today. and def rather be in this situation rather than still under same roof [in agreement with whoever said that] recently

Hi everyone, could I just defend the vow to 'obey', as it is so misunderstood.

'Obey' comes from the Latin word 'to listen'. You are promising to listen, which is never any bad thing. I hold my hand up to being a poor listener, although I am trying to develop this skill in myself.

That aside: I feel a bit of a fraud coming here because the problems in my life marriage are so hidden and understated compared to the obviously hurtful stuff that is written here. What is does is make me feel crazy, because nobody will ever understand why I feel the way I do. 'But he is so nice', his work would say. 'You must forgive him and let it go, he made a simple mistake but it's over' my family will say. 'But you get on so well, we have never seen tension between you, and he is such a nice guy!' our friends would say.

I have no support. I have no one who will believe me. That he:

1. is absolutely outraged if I bring up any complaint, no matter how tactful or sensitive. In fact, tactful and sensitive gets ignored, and anything more forceful is me being abusive.

1. he denies the issue brought up, whilst telling me I deserve it. He doesn't give me attention because I am a horrible person to be around, but anyway it's not true.

1. he punishes me for bringing up the issue by giving me the silent treatment, not even looking at me, or moving out of a room I go into, or going into another bedroom 'for his protection'.

1. I am punishing him by persecuting him. HE is the victim here, and I make him feel very unsafe. What a bad, horrible person I am, to hurt him to react with pain of his hurting me, and to not getting over it, already!

1. He wants to grow, but not with me. He has given up (because I am so unreasonable). But he won't move out.

It is an absolute headf k, it is draining and debilitating, and I am asking for some support here. Do you believe me? Do you believe that I am not making it up, that I am telling you the truth, that I deserve more out of life than this?

My reality:

I am not given any affection. He shares nothing of his life with me. He buys very expensive things behind my back. I do not see any copies of the bank statements. He will tell the kids stuff he does not tell me (ie I find out about purchases, plans, through the children).

Does someone believe me?

Of course we believe you. We have been there.

Mine wanted to split, but had no plan and wouldn't move out till settlement. Well, he couldn't - he earned peanuts from his collectables and had to wait till he had his hands on some of our money (which basically came from my DF)

Hold fast to your truth, there were times during the last year when I felt v alone, even sympathetic friends didn't get it. This thread sustained me.

Not sure about your account of obey. It has never been in the man's vow - whether it means listen or not. I had civil wedding and made no vows.

Hi all, nipped in to this thread briefly before and lurk often.

wobbly I believe you. It is crazy making x

Also hilde he punched your DD twice and he's not getting what he's done . That's what he needs to seek help with, not what you think and feel about it, but his own lack of response. I really feel for you, dealing with this degree of - what to call it - psychopathy?

I believe you Abitwobbly. You don't need to justify how you feel, we can all see it. I can understand, though, that you feel you need to justify it it RL, for others to see it to confirm you are not mad. But that may not happen, because he is so good at reserving all his abuse for you and you alone. Or, you may find that once you are out the situation, some people say things like 'I always thought he was a bit funny/over-the-top/whatever'. Sometimes, you can be so sure others don't see it because you are half convinced it is just you being crazy.

I guess what I'm saying is that you don't need him to see (because he never will) and don't need others to see - if you are deeply unhappy and don't want to be in the relationship any more, that's all you need to know. And that's all anyone else needs to know.

You said he wont leave. Could you? (There's no reason why you should be the one to leave, btw, but just thinking in terms of getting you out of this toxic situation.)

Abitwobby I believe you. I too am married to a "lovely man" who would do anything to help anyone (except give up the fw-ery for me). No-one suspects what he is like and I can't confide in anyone because of things I have done to try to keep him happy (more fool me). And spending on crap clothes he knows I won't like, and not opening bank statements, and hearing things from the dcs that I should hear from him.

Drop by and post when you are able, your situation is as valid as anyone's here. There are loads of lovely supportive people here (sad that there are so many that need it), but sometimes I feel this is the only place I can begin to be honest. I only post on this thread when he is not in the house.

Abitwobbly we all believe you, please don't feel alone in this. We are all in the same type of boat truging along-some only at the beginning of their journey in the rough stormy seas others nearly escaped out to the calm beautiful ocean of a new life. Stick with us, I have received some amazing advice and support from ladies on here.

Sorry if the above sounds cheesy!!

Everyone else sorry for not being very supportive lately, we have the bloody FIL visiting this week. EPIC! Just what I need write properly soon! ((Hugs))

hey Maggie sorry to here of alien invasion! Be pleasant and keep your distance - a very good opportunity to practice your new skills

I meant of 'detaching' being distant (not being pleasant of course!!) [biggrin]

umm

for any falling foul of the MNmessageeatingmonsters - which I have frequently to protect your message from the MNmonsters log in first and its protected

Stay protected ladies.

Thanks Shriek! I have defo been keeping my distance this visit. Normally I'm the one that has to make all the small talk etc whilst FW just sits there with a face on him or pretends to be doing something in the kitchen. Sorry but its his dad why should I always put myself out, I always get a mouthful about it all anyway after the FIL has left so not doing it anymore. Will write more later ladies when I've got DC to bed and settled. FW working this eve and its a friday night too so god knows what time he will grace me with his presence

FW nearly made DS2 cry tonight by pinching a bit of his dinner (special treat meal) while DS was up from the table havjng been told to fetch FW a drink. I gave DS mine to make up for it. DS then said to FW that he'd made me miss out on it and FW tried to say it was nothing to do with him that i had given Ds part if my meal! DS1 then remarked that DH work colleagues said he was all take and no give ( with office goodies). So our kids are noticing his selfish behaviour-nice!

Hi everyone.....just having a catch up over the last few pages!

Pony Wow re the bulimia bombshell, people with eating disorders are experts in hiding what they do, so don't feel guilty etc about not noticing. Agree with others, he shouldn't have put this on you at this late stage and seems like he may just be doing so to try and cling onto you. I once found slimming pills hidden in my FWs sock drawer - was most bizarre, then remembered that my auntie had make a passing comment about him putting on weight a few months before that really bothered him. Most people that know us wouldn't think it of him but I think he is deeply insecure and that is part of his FWirty issues.

Nini So sorry to hear about the counselling session, how do you feel deep down? Do you want to carry them on? I remember when I first came on this thread considering joint counselling and I think now the situation has just got past that stage - I don't think any sort of counselling can rescue our relationship now - he has issues that he needs to deal with first. Hope you are ok and its not getting you down too much.

Hilde So sorry to hear what happened with DD1, how awful and what a FW. That is my worry that my FW will start to also use EA and PA on my daughter too, she is not stupid and tells him when he is doing something wrong (shouting at me mainly), I think this may get her into his bad books one of these days but I won't let her be treated as I have been for the last 13 years. Re DS2, I feel your pain, I know I too will have issues about this with my FW when I escape, he has hardly done the bedtime routine with either of my DC and when he does they don't settle and are upset most of the night. I suppose its all about letting go and having to let him have his access but at the same time we have to put our DCs best interests first. Is a hard situation to make decisions about hey? Thinking of you.

Trying I agree with the others, defo go for the flat if you still can, you are amazing finding somewhere so quickly and moving forward. I too am worried about school catchment areas etc. My DD is due to start school in september so I have to have applications in by december/january - am dreading this as FW is dead set on being involved in filling in the on line forms etc and choosing the school around the corner from us here. I know we won;t even be here come september so really don't know what to do. How are you going to approach the whole leaving home situation? Are you just going to leave when he is out or tell him and leave? I am personally dreading this part of the process as my FW is so unpredictable and god knows how he will react. I am hoping he wil do something majorily FWirty after chirstmas time and that will be my cue to leave

yummymommy Re mental health issues I seriously think my FW has some sort of problem whether it is bipolar, skitz etc. I have asked him (nicely) on numerous occasions to see the doctor alone or even with me to discuss it but no, I just get a mouthful of insults back at me. Sometimes people are beyond help and they have to get over the denial before they can get better. It makes me sad because maybe with help and necessary meds he could be ok.

Parapet My FW is too everyones best friend. He is literally Jackell and Hyde. Everyone outside of the home sees this great man who would do anything for anyone, everyones mate and so funny - the life and soul of every party. What they don't see is me sitting at home waiting for him or if I'm with him, the nasty remarks getting whispered to me about my looks, things I've said etc - just to try and knock my confidence (as if it couldn't get any lower). This worries me as I just don't know how people will react when I do leave

Shriek / Fool / Silver etc Hope things have been going well for you all recently, know you still have your difficult days but thanks so much for the continous support you give to the rest of us, it is really a great help

Where am I at the moment? Still working on detaching....slipping up a few times and arguing back but am trying. Am trying to gather as much stuff as possible and hide it away in emergency bags. Have been in touch with the council with regards to what benefits I am entitled to until I get back on my feet and find a job. Have also been looking at properties to rent locally which was my original plan but more recently have been looking at places near my parents too (200 miles away) There is a really great primary school and nursery near them and I know I would have their 24/7 support with the kids, I would also be able to get a job at my old firm who have an office located there. I just don't know what to do - how can I take the kids 200 miles away from their dad, especially when they are so young? Am worried DS (18mths) will forget him If I did go, is there anything he could do to stop me? I hadn't even thought of moving towards my parents area until I was chatting briefly with my MIL the other day - have been dropping a few hints about FWs behaviour so she knows and she turned around and said that not to feel I have to stay in the area for her or StepFIL and if I would be happier near my parents then I should go for it as they would defo come and visit regularly (they know my parents too). I said about taking kids away from FW and she said he has a car, he know my parents area so could be there in a few hours and could have kids a week at a time etc etc. I was quite shocked as well...as she is HIS mum and I expected her to be on his side especially re the kids. He has been really shitty with her lately though for no reason so maybe she sees a little bit of what I have been dealing with for the last 13 years. Locally, the only people I really know are FW, his mum, stepdad and some mutual friends. I haven't really made any real friends of my own (been here 5 years) in this area - FWs hometown so my confidence has just totally died to the stage where I don't even know how to socialise anymore (get anxious about making conversation etc). Then on the other hand, FW is racing around chatting/laughing with everyone and they all think he is a legend. In fact at the recent wedding we had to go to, one of his friends told me I was so lucky to have him as he was a total legend and everyone can rely on him and love him so much (puke) so I told him things are not always as they seem to which his response was as long as our mortgage is getting paid I shouldn't care what FW does in his spare time. I asked him what would his wife think of that and he told me they are going through a divorce - I burst out laughing!

Sorry for the huge essay stylie post!! Hugs to you all!!! Keep calm and carry on as they say!

ps - sorry if I missed anyone off

Oscar Sorry just seen your post too, sorry to hear about the dinner time antics. I think FWs have a knack of making this a most uncomfortable time, whenever it is just me and kids eating dinner together we have a good laugh, when he joins us, its just everyone sitting there eating, hardly any talk - even babbling from my DS stops. Kids are not stupid are they? They might not say but they know. My dad was the same - EA etc and me and my DBro to this day hate him for what he put me and our mum through. He has changed now, but the hate is still there. We dreaded stuff like christmas dinner even from an early age as knew he would defo sit at the table with us and there would be some sort of conflict. Life shouldn't be like that should it? I just can't let my DC end up like me and DBro.

Pony so sorry to hear about the bulimia bombshell. My first thought, perhaps cynically, was, good timing for him to tell you now, after all these years - plugging into those caring genes we sufferers of fwittery are cursed/blessed with. Just when you're on the road to escape. As I found with my boyfriend from years ago who was an addict, my intervention had no affect whatsoever - this kind of issue needs professional support and the person's wish to cure themselves. Don't let this derail you from your own escape and healing process

Nini also very sorry to hear how you are suffering from this counselling. It doesn't sound happy or healthy for you at all and I think by the time we come on this thread, we have been put in the position after years of abuse where we have to learn to put ourselves first- that's what our fws have always done after all!

Hilde so shocked and sympathetic about what your fw did to dd and also his carelessness re ds. His act is slipping even when you're not actually living together and he's just seeing the dcs some of the time. I think your shuddering sensation when he briefly touches you tells you all you need to know - our subconscious seems to be able to spot a lot we find hard to see in our woods/trees state of mind IYSWIM. Like my panic attacks at key moments like marrying fw, getting back together with him, etc etc.

Maggie sympathy re "alien invasion" good phrase! Just think, when you're free - no more alien out law invasions will be a great minor perk - the main one being given life, value and freedom to breathe of course!

I called agent yesterday and today but we keep missing eachother. But today I finally caught him and flat is still available. I had wobbles these last few days because thing have "normalised" - ie only ignoring, living separately, no respect, demeaning comments? But not the verbal and emotional brutalising that has been making weekends particularly hell because dm has been here. But all your comments have strengthened my resolve again - and thanks heartoday for the man's perspective, very useful. I am putting in offer tomorrow and we'll see how that goes! All my essentials are in bags in my dm's car ready for the day I fly, plus I plan to gather up favourite ornaments, books and leave at my friend?s over next few weeks. Toy wise, I have some stashed and ready to place at friend's too.

Everyone, love strength and peaceful good wishes and thanks for the support. xxx

Maggie you are one wonderful lady, don't ever doubt it. Get out there with your lovely little ones and shine. Your parents will help and you will be home safe. I think the worst that could happen, under the circumstances, would be that you would have to drive half way to meet up for swap overs, or time for him to have with the kids for afternoon and then drive them back home again (which might be more likely given the conditions you are all currently living under). thanks for your kind thoughts (as always ;) xxx

ooo Trying excited for your covert plans!

Hoping for better night tonight.

Oh Maggie, I can completely identify with the dinner thing. Now that it's just us, dinner is a relaxed affair. There's singing, laughing, there's jumping up from the table and dancing (not always welcome, but there's no shouting whatever happens). When I was with NSDH, dinner was had in an atmosphere, every night. Even when things were 'fine', DS1 was always scared to be himself and mess about. He'd eat dinner watching NSDH, watching for his facial expressions and disapproval. NSDH often got him into trouble for staring at him.

Glad you are still working on detaching. Regards the moving away thing - I think you'd best ask a solicitor. I think if you went to a refuge, there's a chance they'd move you outwith the area anyway. I moved around 400miles from DS1's dad when we moved back to Scotland. He could have contested, technically, but given that we were moving back to family it wouldn't have likely succeeded. So I don't think you'd have a problem, but best get advice.
I've said this before, but DS1's dad is just an ordinary eejit, not an abusive one, so he didn't contest my move, not expecting to get anywhere and so not wanting to cause problems for the sake of it, and knowing that DS1's needs were my main concern. And DS1's dad cannot be faulted for his commitment to DS1, despite the distance. Deep down, he's a good man. Your FW is not like that. I suspect he will either contest or not see them at all (in which case, rejoice at the lack of opportunity he will have to f-them up). I don't imagine that he'll succeed, but you need to be prepared for him fighting you.

Thanks for advice Pony I think he will fight me, he is obsessed with everyone thinking we are such a nice perfect family when out so I really don't know how he will react when the time comes and his little show off family falls apart. He will probably be more bothered about his friends reactions than us actually leaving to be honest but know he could get really nasty (PA) at anytime too. God help me. Am hoping when I do go, he will have done one of his major FW staying out all night things and I can go early in the morning when he is in a drug/booze induced coma asleep in our bed. I am stashing most of my emergency stuff hidden in DSs bedroom as FW hardly ever goes in there and can quickly get it downstairs and into the car from there.

Thanks Shriek! I am very very tarnished so may take some time to shine again!! Currently have no £££ for hair appointments or even DIY hair dye so rocking the grey hair ribs root look this month FW on the other hand has splashed out on 4 (v expensive) gig tickets for him and his friends today. Lovely.