Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Of course you are upset! What do you think his intention was?
Do you really think he believes for one moment that you are having an affair??
of course not!!
As for weight, quite apart from the fact that you can be whatever weight you wish - I very much doubt that he knows - or cares - how much you weigh - it was just said to upset you. Listen to Silver 'I am interested in the whole person' gives him scope to criticize you for just about anything or everything should the weight thing fail to upset you (and he will).
You are right to be upset about the last one. Very worrying. He is seeing his power slip - make sure you are safe and supported.
Take Back Power Now.
Sorry to be abrasive, I am not very good at being anything else.

I talked to mine, but it was when I'd decided to divorce. It was hard to admit that, contrary to what they had thought (due to me fudging the issue) he was not earning money to provide for his family. DM had noticed he wasn't working much when she was up, she thought he perhaps had money from his own DM's estate. And twas only recently I explained to my cousin - who thought Ex was doing business consulting/NLP with a tranch of clients.

What I'm trying to say is that shame was my stumbling block (and was the thing that led me to lose contact with long-term friends who didn't live near). Of course it should have been his shame! My DM, DB and DF were v supportive, it was OK once I'd said it, but hard to do!

arthritic - thanks. I do not mind abrasive. I think we EA'ers have grown a pretty thick skin by now! Clearly the whole email is designed to upset me at a time when I'm at work so technically 'away' from him - the one bit of my life that he actually has no hold over.

pussycat I'll maybe talk to them. i knwo they'd like to. It just seems to final. But I really think that is where I am now.

thanks Nini I think its probably worth going back once more just to hear what might be said, but you must do whats right for you, You could phone I guess if you didn't want to have the 'couple appt'. Same thing happened to me I felt unheard, unacknowledged, that noone could see what was going on. When I went back they read definitions of DV to us. NSDH wouldn't go back, slippery slope to the end.

my understanding onthe was that counsellors only keep notes for their own reference for the next session, nothing that makes any sense to anyone, and is completely confidential (unless children are considered to be at risk, then has to be reported).

Thanks pony very encouraged that you think I am moving forward, feeling totally stuck [hsad]. Have been advised to get the right legal advice for 'complicated' situation (EA I think). so good to hear of your 'doubled-over laughing' the best medicine

Kimberlina don't answer it, don't take any notice of it, IGNORE it. Other people will draw their own conclusions about him/you. If he shouts it at you in the street, just walk on by and let him. He can say what he wants, it doesn't matter, its only what you feel that matters. You know what he's about, and like you say he sees himself as some sort of architect rather than being part of something emotional/caring/supportive between you. Just because he says it doesn't mean its true of course, in fact more likely to be the opposite! No need for a reaction (that will only give him something to feed on - give him nothing), especially not from your work mail in reply.

I know you don't think you're brave much of the time but I think you all are, and I wish I was and shake off this fear.

shriek I think everybody else is far braver than me. I think maybe that is symptomatic of years of grinding us down that we inherently believe we are weak and rubbish. At least here we can get support and advice from others in the same situation.

I'm going to tell him that I haven't had chance to think about it and that I'm not ready to talk about it when I get home. i.e. I shall be in control about if/when we discuss it. Unfortunately we live together so it will be hard to completely avoid the subject.

It's DDs birthday this week so really I just want to get past that and give her a day that is all about her. She won't remember it (2) but I will.

Feeling even sadder today, Mum went home after a nice few days so now it's just US again. I dropped a few hints about things he says/does but she didn't really respond so I wasn't brave enough to tell her what's really going on. I'm undecided about whether or not to go to couples counselling next week, agree with you Curtis when you say the counsellor probably won't say anything and even if she does it won't be anything constructive. I'm a bit mad at her actually.

Kim, I agree with everyone else when they say ignore it, it's just spiteful and deliberately hurtful, what horrible things to say to you.

Take Back Power Now should be our support group motto!

So sorry not been much support lately on here, been trying to do halloween stuff with DC.

So here I am....2am on a tuesday night lying on the sofa, biggest headache and full of anxiety. FW has gone AWOL again-on a week night... what have I done to deserve this and where the hell is he?

He has had a day off work today so today has been tense anyway. DD has been poorly and earlier today she (by accident) spilt some milk on the carpet-he went mental shouting and eventually storming off upstairs to sulk. She was so upset but he didn't give a shit-she is only 3 yrs old. Of course it was all my fault and I should have been watching her more (even though he was sat there too). Anyway more of the same throughout the avo, nasty comments here and there to me and also the usual groping of my intimate parts when I am doing something and off guard (playing with kids on floor/ benting over to clean etc). Anyway I put the kids to bed and he was downstairs watching tv. Once they were in bed I lay on our bed until they dozzed off (listening for poorly DD) I must have fell asleep myself but woke at 8pm ish-came downstairs, tv was still on etc but FW no where to be seen. Thought he may of just nipped to shop so left it until 10pm ish-text him asking if all was ok, had he rushed out in an emergency etc as no note, text etc to say he had gone and where. He text back saying he had gone to shop and just nipped for a quick pint. Its now past 2am and he's still not home. I've text him again at 130am asking if he was coming home-only just got a response saying 'home in 5mins' when I challange him about this behaviour he always says I'm overreacting and boring-please someone tell me I'm being normal and its not right to treat me and two toddlers like this??? Am so tired and drained, first night in ages DD seems to be sleeping and I'm wide awake on pins waiting for that key in the door :-(

He's home now-said he has been here, there and everywhere with no one I know. After further quizzing turns out he has been at the pub then back to a friends house around the corner with a group of mates. Is he 36 years old for gods sake not 18. He told me he stayed out because I hate him and then I got a load of name calling including "point scoring c**t" thrown at me. Charming. Am in bed now, he can sleep on the sofa for once and get a stiff back. Am so unhappy and sad for all of us on here. What did we all do to deserve being stuck in the situations we find ourselves in daily? We are a nice bunch of ladies so why have we all become so trapped sorry, enough of the middle of the night jeremy kyle stylie posts, hope you all have a good day tomorrow. My tired zombie swollen cried out eyes look will fit right in for halloween! Hugs to you all x

Oh Maggie, that's just awful awful awful. No, it's definitely not normal of him to be doing this when he's got a partner and two kids at home. You are the normal one. You are the sane one. He would like you to believe otherwise because then that would make him feel normal, but he's not. In the end, you will get through this, and come out the other side and be so so so much happier without him. There might be a lot to get through first, but you'll do it. My only advice in your situation is to detach more, if it's safe to do so. If he comes in late, even if you're awake and on tenter-hooks until he comes in, feign indifference, don't ask him where he's been, who with, etc. That just drains you of more energy, and he's never going to give you a proper apology (which I guess is all you really want), so best just to leave alone. Remember you can't change him, he'll carry on this way until kingdom come, all you can do is reserve your own energy and not engage with him. I know that's hard when he's such a FW though! hugs.

hilde, glad you've had such a restorative time away. When do you see FW again? Have you had any more communication attempts from him? Definitely see a solicitor, I saw one even before I left, just to work out what my options and rights were. Get tooled up with information, it's a good thing.

Nini, how are you feeling today? How is everyone else? I'm off to my counselling in a minute, been a good week in lots of respects, barring last Wednesday's blip I've been calm and happy, such a nice weekend and I felt joyous yesterday at the prospect of having started my Christmas shopping [hgrin]. I think of NSDH and feel there's not much there for me. And then I get a text from him this morning asking how I am (as well about as practical DS1 & 2 issues), and my heart leaps and sighs all over again. Bugger.

My heart was the last thing to give in, pony, I was away shortly after I started divorce proceedings, had one last go at seeing if there was anything left, by text. It was like I could see my poor suffering heart lying bruised, but still twitching feebly with hope.

But shortly after that my heart gave up the battle, quite easily, without any effort on my part. I realised, and continue to realise to this day, that I was only in love with a fantasy I had created. And after that my love died a peaceful and quick death.

My heart is fine now btw - no lasting damage :)

Damn MN ate my post.

Feeling a bit down today, thanks for asking Curtis. I've got the day off so am just pottering around the house, have a whole list of things that need doing but don't seem to be getting anywhere, just feel tired and listless. NSDH is trying to be all Mr Reasonable again. After we had dinner last night (in silence), he asked me if I wanted to talk. I said no, and went upstairs to study. Now I feel bad for still feeling upset about what happened at counselling on Monday, and that if I don't talk to him he will turn round at our next session and say he tried to talk but I was being sullen. How did your counselling go today?

Maggie, feel so for you. What a FW he is. When my NSDH stays out much later than he says he will, I just go to bed and punish him in the morning by playing loud kids games/films, laughing etc with DD. I also think you need to keep detaching if you can, he obviously doesn't care that it bothers you so at least on the outside you could try acting indifferent? Where are you at with escaping? Hugs for you

Hey Maggie I don't think you need anyone to tell you how much you hate it, do you. That is all you need to know, we will tell you we think its unreasonable, abusvie, disrespectufl, etc. etc. etc.... but it is your own feelings that you need to listen to, and its driving you nuts [understandably!].

REally feel for you; I agree it is soo very sad to live life this way. Sadly too an all too familiar story, I'm sure many recognise!

nini don't underestimate/undermine the strength of your feelings about the last counselling session, you need to remember how it left you feeling, that was real, so that you can take it back. I can absolutely see his reasoning for the return of the oh-so-false 'Mr Reasonable', he needs you to 'forgive & forget' before you get back there, he needs to turn you around so he can stop worrying. Stick to you guns hun, this is how you felt, its very important to be true to yourself and hang on to it and act out of it. there need to be consequences for him, and this will be one finally. So feel good that you will listen to yourself and look out for yourself, which is the only way to protect yourself from harm. The change happens inside before it appears on the outside.

so true silver we sadly bought the disney fairytale sold to girls about some 'romance' instead of the realities of looking deeply at men/relationship and noticing whats really going on for us and whether 'we' want it/choose it.

pony your poor heart [hsad] rescue it and make it better [hsmile]

huge hugs to all. My nights are full of such dark thoughts in the wee small hours. Brave, strong levels low right now. Still stuck, fearful. WA away this week, which I find hard being back to being alone with thoughts, amazing what a support and brain straightener I find it.

but, on a brighter note wishing everyone a cheeky happy halloween! Grab some fun. Going to see what I can manage [hwink]

Hi everyone. I've been away for a while but wanted to check in. Sorry to see so many of you still here, but good to see there is still so much good advice.

I am 6 months out now and doing well, and have finally, finally started to get angry, which I think is heathly. Sometimes at myself for the 12 wasted years, which is not healthy but mainly not.

Seeing a new man....a nice one (I hope!), but am taking things slow, working on boundaries and continuing counselling.

Just wanted to say hi. I've had lots of family staying so haven't kept up to date on here properly but have been reading through to catch up. Hugs to Maggie, Pony, Nini and all who are suffering xxx

I've got to make decision fast - can you help me? Perfect flat is available Dec. Furnished, even down to tv and crockery. All I need is my black plastic bags of emergency leaving stuff, which is already stored away from home. However, another place will be free via friend in 6 months - the key thing being it is in catchment for the best, most ideal school (ie two birds, one stone). Should I sweat it out for 6 months or go now? I can't see woods for trees. One option woulod be to leave in Dec for perfect place then in six or nine months move to catchment place, but that means two moves for poor dcs who are going to suffer such a shattering upheaval anyway. Another option - separate house we're in for 6 months, same roof but entirely separate living. Tis possible logistically, but obvs v difficult emotionally. Jury's view? Thank you xxx PS I long to leave but feel terrified and sad to leave my much loved home. Is this just jitters?

I think I would go for the bird in the hand, trying. With regard to the place in 6 months, there's many a slip twixt hand and lip, so if it did happen to fall through you would still have got out in Dec. And if it didn't fall through, you could then move in as per your plan. I think the DCs would cope. What kind of distances are we talking about?

Proverbially yours

Personally, for the relief on the DCs and yourself Trying, you're better off moving twice if needs be, you will have far more relaxed and happy times from the moment you leave and that will count for more than any stress of moving twice IMHO, or staying longer than absolutely necessary in abusive situation, a daily struggle for all.

I don't know your situaition hilde but I am sensing that maybe you have some big changes to adjust to, and its very wearing, and you've had a long long time of being abused, the getting on with things after the initial 'WayHay' can be an enormous struggle emtionally to untangle it all, but you have such precious peace to do that in now, enjoy your time to rest and just be. Its really good you have an outting planned. Wipe your tears honey and get your glad rags out [hsmile] and hope its a good night. Take it easy, some ups and downs after being 'battered' for so long. Soon the FW having the DCs will be as matter of fact as dropping at nursery/school/sitters.

an inspiration Pillar, doing boundaries and moving on so quick with new relationship, a brave lady.

Hi guys,

I've not really been able to post so I'll with flu now it's a chest infection so hoping on the mend.
Read all the posts but can't remember all I want to say, will try...

Hildebrand still rooting for you, doing so well.
Trying... If you have made the decision that I cannot, to leave, then you should go now. I know how important the right school is, but the right home even more so. And I don't mean bricks and mortar.
Someone mentioned counselling witnesses. Counsellors keep one set of notes for wherever they work and in some cases another for their own thought processes. Unless there is danger to self or others they should not divulge information and would need to be subpoenaed to surrender notes.
I have managed a good week based on bein'nice. I've been talking to some friends about detachment and not rising to things in RL and it's helped a lot. Also to remind myself that we are in a game when we relate and I don't want o p,a anymore. Consequently he has behaved better than usual. Little things but I've noticed. He was on time twice. Unheard of. He made a few vaguely positive statements.
I know you will all tell me that they cannot change but in my line of work I have been witness to untold alterations from people you could not imagine it in.
I've ad stuff on ea too and I believe a lot of it to be true but Beverley Engels take is more open to change perhaps than lundys.
That said I will never get him to admit to ea. I won't get him to actually acknowledge and alter. What Ian doin is far subtler. I amchangin my reactions to see if I can confused him and therefore alter the script if you like.
It's worth a shot. I have so much to lose by just leaving but nothin to lose by tryin this.
I've promised myself if he's still the same by our next anniversary I will call it a day bar certain caveats like kids being safe, contact with my family, no pa. I know my limits.
It's quite amazing how classic he is though. The whole taking forever to get ready then pretending I'm the late one. The comments abou clothes - jeans in appropriately tight; my facial expression' ugly ' because I was cross, negativity about family etc etc.
U have reacted with blithe answers and carried on which has thrown him completely. But for one week the kids have not had to endure atmosphe or rows. We shall see.

That's dont want to play anymore. Bloody iPad!

There are lots of typos as iPad keeps predicting wrongly v sorry

hi just checking in need to read back over posts above with more time.still away. fw has been txting, phoning,emailing, every day, threatening to make my/ freinds (which ones ? he's scared most of them away!) /family lives hell if he doesnt have access, and threatened to make us homeless .luckily housing assoc are ok with things, and on side, if anything they wud b much more understanding of a nutty ex than a private landlord who cld just say 'get lost' ! so am very grateful for the security it offers at the moment! i have to talk to the police again today, re; harrassment order as injunction cant be served without physical harrasment. have told him calmly today via email that he can have access via a third party, and that the police are involved so all emails etc are being logged and will only make things worse. oh and he also uses the obligatory insult ''you c**t'' so he;s a fully signed up FW too.

Morning all.

trying, I think I would second all the people on here saying 'go sooner rather than later'. Moving twice in six months may sound daunting, but I've been in my place 3 months today (!!!) and it feels like ages. Think of it as breathing space. If we had to pack up in another 3 months, it wouldn't be the end of the world (especially as it's fully furnished so we'd just be taking our own clothes & bits). If it was just a month or two I might advise waiting, but as Silver says, 6 months is a long time to wait, you don't know what might happen. And more importantly, you'll get ground down more and more and more, and may not be able to do it in the end. If your head is in the right place now, go for it. Going now is win-win - you get out, and you can still take the other one in 6 months' time.

yummy, that's good that you have so much in place, regards the house and a police involvement, must be a relief even though his harassment of you sounds awful. Well done for staying calm. Have you got a solicitor yet? Sometimes it's helpful to have it all done 'officially'.

hilde, hope you are feeling better today. You are bound to have down days, and even days when you are almost on the floor. Your DCs going off with FW will be on your mind too, I know how hard that is. Grit your teeth and you'll get through this weekend, we're here to help if we can.

kimberlina, how did things go after that email?

And hi Pillarbox - I remember reading your posts when I was just a lurker on here, to afraid to do anything (but gaining strength by osmosis!). Fantastic to hear that you're doing well.

Saw NSDH last night, had a mini-chat with him (DS1 was out Halloweening). Asked if he got the book yet (not yet, but it's on order). Asked if he started CBT yet - yes, he's had first intro session, all went well, made sense, he's started writing things down.

And then he made some side comment about all the throwing up not helping with his frame of mind.

Now, I know that NSDH throws up sometimes. He threw up before he first met my parents, and before he met my sis & her family. Sometimes, at the weekends, I saw 'stuff' in the toilet, assumed it was to do with him drinking too much. I asked him a few times, he just said he'd eaten too much.

However, it turns out he threw up/throws up every single day. Makes himself sick. Has done for over 10 years.

That's bulimia, isn't it?

My head's a bit screwed by this revelation of his. In a way, I almost feel it's not fair of him to be telling me this, putting it on me. I also (this morning) feel a bit angry - every night I'd knock myself out to get a nice dinner on the table for him coming home, which he'd often scoff at ('what do you mean you haven't done extra veg' - cue lots of banging around as he has to shock, horror go and get some out of the freezer and microwave all by himself). He'd have a big portion, often have seconds, then have bread & jam after. Then, unbeknownst to me, he'd go and throw it all up and end up having a big supper later. He said that throwing up made him feel good, made him feel better, and was a bit of a buzz.

I did a bit of research last night, one site mentioned that in men it can be linked to having being involved in sport training. NSDH trained semi-seriously as a shot-putter when he was younger, and by the sounds was at the gym every day, obsessing about calorie intake, eating nothing but protein, etc.

He tried to brush it away as 'I just need to stop eating so much', but I had to say to him that no, it was more serious than that, it's a coping mechanism at the very least. I don't have any direct or indirect experience of eating disorders, barring what I've read, so I feel a bit at sea. I feel that all this is more serious than I thought, I'm not sure I can cope with this on his behalf, I certainly can't support him. I don't know what to think. He's got two impressionable girls in the house (who told me last weekend they'd heard him being sick). I'm worried about them too.

Another one here agreeing with the 'go now' approach trying, like Silver says, my first concern would be that the second move in 6 months might fall through and then you'll be regretting not going earlier.

ginga, sorry to hear you've been poorly. [hsad] Sounds like you've put him on the back foot so be aware as it doesn't take long for them to bounce back.

hilde, good news about your counselling. I guess the key to keeping yourself going through the next few days is by keeping busy. You're being so strong and doing so well

And good to hear things are going well for you pillarbox, a new man too! Go you! [hgrin]

And thanks Shriek for the pep talk, he came home last night and Mr Reasonable again so I kept thinking about your words that I need to stick to my guns, and I am. Before he left for work this morning he even offered to make me a cuppa before he leaves tomorrow morning. [hhmm] I'm still undecided about going to couples counselling on Monday, I don't think much will come of it and I havn't even arranged childcare for DD yet.