Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Will post more later but could do with a hug tonight. Very bad couples counselling session today.

Hey Nini - sorry to hear that. I'm around off and on this eve if you need to vent.

hi.have been reading the last few pages of threads.helped me as for some reason I sat on the phone today and listened to stbxh trek me how everything was my fault,I am mental, and that everything I complain about in him is actually my own traits (is that a double transference?!)..it was such a head f¿%k....fit hours after I had that old familiar feeling like I had a hangover, totally drained, distracted nervous. my friend told me that its important to let go of the need for him to see he is ea, a he will never see it, so why can't I do it? why do I drill want him to see I an not nuts, at best I had 2 lots of pnd with peter pan as my never land "support"!

Will have to make this quick as my Mum is staying with us. Just want to curl up and go to sleep but maintaining a 'smile' just to keep the peace.

En route to counselling today we were trying to get round some people, he trod on my ankle and nearly tripped me up. I asked if he was going to apologise for nearly knocking me over (he didn't even ask if I was ok) and he said I shouldn't have walked in front of him. I said I hadn't, he said I had, I told him to fuck off. He walked off, so I got to counselling alone and didn't know if he was coming or not (he turned up just as we were about to start). This didn't bode well.

We didn't talk about my hoarding, which was a shame as I was prepared for that. Instead we talked about what we say when we argue and I mentioned that we bring up past issues. Counsellor asked me what those were.

Big mistake. Mentioned how I felt about the run up to our wedding (and what happened on the day), which I've never got out of my head as they were very hurtful. He completely kicked off to the point where he was practically shouting at me. Said he'd apologised enough, I hold grudges and need to let things go, why did I marry him when obviously I didn't love him, I hate his family etc etc. Said I was pathetic. If I didn't like it I need to go to a solicitor.

I burst into tears, didn't say anything for the rest of the session (was sat with my head in my hands). Counsellor sat and watched, said nothing. Session finished, see you next week counsellor.

Mum was looking after DD so walked home in silence in the rain (I didn't have a hood which didnt help my mood). Tried to be smiley for the rest of this evening but can barely manage it.

^its important to let go of the need for him to see he is ea, as he will never see it, so why can't I do it? why do I drill want him to see I am not nut,?^

it's hard, he's still in your head, he will go gradually and you will let him take responsibility for himself and you will be able to choose to buy the blue top because you like it without reference to what he would prefer. It takes time, and a little mental effort to work out what you think.

if you find your validation from other sources (your friend sounds great) his will become less important.

Nini, still wondering if you can do counselling just for you. this is not helping is it?????

maybe have a little look through your posts and make a big real life list of his behaviour....cut and paste....tell us what you see there.....

Fool, I am having counselling for myself still via work, but sessions are only every couple of weeks (as strictly speaking I've already had more than my allocation). It's the only lifeline I have in real life right now.

I know I need to copy paste what I've written here since arriving in May. Think I don't have the guts

He's acting all Mr Reasonable in front in my Mum tonight, but I can't even bring myself to look at him, let alone talk.

Nini, how absolutely terrible - what was your counsellor playing at?!? You poor thing, what a verbal bashing to endure.

Notice how he tells you when it's time to accept his apologies (without reference to whether you've seen a change in him since), like he tells you that if you walk in some undetermined wrong space, what pain you suffer is your own fault. It's controlling, belittling and a complete twist of how things should be in a fair relationship, isn't it?

Funny how he then tells you to see a solicitor. What are your thoughts about leaving at the moment?

You're right Charlotte, the 'I will tell you when my apology is enough' is very evident and classic Lundy.

Whenever I raise any complaint he always says to go see a solicitor in a 'like it or lump it' kinda way. In april I lied and said I had in the hope it would make him see sense. Think I will actualy go now. Leaving still isnt practical yet.

Feel so tired so gona crawl into bed. Maybe clarity will come tomorrow.

sad for you nini that sounds just awful. The counsellor didn't say anything atall? The counsellor asked for details, you complied, he got cross, and started name calling, counsellor says nothing?!?! Think counsellor has just had the perfect opportunity to see the dynamic at work that you have been suffering with at home. Be very interesting to see what is said next time. He has demonstrated his lack of control very clearly! If your counsellor doesn't draw attention to this next time, would you go again? Pretty sure I wouldn't!

take care

thats all I can manage tonight, but I am thinking of everyone else with their troubles tonight, just have much difficulty going on here.

CAB emailed me back and they say I should continue to update them of the situation, but best I don't make any contact only await contact from him. due to situations over the years and particularly recently I think I will be thinking of contacting sservices and listing issues of drinking, abuse, neglect, putting dc at risk, and now also systematically trying to destroy relationship with me by wicked messages into dc, I swing between thinking they will jump in, to completely ignoring it! I have a couple of friends who are social workers, one in my area, have already confided in them, but haven't yet asked what the reaction should be if I got them involved. It is all a headf@@

Hi i've posted on here before but not for a long time. My abusive ex left 8 months ago and in that time i've got court orders and the contact arrangments have been sorted. I had to change solicitor and they basically didn't believe me about him being abusive and refused to represent me unless I offered him contact and dealt with things between the two of us.
Social services were involved because of the concerns i raised but that all ended last week, due to everything going so well. I always knew he was only being civil and treating me better because of their involvement. The court orders still stand but he is under the impression they don't.
He is beginning to treat me the same way again. It's not the same because he doesn't live here and I am safe physically, but i'm still feeling really scared.
Nobody is interested so I was hoping to find some understanding here. I've worked so hard to be free from him and build myself back up again, but it feels like it was all for nothing now

Hi AMI...I remember you. you have done really well. Don't go down into that pit of despair, you have done great. Remember that YOU are in charge, the court is still there and so are we.

They don't give up being twats just because we don't live with them any more...but at least we can keep them out of our homes. And remember SS are still there, the police are still there. have NO TOLERANCE for bad behaviour and let him know it. He may get worse (mine did) but if they do others see it and support comes

Thanks Shriek, no the counsellor said nothing. Not a bit. But even at that point I'm not sure I was really listening anymore. I don't want to go to counselling next week.

Sorry to hear you're suffering from spaghetti-head too [hsad]

Amitola, I remember you too. Sorry to hear your FW is still being a shit. Agree that you need to stand your ground and hopefully your new solicitor can help you more. Maybe venting here more regularly will help get things off your chest too? [hsmile]

Oh Nini, that sounds just awful. I agree that the counsellor isn't helping at all - maybe, as Shriek says, see what's said next week after this outburst, and if it's not mentioned or dealt with, reassess whether to keep going - you are just laying yourself open to more abuse. (But even if it is mentioned, I doubt it the counsellor will say anything like 'that was unacceptable, you know that don't you?' [hsad] So even then you probably wont get much help from going.)

I can see you getting more and more trodden down by this whole situation. I know you've said it's not practical to go yet, but is there anything else that could be done? Could you speak to WA and ask for advice, suggestions, etc?

Shriek, hope your headf@ck is a bit better today. You do seem to moving forward, that's a good thing in itself.

Hi Ami, can you go back to everyone - SS, police, court, new solicitor - and ask them what to do if it all starts up again, explain your concerns as you have done to us? You've come so far already, you must be strong and keep going.

So, I had a strange and lovely weekend.
I met up with friends that I haven't seen properly for five years or so - largely because they are DS1's dad's sister and her husband! I was best friends with her (A) for four years before me & ex got together (so I knew ex for years before we DTD), and her husband (R) was my housemate and they got to know each other through me bringing him along on nights out etc. Before ex & I split, we were all very very close. After we split, I think it was inevitable that we couldn't stay friends - A obviously wanted to support her brother, and in the end it became too hard to stay in contact. But when I went down for their Mum's funeral in March it was like I'd only seen them last week and I realised how much I missed them.
We spent the day in Glasgow at a museum, the kids (DS1's cousins) had a ball running about and they met DS2 (who was suitably well behaved) and we just chatted and laughed all day, and in the end they all came back to my flat for takeaway before heading off in the evening. I realised several things.

1. I haven't laughed much recently. I laughed all day. At some points I was doubled over.
2. I felt comfortable and secure in their company, in a way I never have with NSDH.
3. They have been married for 11 years. I want their relationship. While neither of them is perfect (I've been round both of them a lot and know them inside out - they both have a bit of a temper, but one that gets shared with everyone rather than just reserved for each other). They both have their flaws. I've seen them argue and huff at each other lots over the years. But they are equals. They share sorting child discipline equally. They are not afraid to f-up in front of each other. They are obviously still very good friends and enjoy each other's company immensely.

To me, it seemed a model. I know them both, so I know things aren't perfect between them, there's no fairytale. But it just seemed to work so well. It made me both sad and happy - sad that it's so far from my relationship with NSDH, who is certainly not someone I'm a 'friend' with. And happy to see that two ordinary people can achieve a good (not perfect) relationship.

I felt like myself all day, haven't felt like that in ages. Wish they didn't live so far away. About 5 minutes after they left, DS1 announced he was they'd gone. I was too, and still am a bit, but am also happy that I've reconnected with two people (four, including the kids) who were so important in my life before. It feels like a gain.

Nini that is awful. But could it be helpful because the counsellor has now seen how he behaves?

Can counsellors be called as witnesses in divorce or dv cases?

Curtis so glad you have had a good weekend and got back with some old, good friends. I had similar feelings to you when I spent an evening out with some friends (h didn't want to go) and saw how good their relationship was, and had a lot of laughter, and yes, felt like myself.

Things seem to have moved up a notch with h. More words - showing how controlling he is - I stood up for myself but this just escalated the argument. Apparently if I wear clothes he doesn't like, or don't wear clothes he buys for me (knowing they are not my thing), I am doing it to get at him personally. Yeah, right. And all sorts of other things I don't want to share with anyone. I felt strong for standing up to him even though I lost a lot of sleep subsequently. This means I will fall asleep in the evening with a cat on my lap - and if I do that he will "throw the cat off you". But if he falls asleep in the evening that is different, of course. It seems that if I stand up for myself it just pushes the arguments and threats (not physical) further.

But this has made me think that I need to up my preparations for the eventual split. I would like to try to see a family law solicitor. How can I ensure I get a good one? I don't have anyone in rl I can ask because the people I know who have divorced recently all know him too, and I can't risk him finding out. What can I expect to pay? I am conscious that I must stay in the black financially and put some money away if I can.

Trying to be rational and logical but I really just want to be back in a good relationship.

onthe parapet - interesting that your H didn't want to go, did he say why? Maybe he couldn't bear to see you enjoying yourself! I am extremely glad my NSDH wasn't there yesterday, my enjoyment of it all would have been vastly reduced. It was just little things - I said to A, did she want to come back to my flat for takeaway. She said yes straight away without needing to check with her H! [hshock] It's hard to remember that we are the exception, not the norm.

Your H controlling what you wear is a big red flag, but I guess you already know that. Glad you are starting to stand up to him, if for no other reason than it makes you feel less like you are getting walked over.

What about going to CAB or something like that? I looked online at the solicitors in my area, looked at their specialisms. Or maybe WA could make a recommendation? I'm not sure about costs etc, I get legal aid because I'm out of the situation and not earning much on my own. But lots will do a free half-hr session to give you information. I might be wrong, but I maybe you can claim divorce costs back off him? Not sure how that works though.

Hello everyone. Not posted for a bit as was that somehow haven't managed to go despite being absolutely certain that I would. Have had an email from H today at work. He texted that he'd sent it to make sure I read it. Am really that he's sent it when I'm at work, trying to be professional etc.

Just want your thoughts really. Here are the edited highlights - it's 2 pages long.

"I am not letting this family fall apart ...DD needs to be part of a family unit and not passed from one parent to another"

then a bit about the sacrifices he is willing to make to be SAHD.

then " I believe, even if noone else does, that I have the potential to achieve much"

"moving on to us. Your comment about my loving you again if you were thin is a little naive. It is the whole person that counts and whilst you knowing that the issue of weight was a key fear of mine and you doing little about it for 2 years there are other factors that I need to come to terms with."

"I somehow need to accept that you will always choose your family over our family"

this comes from him hating my mum and thinking that me speaking to them every week or so is excessive.

"finally to learn that you are slagging me off in emails to your mother" - but no mention of him being in the wrong for reading my emails.

"I know that this is my issue and I have toaccept your position on this to halt the downward spiral that we are on but you need to be patient with me and acknowledge that this is really difficult. I will never like it I know"

"If you want to divorce there is nothing I can do to stop you filing ... but will contest it"

"You have been having a lot of late arrivals home recently and overnight stays and last minute changes to your rota. Even if you are having an affair this would not change my stance outlined above"

I have NEVER ever ever even looked at another man.

So how should I respond.

So far I've just written a short pollite reply saying that I am not able to deal with this whilst at work, it is not fair to make me read it when surrounded by colleagues, that I am outraged by the affair section and that I do not think staying together for DD can be the only reason.

Help needed please

Do not reply. Do not tell him anything until you have seen a lawyer and sorted out finances and an exit plan. Take the email as well as all the other documents to the lawyer when you start filing for divorce.

kimberlina - !!!

Apart from any of the rest of it - backhandedly accusing you of having an affair!! Just awful. And so random! And for him to say that if you were, that wouldn't change any of his stance - why not? Is it because he really has so little respect for you that what you are doing and thinking doesn't matter, all that matters is what he wants, which is for you not to leave?

I wouldn't respond at all. You don't have to. He has chosen to contact you, if you reply, that's up to you, but he can't make you - although he thinks he can, he's trying to force you to engage with him, to respond to his nonsense criticisms and thereby draw you into his world. Don't address a single point, because it's all bollocks, addressing any of it gives it a grounded point in reality. Ignore it all. I know you'll be itching to tell him how wrong he is, how it's his doing not yours - but that's what he wants. the minute you start engaging, he has you again. Affect an air of 'couldn't care less'.

Don't worry about not having left him yet, these things take time, you need to work on your own schedule. But start now as you mean to go on with him, don't engage just because he says you have to. Remember the mantra: detach, detach, detach...

The thing about the weight: You should lose weight when I want you to, but even if you do, it won't be enough to satisfy me because I look at the whole person and there'll still be something else I'll go on about. (disguised as 'of course I'm not shallow - see, I'm talking about the whole person')

Look on the Resolution site - there is a lot of info there about divorce and some good lawyers - as I said upthread, I picked a woman who had graduated a couple of decades ago, likely to have dealt with all sorts.

Quick replies. Thanks. I knew I'd get some sense here. And need to have some idea of what i'm going to do/say when I get home tonight.

Yes the affiar thing has really struck me. If someone I loved had an affair I'd be devastated, could not imagine looking at them in the same way at all. The fact that all he has said stands whether I have or haven't really shocks me more than that he thinks I might have done. It really makes me think that he just does not care what I do and who with provided I am still 'his'.

The weight has also really upset me. It was one of the things that made me realise that he is EA so he kind of shot himself in the foot there! The more I lost he'd still (grudgingly) say that I was looking better but not there yet. When I said I weighed less than pre-preg he then started spouting how fat weighs less than muscle ( ) and it is only when my thin day clothes were loose on me that made me think he cannot be telling me the truth now. I KNOW that I am thinner. Although in fact all I want is someone who loves me for what I am regardless of size

The first line 'I am not letting this family fall apart' has upset me too. He obviously sees that decision as his and his alone. The whole letter has no love or warmth in it. It is basically that DD needs 2 parents that are married so we need to stay together regardless what. At no point does he mention that he loves me or actually wants to be with me.

Am wondering if I should go and talk to my parents with this email. I think they suspect that all is not well. H would see this as the ultimate betrayall. I have never ever mentioned any issues between us but I think they have picked up on little bits. I know it would irretrievably damage their relationship (but he has hasnt spoken to them in 9 months). They would be the people in RL that I've mentioned anything to. WWYD?