Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Ex has told his sisters. One of them just rang to get my side. I told her I didn't expect her to side with me over her brother, but actually she just kept saying "Oh my god!" or that she didn't know what to say. Sigh. I don't need this crap, explaining my decision to anyone else.

Oh noooo Match that is exactly what I dread when I leave - I feel for you, I really do. Its hard enough without having to explain to everyone too - especially FWs side of family. What did you say? Did you tell them all about the EA etc or just skirt around the issue? I'm afraid everyone will think I've lost the plot and am the one in the wrong, moving out, taking his kids from him and so on as my FW is so 'nice' and popular outside of home. I just don't really see myself telling everyone what has been going on for the last 13 years of my life - i don't know if I could, or if they would even believe me as hes so different out of the home.

He keeps turning everything around on me and now tells me in front of kids its up to me to turn this around and keep our family together, I'm causing all these problems - anyone would think it was me going on drink, drug and lady of the night benders hey! He is deranged!

It's amazing isn't it how they can turn it round to be our fault....

FW has told me that I'm the one that's breaking up the family...he seems to have forgotten that he is the one who has lied, manipulated, abused, degraded, criticised and humiliated...

I've just managed to escape for a few days away with DS.... i have to say the relief of being away from FW a bit overwhelming...

And Pony can I just say that what you wrote about choosing not to live like that struck a real chord with me. You have a brilliant way of phrasing things.... X

I was speaking to my counselor about the issue of telling people a few weeks ago - I had previously still written out birthday cards to people who I hadn't told, and put whole family on it - me, NSDH, and all the kids. I was nervous because I'd just put me and the boys on one card, was dreading having to go into it if asked, even though they're good friends I just don't feel able to launch into it with people who aren't close by to support me or who don't already know. She helped me with a simple phrase - 'We have separated'. Sounds daft, but I felt liberated! It was so simple, I was overcomplicating it overworrying. It is all you have to say, it says enough. You don't need to justify yourself to people.

And thanks bertie - it's something I've been thinking a lot about recently, and trying to get my head around, it links in with what fool said yesterday about even if I could go back and he was changed, I'm not sure I can get over what's happened, so maybe I can't change myself in the sense of not caring any more about what happened. It doesn't matter how much I want it to happen, how much I love him, how much he loves me: I just am still struggling to get past some stuff - and lordy knows, NSDH was only minorly PA, so I really don't know how you get past it if it's even more. And as fool said, which made sense, if you go back in still reacting and expecting abuse because you can't get past it, then eventually he'll react as you're expecting, and I don't want to live like that, I really don't. Had a big chat with DS1 yesterday, he admitted he didn't want to go back and live at the house with NSDH but didn't like to say to me in case I did want that and I was upset that he didn't. Bless him! Could've cried listening to him - he said he didn't like it at the house when NSDH called me names like 'stupid' and all that, it wasn't nice (if only that's all he had called me... [hshock]!!!).

But v v glad you & DS are getting away for a few days, hurrah and huzzah!!! [flaps bunting] You'll come back refreshed. Enjoy it! I am meeting up with old friends from where I used to live tomorrow, and their kids, and I can't wait. (My friends are also DS1's Auntie and uncle and their kids are his cousins - sister & BIL of my ex - but that's actually by the by, a happy coincidence!)

Oh that's horrible match, think you said the right thing though in not expecting them to take sides.

Pony I hadn't even thought about the etiquette of it all with cards to people and what do you say. I was wondering today about family photos. We're not a family anymore so it's weird.

Hilde I hope you're ok, same to everybody else.

My update, i think I might have successfully ended it (or at least i'm really hoping!) was so scared of FW coming here after being away 10 days, so I texted him last night asking what his plans were, I said personallyi don't want you anywhere near me, but the dc's will want to see you. He said that he was going to stay with his brother and that he will find somewhere else to live and will see the dc's next weekend. He is shellshocked that I went to the cab. I thought it was a mistake that I told him, but I thought I needed to let him know that I'd had legal advice to confirm that a vengeful parent (him) cannot take the children away from the other.

I have bolted the front door though just incase!

Ordered Lundy Bancroft's and Beverley Engels books from amazon, they were supposed to arrive today, was really looking forward to finally reading them but theydidn't arrive even though the parcel trackig said they'd been delivered. Phoned amazon and totally cringed when they read the book titles back to me! [hblush] Should get them Monday [hsmile]

Hope you all have a nice evening everyone

I explained that I had left as he had hurt and terrified DD. Also that I was too young to live like this any longer. That nobody should ever be called a fucking cunt by their husband. She didn't try to defend him. When I picked DCs up he said he'd maybe take them over to see his sister and explain about 'the whole debacle'. He seemed peeved when I pointed out she had rung me before him.

fraggle, well done. It's a huge step, and you've taken it. Shame the books haven't arrived yet, but enjoy your Saturday night just relaxing. But don't relax regards FW - he sounds like he's going along with it, but I bet that doesn't last. Be ready.

Matchsticks - they are all pretty damn good reasons. I've been called that too, and you are completely right. No husband worth his salt would call his wife that.

Appears to be a favourite insult by FWs then! I've also been called that lovely name. Regarding sending cards, think this is one of the reasons I was putting off anything until after Christmas [hhmm] how pathetic am I?!!

Had a bit of a wobble earlier...have been trying to ease DD (3yrs old) into what will be happening over the next few months, was explaining about a family we know whos mum and dad live apart and the kids live with their mummy but still see their daddy etc etc....and thats what happens...she then said if we did that she would stay with daddy and mummy and *(DS) can go to a new house and she wouldn't want to come with us.....oh god what am I doing to her little brain? Or what has HE done to her little brain? Any tips on how to handle this situation going forward??

Maggie, I know it's awful to hear that. But you are right - her daddy has been dripping poison into her brain. I wonder if perhaps she has realised, despite her tender years, that being on Daddy's side means less shouting from him. But what she is too young to understand is that would soon change if she were the only one he had to give out to.

Maggie, are you sure there is not a risk she would say something to her dad about what you said to her?

In my experience, at 3 years old they wont remember much going forward. DS1 doesn't remember us moving to Scotland (when he was 3). He's now nearly 7. He adapted seamlessly to life in a new place, going from seeing his dad a couple of times a week to once a month. But he speaks to his dad daily, that makes a difference. I facilitate this because my ex doesn't make trouble for me, he makes it easy, he's laid back if he can't get hold of us on the odd night, etc. Your kids can retain a good relationship with their dad. But that becomes up to him. You can't stop him being the awful FW he so obviously is, you can only protect them from the worst of it by removing them from the situation. They might say that don't want to right now, but I guarantee that in 20 years time they'll thank you. This is one of the hard things about parenthood, doing things that you know is for your kids' best interests, but is not what they would choose.

Thanks so much Pony for the good advice! You are very wise x

Further proof of how my head has been messed with: washer in my new place moved across the floor on a spin cycle ans gouged holes in the lino. Rang the landlord who was fine, told me not to worry and that the main thing was that nobody was hurt or anything. Y'know, like a normal person reacts. I am so used to panicking when anything goes wrong because I would get a bollocking that I expect that response from everyone.

that was helpful to read pony. am gng thru v similar stuff to alot of posts above. time out away from home to look into family law options, and have got to point where blocking him is the only option for sanity and peace.injunction probably as a safety net for now. then residency apllic. also had that horrible stepping on eggshells feeling, if i had done something he might dissaprove of, thats no way to live is it?1! he was happy to spend £30 plus a week on booze ( every week that is , sometimes more out of our shared benefits, which unfortunalty went to him for a long time ) but not for me to do preganancy yoga and i had to scrimp and scrape to get what i needed together for early baby days, going to charity shops, etc at a time when i wanted to prepare with enjoyment .It wasnt the pregnancy i wanted or the early days either. they rule with fear ! at some point you have to take control back or you would go insane.reassuring to think that dd wont remember too much tho i suspect the emotional imprint is there forever ...maybe with some healing and time we can change that too...

hi all, had a much neeeded 24 hr break.

Are you safe Yummy? and hopes that all can help their dcs through the learning around these dreadful abuses by FWs.

I think the stronger and more steady we are as mums, the more obvious the difference will be, so that when mum treats with great respect and not abusive DCs can see when NRP parent does it and then comes to mums to ask for help and we can help them manage and learn how to deal with it, seeing it for what it is. I really enjoy those moments where dc notices differences and queries them with me and has just today stood up to him!

I would keep things very simple for 3 yr old and see what questions come, that tells you at what level they're at with it and will reveal the things that worry them in their world. There are some really good story books out there to help children understand living differently, and comparing with other families to help adjust. She will probably feel so much better with all the tension gone!

I agree, there is no need to justify. I know it can be hard to face what people think, but we don't have to justify and yeah, we're separated, is all thats needed. If you don't want to say anything, listen to yourself and don't put yourself through more by putting yourself under pressure to 'explain'.

Your friends are the important ones and they understand whats really going on.

take care all

Evenin' all. Depressing day here. We were half an hour late leaving the house this morning because he wouldn't get ready despite frequent reminders until it was actually time to leave. All went quiet, then "You do know I've been ready for 10 mins and waiting for you?" then he disappeared again (prob to brush teeth which doesn't count as getting ready), reappearing to say, "Are you still not ready?" (since we didn't have coats and shoes on, not knowing how long he'd be) "I thought you were waiting for me, but I've been ready for 25 minutes now and you're still not." [hangry] at expecting me to get the dcs ready (he "doesn't know what's involved" - ffs), no support, constant criticism.

We had the same verbal dance this evening about getting dinner on the table. I had ds clinging to me, so couldn't do much to help, but because I was reacting jovially (waltzing to the music with him!), he had to do all the situation-twisting again that the meal's ruined because of me. Not that he said it was because of me, it was a general rant at the family and clearly stating that he was in the right and everyone else was in the wrong. I said a meek, "Sorry I spoilt the meal," and that seemed to be the appropriate repsonse. I was detached and observing, so didn't really believe I had spoilt the meal, but a bit [hsad] to be observed like that by dcs, who didn't know it was a false apology.

Still, it's nothing compared to what you have all faced and escaped from. The worst I have to complain of is lack of support, even the criticism is implied not spoken directly. There's never any bad language and he treats most drivers worse than me (although that's behind their back!). It's not abusive, is it? He's just very negative, on another planet and a creator of chaos.

I think he thinks of himself unconsciously as a benign dictator - superior to us, clearly, but would never admit it cos that's not PC. And if we don't follow his wise advice or requests, he doesn't retaliate - just whines and complains. A pretty weak controller!

Sorry for all this garbled stream of consciousness. Still stumbling around in my own personal fog!

Charlotte: still abusive, disrespectful and careless of others...not different form most of our situations really . EA is difficult to pin down precisely because it looks so trivial ...death by a thousand paper cuts was a phrase coined by someone on here a while ago...excruciatingly painful but difficult to complain about coherently, especially as we mostly minimise when we are in the relationship (coping strategy).

Much love and virtual chocolate.

Thanks, fool - you are so right. Still going to be arguing with myself for some time to come, I think. Interestingly, today's unpleasantness comes soon after I told him that the counselling is useful as it is helping me see how to move forward without expecting him to change. Because he isn't really trying to and doesn't think he should ("Controlling? Nothing wrong with that! And you can control me in certain situations, too." ), but I'm sure he took it that I now don't think he needs to change. He's probably feeling the relationship's more secure now, so maybe I'll be seeing more of his true colours...

Hi ladies,

Charlotte I think your fw and mine have been egging eachother on.... that's exactly the script I face every time we go anywhere as a family (haven't actually done that for a while, though). It's an assumption, it's entitlement, it's arrogance, it's contempt....but it's SO hard to pin down as fool says.

The blow up with DD and FW a couple of weeks ago - I feel I need to jot it down and share before it disappears in the mists of spaghetti...I was downstairs, heard shouting upstairs from fw and screaming from dd (but angry argumentative screaming iyswim). As I stood there, I heard her shout "ow" in a different tone of voice, shocked, physically hurt kind of voice. I rushed upstairs to find him looming over her and her crying. She shouted to me, "he hit my head"- I've made it clear to him and the dcs that "clips" to the head are wrong, illegal, potentially dangerous and very demeaning. So she was reporting to me, in a sense. He was white hot furious. I know what had happened - it would have been a brushing type clip but that's a line he cannot cross and I have made that clear to him. But in his book it is different and he screamed at her for "getting him into trouble" - (with me? what a joke, like I have any authority with him, but anyway). He then smacked her on the bottom. I went in and sat beside her on bed as immediate physical barrier, but his white hot anger was frightening. I tried to defuse by staying calm. He screamed at her "you are a liar" repeatedly while jabbing his finger towards her. I told him "this language is abusive" repeatedly in a calm voice because I was worried about physical explosion. He eventually went away. I sat on top bunk with dd who was crying hysterically. I calmed her slowly and told her she is special, wonderful. After a long time I got her to relax, made her hot choc and put her quietly to sit and read in spare room where my dm was staying (ie fw wouldn't enter that room). Dm didn't know anything until I told her because this was all upstairs and she was downstairs with tv on, with ds.

OK there it is, on record. I am right to leave just on that basis, aren't I? Second viewing on flat tomorrow. I am right not to brush it under carpet as lawyer suggested, aren't I? Lawyer wanted me to not mention ea etc but that is the core of why I am leaving. If it was just an unfulfilling relationship I would not be leaving.

I think you're absolutely right to leave on that basis, trying - and it isn't an isolated incident really, anyway, is it? You were already concerned about unhealthy family dynamics, about his bad behaviour. Don't know about lawyers, but I see your point and I'd feel like that, too. That's why I'm still here - not sure it's EA yet.

Trying: I think you need a different lawyer. call your local women's aid for a recommendation. It makes a huge difference if your legal is in your corner fully. Especially if you think he will contest it/spin it out/be difficult over child contact/financial matters.

Yes the above is abusive and wrong. Was his anger really white hot? When he left the room did it take him ages to calm down, or if a policeman or vicar had arrived would he have been able to appear normal?

have you considered involving social services? It has been a useful for me to have direct child abuse on record. if you are in the process of leaving then they are unlikely to do anything except open a file...you should probably talk to school too. If your DD discloses this they will be obliged to inform SS themselves and it will look a lot better if they can say you told them and are in the process of extracting yourself.

hi , im ok thanks shriek, im at my mums. fw knows where i am but locks on flat changed so he cant get in chat laters

Morning all.

Charlotte, agree with fool, he really is very abusive. In Lundy, there is a description of an abusive situation that really, really mirrors yours, about a man deliberately making everyone late but then it gets turned around onto his wife. He is doing it deliberately to control, manipulate and upset you. That's abusive. I know you are doubting it, but it is, and he can't be allowed to carry on treating you like that, he has no respect. And the driving thing, raging at other drivers - NSDH did that, I hated it, I felt it was symptomatic of his lack of respect for me that he thought he was so always in the right while driving, and anyone making the teeniest mistake got called a 'fucking bitch' really nastily. Unnecessary. Plus it scared and upset me. But he didn't care. That's not a loving relationship.

And you know what Charlotte? Even if he isn't abusive (although he is) - it doesn't matter what it's labelled. If you are deeply unhappy and feel it's not a loving, secure, happy, nurturing relationship for both you and the kids, you are more than entitled to leave, end it, separate, get out, whatever. Just because you feel it's not as bad as other people's experiences, doesn't mean you should still have to suffer it. You are a good person, you deserve to be loved and happy.

trying, that's awful, poor DD. NSDH did that 'head clipping' to my DS1 a few times in the early days, as a punishment/telling off, seemed to think it was acceptable (no!), I set him straight. However, he's still 'rough' with him sometimes. And I've been clipped by NSDH like that too (while pregnant), it's awful, and, as you say, really demeaning - it wasn't the pain of it that brought tears to my eyes, but the shock of it and the shame of being treated like a naughty child.

Yes, you are completely right to leave. On that basis, and on the basis of everything else. And also because you want to. That's all. You get to choose whether you go or not, because it's up to you. I agree, get another lawyer. One that I spoke to was an DA specialist, it was on their website that they dealt with that, and the lawyer I spoke to had dealt with many cases before and was very knowledgable. You cannot brush it under the carpet. It's the whole reason for you leaving. It affects his contact with the kids too. I agree with everything fool said (as usual ), get his treatment of DD on record somewhere, maybe a word with her teacher to see if they have noticed a difference in her behaviour, or speak to your health visitor if SS seems too scary.

special mention to Trying - just awful [hsad], but you were SOO strong to stay detached like that and keep putting your point across quietly.

I agree your lawyer needs to go! definitely stay away from someone who wants to sweep under carpet - unless there is some very good reason for the benefit of dc's/yourself, which we are not privvy to.

take care.