Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

oh no Hilde sorry to hear of these exchanges and his attempts to completely assasinate your character. I for one think it is an extremely good thing that I never saw/heard any of the stuff my ex assasinated me over. Not sure I would have coped at all well with that. I have come to realise over time that he is saying such dreadful things, and is standing by whilst others denegrate me to DC, which they are really struggling to cope with and find very depressing. It is hard to hear others speak bad of us, but we know the NSDHs think extremely badly of us (that's the problem!). Hard as it is they will trash us to anyone prepared to listen, just take it as that, and that only. Its just more of the same from him. It LIES and you can ignore them. I did think, on a positive note, that it was cool that she'd detected he was trying to 'force you into a corner'. Also, v. cool advice from fool - use that info and feed into it . Manipulate it for your own ends. Now you have good knowledge! and you can 'feed' her info about how much stronger you are and how you know he's trying to force your hand and its scaring you cos he's so forceful and raging, etc. or whatever you feel appropriate to the situation for the best outcome.

nini sad for you for all those horrible memories and loss of DS1 baby boooks. All your things are safe now? Enjoy your therapy session [hsmile]

no.. oooops, sorry, that wasn't for nini it was for pony who was replying to nini

Hilde YOU ARE RIGHT. No contact (I personally think even the work contact leaves you very open to problems).

He will be reading "the cosmo guide to getting your relationship back on track" or something similar...ie a relationship based script based on a normal relationship that has gone wrong. He won't be reading bancroft (thank goodness)

Hilde although it is horribly painful to read what FW and FWSis are saying and to realise she is not your friend but a mole, what an insight it gives you!
And how odd that he doesn't seem to realise you can read it all. He must want you to at some level.

If I were you I would be pulling away from her now and looking for other confidants. But you can still spend time with her telling her how you are benefiting from time apart and how you realise now how he has caused your mental distress with his behaviour. I would be tempted to press her about the confidentiality of your chats and watch her squirm! But I am a bit evil!

I wouldnt care what he reads or what any book says. What matters is your gut feeling and your instinct about what you need. That is the most important.
I knew I needed to keep away from FW for my sanity. And still do!

Curtis very sad to hear how your DS's baby books were treated. I would have cried too . My NSDH's attitude towards my things is similar to what you have experienced. As lack of respect for your property indicates a lack of respect for you! Example - he treads on my stuff if it happens to be in his way, drives me insane. Basically, my hoarding background is due to my Dad who used to throw away anything and everything of mine he thought was 'useless' (including an 18ct gold & diamond ring my Nan gave me as a kid). It was horrific. NSDH hates that I'm a messy person and that he can't control it, when I've always been like this and am actually a lot better than I was. Anyway, I have a list of things on this topic to discuss next Monday so we'll see how it goes. My counsellor has told me to be firm - since this is ME, and I shouldn't be afraid to say this is WHO I AM.

Evil FIL will be going out for a bit with NSDH and DD tomorrow so at least I will have some peace. Unfortunately FIL will hang around until the bitter end and sponge dinner off us probably, the wanker. On the flip side I've been told I have to take DD out somewhere on Sunday so NSDH gets his 'me' time.

hilde, agree with fool's wise words, perhaps this could be used to your advantage? I totally understand how angry this must make you though, how patronising the way they were discussing you!

agreed fool - there is no stopping this kind of behaviour (from what I've found out so far with bitter experience). The only way is complete non-communication. He will always find way to load his stresses and angers onto you, and to weedle himself into a conversation with you for his own sick ends.

hilde - foolonthehill is so right. Use this new found knowledge to your advantage.

shriek just wanted to pop in and say thank you so much for your kind words yesterday about my guilt. It made me feel soooo much better and stronger. Can't stay long now but will be back tonight

Also H is being all so reasonable - 'how do I want to sort out splitting up', 'do I want to involve solicitors' .... he's looking so sad and sorry for myself I'm starting to feel guilty. Not that he's said that he doesn't want to split. Presumably he wants me to beg him to stay how I've done before?!?

OK sorry back now...had to disappear before I had finished posting....

The bev Engel book is the one that some abusers programmes recommend because it is

1. non gender specific,
2. even handed, accepting that abuse can be one partner or both partners to greater or lesser extent
3. shows abuse and it's effects without being overtly blaming.

It starts with the premise that these are learned behaviours that can be changed and that as a couple you can get through if you are both committed to long term therapy and hard work. Engel (as a counsellor) has a vested interest in demonstrating that talking (her modus operandus) works...and in fairness her book concentrates mostly on the EA relationship rather than the abusive and controlling man/woman...what is missing is the ENTITLEMENT that Bancroft so aptly describes. Her book looks at learned behaviours and seeks to change them, she does acknowledge that some people are not committed to change and these cannot be helped by talking, she also accepts that personality disorders and such cannot be helped and that even in the best case scenarios only few people choose to do the work to change.

now What does this mean??

Do you remember that bit in Bancroft when he describes a man on the programme who twisted the programmes recommendations so that his partner believed she had to spend more time with him to help him heal??

This is what your DH is doing....using things and people to his own advantage

Diagnosis...still a Twat, still no change.

I think there is a point in a separation where you feel that you have a full knowledge of where this will end...even if you are not prepared yet to declare it out loud or do anything yet.

There is a point in time when we see the FW as fundamentally broken. Frankly at this point even if he was zapped from on high and became perfect, the relationship is not salvageable because we have been so damaged by the years of abuse. To return to him would be committing to a relationship where we could only think and act in the old learned patterns and therefore he would return to the FW behaviour that has served so well before.

Do not feel bad, or that you are unreasonable if you reach this point...he has not even taken that ultimate warning (being out on his ear) and made himself act in an acceptable way. You know he could if only he would, he does not treat others in the way he treats you.

MAD....we've all been called it. I am currently having a "mental breakdown" I see many of you have completely unreasonable "times of the month" when your sanity is questionned.

If he loved you, he would protect your mental health....

but as he is such a catch you absolutely MUST be mad not to be with him....welcome to the mind of the FW.

kim yes he thinks he has you caught and that the reality will overwhelm you and you will not go through with it.

PS bet his "reasonable" really isn't as normal and reasonable as all that.

wow...going to crawl back into my hole for a while...haven't posted so much in ages.

love and strength to all.

Hooray for Fool and her wise words [hgrin]

Oh hilde, I am so angry on your behalf. He's a massive FW!
Although it gives you an unambiguous window into what he really thinks that you would not get any other way, as horrible as reading all that must have been. The fact that he's talking about 'this nonsense' - he may be walking the walk, and attending the abuser programme, being nice to you, etc, but it's all just for show. He doesn't actually believe any of it, still thinks this is just you being silly and he hasn't done anything wrong.
And how can his sister be saying all this when she knows the things he's done to you??? You have the measure of her now. That's valuable.

But I love fool's idea about using it against them. Do that.

How does that make you feel in terms of going forwards with this view that if he sorts himself you could work on things? Is that still where you are?

What is it about them that thinks 'talking' and 'communicating' will magically fix all ills? That's what my argument with NSDH was about - he asked me again, after me saying no last week about meeting up for a chat/nice ordinary conversation. I said I didn't think so, wasn't really sure, no, actually, I didn't want to (I'm still flinching if he gets too close, no way I could stand a relaxing 'chat' for an hour). He asked me if I'd think about it, I said I would, he should have left it there. But he kept on, and on, until we'd been discussing it for about 15mins and there was more of the same when I picked the kids up. I was frustrated and annoyed, and (admittedly) not a small bit snappy. He apologised later for pushing (which he finally admitted he'd done, having denied it earlier), but it's this constant doing then apologising. I'd rather he didn't do it in the first place so he didn't have to apologise. I've said this before, but he's an idiot, because as I said I was missing him, if he'd held off for another week or so, chances are I would have caved...

[hblush] small bow and exit stage left

Wow, fool, standing ovation!!!!! [hgrin] That's all amazing advice, I actually feel it working on me too...

As well as being obviously unstable due to monthly hormones, I have been called a 'psycho', 'mental', 'crazy' at other times too. I was once threatened with being sectioned (while pregnant), have been threatened with him 'calling the doctor' or my mum numerous times, and a few weeks ago, he told me he was going to call an ambulance (because I was crying). It's rilly, rilly not me that's mad!!!! (well, I am a bit [hgrin]!)

What is it about them that thinks 'talking' and 'communicating' will magically fix all ills?

Amen to that Curtis, the idea of us 'communicating' more is the only thing NSDH can come up with to improve our relationship. Well, that and cuddles. And me not being so moody during my 'time of the month'. [hhmm] And gare, it's the doing then apologising that pisses me off. Just don't DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

*agree, not gare [hgrin]

I have been having a bad day, and I'm going to go away and reread everything fool has just said, especially this bit: Frankly at this point even if he was zapped from on high and became perfect, the relationship is not salvageable because we have been so damaged by the years of abuse. To return to him would be committing to a relationship where we could only think and act in the old learned patterns and therefore he would return to the FW behaviour that has served so well before.

I went down town for my retail therapy, but it wasn't helping. Lots of happy Christmas stuff and 'To my wonderful Husband cards', had to exit stage right out of M&S, it all got too much. Then I bumped into NSDH's sister! The one that got married a couple of months ago. This is only the second time I've seen her since I left. She was lovely, gave me a hug, we chatted etc. After she went I just felt like I had a big hole in me, that if you stood in front of me you'd still be able to see all the Boots Christmas displays behind me. I trudged up the road with it all going round in my head - should we be trying to make it work, should we just separate, what to do, what to do... But I think fool's wise, wise words give me a bit of clarity. Am going to mull and ponder. Hmmmmm... [strokes beard, which is long and silky]