does it ever work with a man who's 'Out Of Your League' in many aspects? (sorry, long)

[allchangeplease]

I'm wondering how much does confidence matter in these situoations? If you had success with a man you (secretly) looked up to, was down to sheer confidence, or was it flattery admiration that worked?
A bit of a backstory. I've contacted this man on a dating site, I REALLY like everything he said, the photos (no Greek God but really appeals to me), he also (!) included a photo which was published in eligible bachelor section of a glossy albeit years ago , though he doesn't look as good now - he made a funny comment about that, and if you are wondering, it wasn't that that made me interested, I noticed the fact later in his long intro. He is obviously talented, he is a publushed poet, he states that he is comfortable financially and I just love his sense of humour AND his voice recording. He sounds kind and not dull like so many online guys. He also does sound very confident behind the humour. I was like that as normally I find very very few men online interesting and worth contacting and none so far compared for me. I know, I know, he may be an arsehole with issues in RL, as he never got married and he is approaching 50. But I want to meet him at least.
He hasn't replied to me first time round, so I wrote to him again after listening to his voice once more, thinking that it was unusual for him not even to ask questions, even though I haven't ticked some of his 'potential partner' boxes, but normally men like my photos (nothing revealing or overtly sexy) and at least attempt some dialogue. I felt I wanted him even more as he is a challenge. He said he'd prefer a woman with English as home language while I'm foreign but spent all my grown up life here, he also said she needs to be in or near London when I'm not, though I do visit quite often. He also wants someone with a good stable social circle which really I don't have as i didn't study here and just have a few friends, not a 'network'. When i wrote to him i explained that I know I'm not 'perfect' and then asked him, the second time, whether he is sure he doesn't want to meet. He now replied with an auto reply that he will write to me when he subscribes. It's very easy to sunscribe so you can send mesages, if anything you can do so for a week for under 10 pounds, it's been two weeks since mu last message and a day or so since his reply. Obviously he is not that keen.
Do you think it's worth pursuaing or eve nmeeting if he does reply? He is a bit on a posh side with his speech and looks, I just worry that English guys like this are really snobsat heart and even if attracted to a woman, just wouldn't see her seriously as LTR partner material? He is not the only example of a man I'm attarcted to but don't 'push it' out of this lack of confidence/cynicism. I always hide the lack of confidence by playing cool if met with lujkewarm response, or with just physical interest, but deep down I want to be braver and try a pushy approach. Did this ever work for you, when yo knew that socially and possibly financially he is of higher status?
Is it worth it or not, as even if you gain his interest you may have to prove yourself for a long time to him and his friends etc.? I do admire Kate for being so thick skinned what with the sniggering from William's friends, before he proposed. Yes, it's nothing like as this 'high up' in my case but on a smaller scale still applies.
If it did work for you, do you think it's because he just liked you and you didn't actually put any effort i.e. luck of the draw, or did the efforts you made paid off, and any advice in this case? Is it justa case of being brazen and forgetting about all the issues?

that's what I mean Liz, they don't tick 'over 35 box' yet can't find anyone younger - but it's understandable if they want lots of kids. It's all to do with that. In rl they some do look at me but most men are married around 35-40 so I often notice a wedding ring, and obviuosly some who look are not attarctive to me, so absence of ring doesn't help. The two guys in RL I reallly thought 'wow' about were both married. Having said that some 50-55y.o. look young for their age so I'd be fine with that. But then you need a personality match so still needle in haystack!
dysfunctional hahaha. That should be easy at least!

geegee really? that's usually a teenage technique here what did you say to them at the station?

Have you tried Parship? I know that all of the sites are much of a muchness, but they do do a personality test. I ended up clicking ONLINE with one guy. So, although I didn't fancy him in real life, I really had to take my hat off at the compatability test. This guy who got matched with me, we were both working in social work areas, we found the same things funny... the only problem was, when I met him, I just knew I could never in a million years .... you know..... :-[ so If I did that site again, I'd be brave enough to put up a photo and combine the gut feeling from the photo with the compatability test.

I am seeing somebody at the moment. I didn't meet him on a dating site though.

allchange "does your wife know you stalk women on the motorways?" I wasn't happy. They were probably only interested in my car. As I say, bleurgh. I'm sure I can't be the only person this has happened to.

I think American men are very direct, and expat is American, so I'm wondering if American women are also more direct and if there's a little bit of reflection going on. You are direct yourself, men are direct back. Or they run and hide! one or the other!! I'm not that good at being direct. ALthough I'd never deliberately be vague or coy either if that adds up.

Liz, so how did you meet him, I wonder? good luck. Well I'm quite compatible in interests/outlook with the last guy I've met through site, you can tell during messaging, but also didn't fancy him, and he looked worse than the already not so good photo but i was ok with it, just old for his age (more like early 60s!).

Liz, ah ok! yes Americans aer just more approachable - they look around and talk luuder, smile more, and maybe men feel very safe to approach them. I'm not deliberaely coy but I'm definitely not direct - I can flirt quite well but it's still discreet rather than in your face friendliness. Once I start talking and getting involved people are surprised as I'm warmer than I appear. Still I do get looks it's just most of the men aren't single or too young. Recently I thought of asking a young guy out for a coffee (met through work sort of) as wouldn't ask me as a client but we really got on and I could see he liked me, he was a lot younger though, late 20s, so I decided not to go there, maybe I should have done but what for really, a bit of fun?

I think part of what holds me back is fear of being labelled desperate. there is hardly a worse accusatiion! I have had people say to me in the past, 'go for it, ask him out!' but I've been too scared. I think maybe I could have handled one rejection, but two, omg, the mind boggles. And, in theory it sounds very pro-active, less passive, more carpe diem to be the one who is going about asking men OUT, and that might work for a certain type of woman, but I kind of suspect that in my conservative coupled up world ... asking a guy out to the cinema, or another out for a coffee, that could earn you the label 'desperate' in my neck of the woods.

I wish I could be more impervious to what others' think.

Right that is decided. We move as a mob, hunting down men as and when they are needed. For sex, for jobs and for the tricky process of romance. No messin' and no stress. Ready, girls? Mine has to look like Bernard Cumberpatch and I am sorry, but he is mine.

Oh dear, this isn't going to work, is it?

Liz, yes I had similar reservations before but I have asked a couple of men out and although rejected, this was for the reason that they turmed to be married/with GF, so this didn't feel like a personal rejection but still I was building up to it and disappointed though not a bog deal of course. You do get desensitized but it's still unpleasant tbh, though some women don't have an issue with asking men out at all and it even works for some. That's what i meant earlier about brazen confidence and always thinking 'his loss' but I haven't quite reached that stage. I do have my limit, and only can do this occasionally (hard enough to meet one you want to ask out anyway). I think the young guy would have said yes as he doesn't look like he's married and he liked me, but in this case, he's just too young for a relationship.
Punk I know BC is very bright etc but is he really that good looking? something strange about his nose and mouth proportions! you can have him .

sorry, 'turned out to be'

allchangepease, what you would make of it if one of the other men who's profiles you'd looked at and dismissed, questioned you as to why? Would you admire his persistence, or would you find it irritating?

My other thought was that it is odd for this man to dismiss you on the fact that you don't have English as your first language if you have lived here for a long time and are obviously fluent. That would put me off if I'm honest.

I have friends who use dating sites and have talked about their experiences, the open rejection would be too harsh for me!

yes, it's a funny old world. i wouldn't fight you for bernard cumberbandpatch either. odd face he has. for an actor. i htink if i saw him in tesco i'd think 'he's striking' but he's not good looking enough to deserve the hype and admiration he's receiving at the moment! although, 3/4s of it is his own agent and PR i expect.

I've asked RL men out (or been on the verge of it) several times, and it's always ended in disaster. I still cringe over one at uni who after spending weeks flirting with me, picking me up and carrying me on his shoulder down the street etc, said that he HONESTLY never saw me as any more than a friend. Then there was one I worked with who confessed he was still in love with an Ex, or another who was a friend of a friend who when I offered to take him for a drink for his birthday (not even tee-ing it up as a date, just being friendly) said 'No I don't want to' by text, and I have never heard from him again.

Would it put me off asking anyone else? No. Would I actually expect them to say yes? No, not really given the above catalogue of failure

shockers, they do sometimes, if they persist and ask me 'why' I calmly explain, they usually thank me for it so that they can move on. Obviously if they persisted beyond that I could block them but it hasn't happened. I only wrote to the guy twice, first was just a normal approach message as he actively invited people to write to him (not one of those who has to initiate with women, few are like this online). Yes, it has put me off from the point of view of 'having to prove myself' if it ever came to meeting, that's what I was really asking, is it worth it. Probably not. I agree, open rejection is not nice but when i reject someone I just explain diplomatically ( that we won't get on based on his interests or that I'm not who he describes he wants to meet as a personality - even that i ve met someone and want to see how it's going so he doesn't feel rejected).
Liz, you are not an admirer of B C either? we seem to have a lot in common . I can see though why he appeals to many, he's mentally sharp, and he's elegant. But the face is odd, especially in profile. To me he is also too cold, I like a bit of charm/expression in a man's face.

The 20yo you met through work and you wanted to ask him for coffee but you didn't because of the age etc what if you went for a coffee as friends and suddenly his brother passed by, a 42 fab man. And then there is a party next weekend or a gallery opening etc etc thats how you meet people imo. I think when you 'are looking for a man' you become too occupied by doing maths all the time and you miss out on meeting people. Best imo, is to meet people, friends. Lots of them. Like when you are new to a country and you chat to many people to make friends.

hatesponge, at the last one, charming! Yes, i relate to this as these attempts always leave a sour aftertaste, even when not personal. One guy ageed to go for a coffee and i was really looking forward to it for a week (there was no build up, I just met him once but was very taken) and then he told me last minute that he's married and his wife won't like it! (er..really? I thought she would like it!), I asked why didn't he say at once he was married, he said he didn't want to say 'no' as it would upset me - how big headed again? no it wouldn't upset me as then it's not personal, but it did upset that I've been excited about the date for nothing! guys aer very strange sometimes. They aer always flattered it seems, and don't always say No just to prolong the feeling. Agree though, not once did it leave anywhere, whereas with those who asked me out, it did often work.

he was late 20s, not quite 20 Laguitar! yes will make an effort just going out now that autumn started, I've joined a language course too. It's just all went qwuiet in summer. I'm also on another infrequent course but they are mostly older women there, not that forthcoming in making friends, even though I will keep trying. I really didn't want to do online dating but my friend really pursuaded me with examples of success she knows. I'll give it a couple of months since i subscribed.

I meant 'not once did it lead..'

Ops yes sorry

Ok I shouldn't be telling you this as its just encouraging you but here you go if you really want to meet this bloke.

Remove this guy from your favourites list, as that way you are changing the existing status quo of you chasing him and him thinking about should he respond or not. There is a reasonable chance that this will pique his interest enough to contact you to ask you why you have done that.

At this point be bright and breezy in your response and say that he seemed nice but some men who were closer to where you live and younger have been in contact and as he didn't seem that keen you thought it best to take him off your list. If you have got that wrong and he does want to meet up then you will be in london on such a such a date for work anyway so you could fit in a quick drink or coffee.

Has an outside chance of working and yes it does mean that any relationship would be built on lies but life isn't perfect.

Oh and online dating is not a bad way to meet people at all, but you do need to have a few on the go at once and not invest anything at all emotionally until you have met them.

OP I don't know where you are originally from, but certainly where I am from we also have class-divides and the younger you are, the more where you come from, where you live/grew up, which school you go to, which educational path you're headed to etc. is VERY important and also unspoken, it's simply there...

In my experience, men with so-called higher social status do not care about where the woman is "placed on the social strata", for lack of a better way to express myself here, you will see tons of examples all the way up to the Royals, not only in the UK, where this did not matter.
And trust me, their so-called social divides are much more apparent than what i could imagine would be the issue you're describing.

If you're after living 20 years in the UK, are a British passport holder, are White etc. then I don't understand why you are still having this inner sense of being so different lower from them.

If you feel this way about yourself, I would almost like to guarantee you that you will be the type of person/woman who will attract loads and loads of twats, abusers, controlling types, etc.

Do you have a sense of who you are? What you want? What you would like to share in a relationship?

And trust me, men who maintain the belief that after a certain age they are childless and never married die to not having found the "right woman" usually are very 'difficult and lacking'.

OP it seems that you are indeed trying to "pull" a certain type. There are agencies, books, and circles where you could learn how to "pull a certain type".

Twat is twat regardless of social standing, I fear you might be not seeing this, is that possible?!

Just come back to this thread - it's got really long!!

Had a skim and this really stood out from OP:

it's only been a week of me thinking why hasn't he replied

I'm surprised no one else picked her up on it. What a waste of a week's thinking.

God point. Op is not so easy to read for me, very long and lack of paragraphs and too much detail, but am intrigued by this topic and all the discussion surrounding it, and am wondering why OP has not picked up any of the suggestions and viewpoints. Seems very stubborn and closed-minded...but maybe just very "determined" ???

worldcitizen, sorry I will use paragraphs etc, but it's unfair to say I haven't picked up any suggestions and opinions! I said a few times on the last few pages that indeed probably he is not for me, and it may not be wort meteing him even if he eventually suggests it. I also said in the original post, and since, that he may well be an arse in real life, and a very good actor for sounding so appealing and that the last thing I want is a twat, I added in same post that after all what matters if whether you can rely on your partner (and be loved) not the social status.
Of course I do know that there are twats in every group, I've seen many, but I'm saying that I'm attarcted to the nice sensitive souls from educated background, it's MY type, I can't help it. I'm quite a strong personality and bossy men don't appeal to me so no I can't stand comtrollling men for more than a very short fling! I was much more susceptoble in my 20s to being impressed with success, I don't want wealth now, but I do want a nice articulated guy. The poet sounded kind and funny, not JUST posh, that's what was different from some other posh guys.
I do not think I'm much lower than them, but the fact remains that I'm not as socially confident due to lack of the network you build up during school and University and partly parents in the UK. They pick up on it, they often actually asked these types so I kind of avoided them pretty much as I don't like to be judged on that, I'm afarid It's their mentality and i'm not happy with that at all. Not everyone of course, but many. I wasn't in a relationship with this type of guys for that reason, I usually went for those who just love me or respect me anyway. But it does remain as some sort of challenge, maybe I should indeed just forget about it and never try. The examples you make about women marrying 'up' are quite rare and usually based on these two people being thrown togehter in some situation (like Kate flat sharing with Will as a student) or the man is very young and open minded/aternatively old and is after beauty having had children with a suitable wife. I was AMAZED to hear from a guy in his 20s though, who was after me, that now he's looking for attarctive women, but once he marries it will be a posh suitable wife. It's yukky! I don't know why i wanted to prove somehting to them, but to be fair I newver perservered as my pride suffers. But this was before, I don't just target guys like htis at all, he just sounds different to eveyone being poetic, but maybe he's not really. I definitely am not going to keep chasing him, that's for sure.