Huffy, illiterate men, scared of peas, it's a weird, weird dating world (No22)

[ChaoticismyLife]

Oh, watch...you mentioned flowers

Tell us more...

Sponge I think alot of men, especially if they are in lower socio economic groups, are going to feel in someway inferior or emasculated with a woman who has the 'trappings of success'

often the less status a man has the more status conscious and easily threatened he will be

Western It's a long story - I'll try and keep it brief I was brought up with no money in a council house, but my parents were not at all stereotypical working class (other v long story). I did brilliantly at school, but never fitted in (too 'posh' and stuck up for the local boys). Then went to uni - and among the Eton/Winchester/St Pauls educated, I didn't fit in either, was too poor and too common for all the rich, middleclass boys I liked. Law school, and working in the city as a trainee was the same.

I dated one fellow lawyer when I was 24 who treated me terribly, although made me see myself as desirable and sexy (prior to which I always felt pretty, but in a princessy, non-sexual way), so I started to dress differently, be less stuck up, and surround myself with builders, electricians, plumbers etc, who then liked and were interested in me. And that's where I've stayed. Most earn similar amounts to me tbh, but don't have a 'professional' job. So there's less of a financial disparity than one of status iyswim.

I never thought it would be a big deal, it never mattered to the Evil Ex or ones before him - but certainly for the EE, he never thought deeply about anything tbh. The men I have dated recently are not as dense as him, and maybe therefore more aware of these things....

sorry that was such an epic!

Well this is where I start banging on about feminism again I'm afraid. Men are socialised into being 'providers' if a woman is more successful in areas that they see as important (house, job, money, car etc...) then they can feel intimidated ('she doesn't need me') & ultimately emasculated. People do tend to form longer term relationships with people who are broadly socio-economically similar... I am a tiny bit in awe of the prof because he is hugely successful, so it won't work out... (i recognise this goes against the grain of women being socialised into expecting that their partner will be the provider.) This is, to an extent utter blocks and an 'old fashioned' way of thinking, but its still there. The point is to find an evolved man who loves that you are 'successful' in spheres that matter to him.

No word from the prof today. Meh.
Loads of texts from PM. Cinema tickets booked! The green dress is being sniped... I would rock that nun-costume, I would make it filthy ;-)

Sponge. Totally understand that It's not just about money.
I'm caught in the difficult position of being bright and educated, but skint as hell doing a duff job because it fits in with my life at the momment.... So there is a huge disparity between what I am and what I have at the momment... And I know for a fact that has been an issue in the past.

But I Think This is where the sense of self thing comes in, you know?

I'm with snape and find myself too in awe of someone too sucessful to actually date them, it's too unequal for me..... These men might be the same?

Snape, yay for pm. Boo to the prof. And Hurrah to green dresses

The green dress is MINE!! Hurrah! £16! :-).

Funny, I was thinking about this stuff too after my meh date this morning. Ok, the guy couldn't hold a conversation and maybe if he'd had a brilliant sense of humour or bags of self-confidence I would have felt differently but I've decided I definitely prefer smarter more successful men. NOT because I give two shits if they have money or nice cars (my XH bought me lots of expensive jewellery and still turned out to be a twat). But because I know that I'm smart & well educated and although currently unemployed, want to have a decent career again at some point. When I was in school I always felt like such a geek. I had no confidence or self-esteem. Until...I started hanging out with other people who were smart and had similar interests. Suddenly I could be myself, and that made me feel sexy and confident and like someone that men would want to be with. The two guys I've really hit it off with so far (including Mr60) liked that I was smart and funny. They got my sense of humour, they didn't stare blankly at me when I said I liked Lost & Dr Who instead of BGT. So, i don't know, not really sure where I'm going with this....just seemed topical and wanted to share some stream of consciousness rambling.

Snape yay to the green dress for £16, tho I'm quite sure you could have rocked that nun's habit too.

Now we're getting somewhere.
Maybe they see you as posh bird after a bit of rough. Have they all been scaffolders/builders/plumbers. They probably think you are well out of their league or will ditch them when an equally posh boy comes along.
Sorry if that's too blunt, but after you've licked your wounds a bit it's time to cast the net wider!

Yay snape, bargin!

Yoga, I understand that. It's only the last 4 years ( interestingly after I split with my ex husbabd, a soldier) that ive gradually found myself and my niche as it were... I know what sort of people i .' Fit' with And identify with......

So, sponge, maybe, Urgh, I dont know actually... Just, It's difficult, And there might be something in it.

Watch I didn't know I had a type till I started dating! It's taken a while.

Not just in regards to men though, kind of with everything.

I think everyone has a valid point sponge. Men in the past have told me they i must have dumbed down to be with them, and these were pretty successful in.their own right. I put it down to their emotional incontinence.
I could lose my job in the morning given the current climate and it doesnt define me but i know im inquisitive and street smart which makes me a challenge.
today on the train the man next to me was constantly checking his pof inbox. I tried to strain my eyes to see his username but i couldnt make it out. He had a few messages and i was dying to see what he wrote and what his settings were and if he had messaged me. If he had i wouldnt be interested now id sat next to him!
Had a lovely talk with an electrician from essex this morning.

I am still seen as posh by all these men. When the one on Saturday first phoned me he said he couldn't believe how well spoken I was (I'm really not) However people who do the job I do think I am a total chav. Make of that what you will...

Since my mid 20s I have dated van drivers, forklift drivers, electricians (inc the evil Ex), plumbers, carpenters, tilers, gardeners, general builders, scaffolders, roofers, a policeman (the lovely Ex), mechanics, soldiers, in fact anyone in a general 'manual' occupation.

The ONLY exceptions were:

1. A current colleague who I had the briefest liaison with 3 years ago;
2. The Barbour (date from Feb this yr) who is a project manager and whose family live in virtually a stately home
3. MrPlayer, who works as a surveyor.

But I very rarely get approached (whether on sites or in RL) by what you might term 'professional' men. I don't have the right look - see what my peers think of me above . My friends used to joke that if I went to a bar in the City, I'd end up with the one bloke who didn't work in a bank/law firm etc...

Snape..the dress will go down amazingly well. you are the same height as me and i have a ff boob. its only recently ive embraced my height and boobage and its because i see other women like me. growing up i was always the largest.

sponge. if i ever need a lawyer im beating your door down!

Sponge - who is "everyone"? And what evidence do you have that they think you're a total chav? Because if it's just a couple of shallow eejits that's different...

Snape - You're gonna be a pig in shit. This could be The Night

Hi all. 21,214 messages! Who'd have thought? Don't mind me. Just popped in to cheer Snape on.

Snape - Hello sweetie.
Stay the course with PM. You're making incremental progress on a long journey that will lead to you and he sitting drinking white wine in the sun in 30 years time reminiscing about your time together. Trust me - I'm the doctor.

MadameO it's a lot more than one or two people, it is practically everyone I come into contact with professionally. When I worked in the City I was viewed as nice but a bit common. That hasn't changed over the years. I don't fit in to any of the ideas of what lawyers should be.

You're a lawyer? Dating tradesmen? Sweets, no wonder they think you are out of their league! As for your colleagues, FFS, how snobby and shallow

Um I realise that my own comment looks snobby and shallow. It's honestly not meant to.
Fuck I think I'll just start chewing on my foot. It's been well stuck in my mouth for most of this thread.

Oh sponge I totally get where you're coming from on this. I did a lot of work on modulating my accent and I do sound much posher than my background, but I slip into 'Peckham' quite easily. It's very difficult, because sometimes you feel like you don't fit in anywhere. I can have a bit of a chip sometimes because the people I mix with at work are all 1st class degree Oxbridge, I didn't go to uni, I was a teenage carer for my great-aunt-with-Alzheimer's. That said, I find the 'best' people don't give a shit and actually think I'm pretty amazing once they manage to get close enough to find out about my background. I think you need to get out of plumber-mode.

Selected PM text interaction of the day.

Me: I wish I was just a bit more normal sometimes
Pm: I don't.
Me: what, wish you were a bit more normal?
Pm: no, you. You'd be boring.
Me: :) I wouldn't. I'd be endlessly, beautifully fascinating. Like Victoria Beckham. How awful would that be.

Made me smile, so thanks poppa' nice of you to pop in. And the rest of you, stop posting happy stories of platonic men becoming husbands. You're raising my expectations.

Hmm, Sponge... how do you get on with professionals outside of law?

Well, Mr Controlling turned out to have lots of other red flags flapping about him, so I have now dumped someone for the first time in 20 years. Thanks for your advice, ladies. My twat detector seems to be working perfectly, I just need to remember not to keep pressing the manual override button every time an alarm sounds.

Snape, dress is beautiful, and a bargain! Pm would have to be blind not to notice the looks you'll be getting in that.

Coffee man sent a message to say "Thanks for meeting up today, will chat next week when I get back :) xx" .....Meh (the coffee was very good though!)

Irish/American guy wants to know how I am. He really doesn't seem to be getting the message.

Hmm. Impromptu beer with PM at half eight at his instigation.

My profile seems to be attracting a high% of grown arse boys of 40+ who think it's cool to wear a baseball cap backwards. I'm a little concerned about the vibe I'm putting out dressing/posing like the Beastie Boys wasn't summat I considered cool even back in the day. Is this normal?????

After my experiences with my ex, the LAST thing I'm searching for is a man-child. He at least dresses like a grown up. Is it OK to just delete them with no response?

Can someone take a peek at my pof profile via pm & tell me were I'm going wrong pretty please?

On a more positive note I've just asked a normal sounding bloke if he'd like to hit a coffee shop one lunchtime next week. So I've broken that pyschological barrier of putting myself "out there" (twas a bloody big mental barrier to leap over I can tell ya!).

Well done bochead. Doesn't even matter if you like the guy or not, having done it once you now know you can do it again.

(and yes it's ok to delete without replying!)

MadameO :) honestly don't worry - it takes a lot to offend me! Apart from the 3 mentioned I haven't had anything to do with 'professional' men in any sort of romantic sense in the last 15 years. It's not a recent thing AT ALL but I think maybe when I was in my 20s it was less of an issue than it is now.

I've always though I only appeal to a certain type of man, lawyers/accountants/professional men I meet tend to think I am stupid and pointless - I wear (not all the time) false eyelashes, fake tan and stupidly high heels. I love crap like TOWIE and Jersey Shore. But I've also read more books than I can remember (4 last week alone), speak 2 languages and have a law degree from Cambridge - ok, only a 2.2 but no-one's perfect .

Snape impromptu beer with PM at 8.30? This could be the night...