Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

trying - I left him a note. Not an accusatory note, just one saying sorry, things are obviously awful, we can't go on like this, I love you but I have to do this. (the first one I wrote wasn't like that... ) But the fact that I had gone to my parents' house, only a few minutes walk away, i thought that might tempt him into doing something. But instead I got phonecalls (I didn't answer) and voicemails and texts, pleading with me to come home. That was almost worse than him being all scary, it broke my heart and took everything I have not to go back right away. But within a few hours, when it was obvious I wasn't coming back, the texts changed tone and I felt a bit better because there were a few nasty ones, and I could go: aaaaah, now I remember why I left, righto, on with the plan!

I do think that your FW was being deliberately hurtful with his comments - you're right, I think, that he sensed you'd given away a piece of information that he could use, why do they do that? Why is every evidence of vulnerability like a commodity to be used against us? But I think your response was wonderful. Bet it threw him right off kilter!

FSOF - Far Side of Fuck! I lurked on these boards for a long time before I left, soaking up information and recognising myself and my situation in lots of the posters, and I know Bibi used to send a lot of FWs off to the FSOF, hopefully never to be seen (or heard from) again. I need to get me one of them tickets.

cantfindamnnickname - hi there. I'd read your other thread already, and I do think your husband is controlling. Good luck with your mortgage, you've been very strong and determined.

Aw nini Im so sorry as well to hear about your exam, but you had so much going on, so hopefully you'll cut yourself some slack.

I'm struggling to keep my head straight atm as nsdh is being very nice to me at the moment. And I feel awful for seeing cab Thursday. He's promising me all the things I want, but now I'm thinking I want them....but not with him? I've also told him that I've been trying to save our relationship for years, but with no luck or serious change from him and that I've been at breaking point so many times before. He told me that this time will be different as this time he's at breaking point and so committed to saving it. I feel though like why should it be saved noe, when its when he's decided it needs it, and not at any point through all the years if me saying it needs to change has he bothered it cared. Why is it more important because he's at breaking point instead of me.

I feel so confused, tiered, torn, anxious (thanks anxiety disitder). Why is this so hard. I don't want to put up with an unhappy relationship, but what if I regret it. Arg!

I've been looking for more information on co-dependancy, prior to my next counselling appointment tomorrow. Found this really interesting page:
mindfulconstruct.com/2010/07/09/end-a-codependent-relationship-the-healthy-way/
I can tick at least 9 of the 14 (not 12 as it says) signs that you're relating co-dependantly. I'm definitely onto something here for myself! I think part of my dependancy issue with NSDH is the fantasy life that we have, with him baking cakes, growing veg, playing games with the kids while cooking a fantastic dinner, blah, blah. It's all too good to be true, from the outside, and of course the reality is different to the fantasy.
Interesting as well that it says that the push to finally leave will only come through my own anger - I've got a lot of anger in me at the moment, and I don't know how to deal with it. I like this:
Your anger gives you the fuel to reclaim yourself after you?ve continually given yourself away.
So. Must find out how to connect with my inner anger.

Anyway, just wanted to share that.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone. Feeling very down right now. Keep meaning to catch up on everyone's posts but struggling to see beyond myself right now. Really sorry for that. But good to hear from Bibi that there is life on the other side.

Part of me now feels resentment towards NSDH for my exam result - all the "You spend all your time studying", "Why are you studying so much" and "No I'm not heling you with the nursery pickup/drop off so you can attend classes, do it all yourself". It's very dangerous for me to think like this as I know it isn't really his fault, it's mine.

I've been interested reading about those of you who have been/gone through separations - right now I'm thinking that's what I need. But I know if I asked him to he'd refuse to leave. I read that some of you have just upped and left yourselves, but what to do in my situation - no family or friends anywhere near who could take us, and I will NOT leave the cat behind, he doesn't like her and I dread to think what he'd do. Any thought?

Hugs to all.

pony thank you for your responses - I was thinking about going to relatives but mine are a way away - though I have one about half an hour, so could temporarily go there and commute kids to school for a while, it would work logistically with work. The other thing I was thinking was accepting family help previously offered and rent somewhere for six months and see what happens. For sure I can't afford it but I also can't afford to get sicker and for my kids to be destroyed mentally.

I like FSOF idea.... Is there an super-charged express?

cant - just read your post. I agree with Pony. Your husband sounds like mine, just with some differences (mine doesn't drink much but still does the behaviour). The whole "allow" thing made my blood boil because mine has tried that on me, too. TBH, I think just the fact that we're on here says it all.

Pulledintwo, please stick to your guns. I went back and forth like that for 8 yrs! They promise the earth but they DO NOT change. My ex always said he'd change when I tried to leave, I'd believe him and also somehow get convinced to give up whatever job I had at the time. He was just trapping me, making me dependent.

Leaving is utterly amazing. Do any of you have a permanent tight chested feeling? It's like constant nerves, hope you know what I mean. Anyway, if you do - it goes! Not straightaway (as I expected) but over time it does. For me the best bit is not having that constantly anymore (I still get it when I have to talk to him though )

Leaving is hard but so worth it

Now please, please can someone direct me to a page that explains all the codes you guys use so that I know what everyone is on about!!

nini I understand what you're saying. If you go, def take the cat, without any doubt. Shelters take cats, I have discovered or arrange to foster them until you're on your feet (I found this out while looking for my own info, don't mean to imply that's what you'll end up doing, but it's good to know there's a safety net that includes the beloved pet.)

Nini also, you say the exam thing is your fault - but with respect, I really disagree! He carefully and systematically undermined your attempts at success, which is what fws do. It's not your fault! There's inner strength in you that shows because it made you study for and take that exam. He sensed this, felt threatened by it as they do (FW syndrome) and undermined your attempts. But that strength is still there, despite the set back and you will achieve your goals; the fact that you're trying to shows this.

Pony you go with the inner anger! I sympathise with what you're saying - FW and I look great as a couple from the outside too and the people I've told have been flabbergasted. But maybe that's part of our enablement of them? That we need to construct our careful version of "happiness" and they subconsciously know this and therefore know we won't kick off like other people because of our need for our precious house of cards to stay standing?

nina it is sooooo not your fault what u needed was support from NSDH and you got the complete opposite.

I want one if those FSOF tickets please Bibi xx

Evenin all

Thank you all for the warm greetings, late to the party as ever (life never does get any slower does it and I only have fur 'children' god only knows how you do it with real ones to look after)

I so wish I could scoop up all of you still fighting and show you the happy future that waits for you, free of all of these terrible fuck wits.

Nini - I have been following your story mainly with a face. That you had the strength and drive to study for your exam with all of the abuse and manipulation leveled at you is a testament of your incredible strength and determination.

This will sound incredibly patronising no doubt but I read once that exams are merely a test of how you retain information and are able to reproduce it on demand and I do tend to agree with that.

Yet we are 'trained' from an early age to see them as some kind of judgement as to our worth as people (like so much else in life)

You will pass as soon as you have some head space to live and be yourself again I'm sure of that.

Lemon - you made me laugh with your 'party' comment - the place is 'jumping' here what with the violin music and the herbal tea - more like a pensioners rest home, no wonder the cats like it

"I need to get me one of them tickets"

• you get to boot the jackass onto the train yourself with this one, via a steel toe cap boot firmly implanted in the part where the sun never shines!

pony - I get the anger bit - I am so angry with h I can barely look at him, I want to scream at him and tell him what a wanker he is for the treatment all these years and its not bloody good telling me your sorry now and your going to change. ITS TOO BLOODY LATE.

I wont say it though because Im still in the same house for the next few weeks, he is tiring me out, going from being nice to nasty within minutes. Telling me he will be my friend one minute and then he hates me the next and im a bitch, Im breaking up the family and its not going to be easy without him, Im going to struggle, Ill have no money, wont be living in such a nice house. BUT I WONT BE WITH YOU SO I WILL BE HAPPY

aarrrggghhh morning rant - I hope that makes me feel better

hugs to ebveryone else struggling to make a decision - I had a session with a counsellor and I was amazed at the clarity I felt when I left the session

I did scream at mine and called him a wanker, for not Doing Any Work or Earning Any Money while I struggled with house and work. I was so angry I was literally foaming at the mouth! Some spittle flew on to him. 'Don't spit at me' he said. So I gathered a mouthful and spat on him! Unfortunately DD was around and heard me, thus confirming in her mind that her mother was a loon.

I apologised later. But what about that nice sidelining by H, eh? He didn't address anything I said, merely goaded me into spitting on him, and despite the apology he kept bringing it up - though of course not the issues I was having a go at him about.

In my mind, I have taken back the apology

I have to dash off to my counselling appointment, but just to log on quickly to say a few things.

Silver - glad you've taken the apology back! He's not worth the air you expended on it. I've felt like that, I chucked his dinner in the sink one night, in front of DS1, because his subtle put-downs just tipped me over and my anger spilled out unconstructively. My own behaviour, my own fault, I apologised repeatedly, but all he could talk about was how awful I was to have done it in front of DS1 and how upset I'd made my son (all while I cried hysterically - the whole thing had been about him being awful to DS1 in the first place).

Nini, completely agree that when your head is in a better place (ie without him), you'll pass no problem. Before I met NSDH I was trying to build up my writing, had even written a (bad) book, but had a routine of writing for a while nearly every day. Since me and NSDH got engaged (4 months after we met ), I don't think I've been able to write a single word of fiction, my head has been too full of reality. You'll do it. If there's no-one nearby to go to, why not rent somewhere, then when you get the keys you can just announce 'I'm moving out' and go, with DD and cat and all.

Bibi, thanks for my ticket. I think I love you a little bit. And your comment about the fur children made me laugh so much I sprayed my laptop with nutella toast!

Anyway, I've been thinking lots about my possible co-dependency and about various family situations (that I haven't talked about but maybe will later), and I have had an epiphany - I married my sister! Anyway, off to counsellor to dissect it all.

Good luck with the counselling today Curtis. Your story about writing a novel resonates with me, before I met NSDH I was close to completing my first novel, since then, in the last 9 years I havn't had a chance to do any writing because of him.

And thanks again to all for kind words. Even without having to retake this exam I still have another 2 exams and a dissertation to write, so it's not that simple. I havn't told anyone in RL that I've failed yet, I'm too ashamed. And I especially don't want to tell NSDH as he'll do a patronising 'you'll pass next time' talk (while smiling smugly) when all I want to do is yell at him for being so unsupportive and damaging my chances of passing. And you're all right, it IS partly his fault. But it's really not worth telling him that, he'll only get angry and what's the point.

Maybe this is now my lightbulb moment. I need to make my exit plan. Renting another place isn't possible - our mortgage is high so he can't take it alone, yet the house is currently unsellable. Thanks to him I'm also in debt with no savings so have nothing. I will start doing research into shelters that will take us and the cat, and I've signed up for alerts on Rightmove for places I could afford to rent if I had no mortgage. If I can just wait it out until next year when the fixed rate on the house ends...but doubt I'll survive that long. Plans must be made.

Silver, sorry, your spitting story made me giggle

Very interesting link hilde. Under the new guidelines, I suffered domestic abuse from my Dad for my entire under 18 life.

Pencil underlining....I still go through my LBancroft to remind myself why I am where I am from time to time...it's good to be sure it's real.

I think what the freedom programme really got home to me - I 'knew' this already from the great Lundy, but the freedom programme somehow hammered it home - was that there is NOTHING - and I repeat - NOTHING in a FW that tells them their behaviour is wrong.
I am feeling increasingly unsure about the counseller I saw over the summer. One of the last things she said to me was that she was sure that FW knew how awful his behaviour was, and that this knowledge would hit him hard - eventually.
This DID NOT resonate with me at all.
It took working through the Freedom Programme for it to really sink in just how justified/entitled/plain right these dangerous fuckwits KNOW they are.
There can be no dialogue - no truth and reconciliation - ever :(

Hilde, my NSDH also told me it was good to let my anger out, while making a big show of utterly forgiving my transgression. I too felt I had given away my moral high ground! I too struggled to put down Lundy (glad you got a copy, btw), felt it was so important that i finish it. For the next few days it was all I thought about, even when i wasn't reading I was thinking about it all. Yes, it's exhausting.

fingers, are you doing the online version of the Freedom Programme, working through it at your own pace? I've thought about doing that.

Do these men have any idea? Is it calculated or do they honestly believe they are good and loving husbands?

Yes, I'm finding it all exhausting hilde.

nickname, can't speak for everyone but my NSDH certainly thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread, hence him telling me that 'everyone thinks there's something wrong with me'. Because he's so utterly perfect and I'm a madwoman.

He emailed me earlier with how much I 'owe' him financially for the month. I told him I wanted it broken down into exactly what went where (I've been doing this lately so I have written records). His response was "We must get a joint account to save us all this hassle. Too much suspicion and doubt."

In other words - I'm questioning too much? And he can fuck off if he thinks I'm getting a joint account now.

The night before last he was eating a biscuit in the living room and dropped a big chunk on the floor. He saw he'd dropped it and left it there. Later that evening I noticed he'd trodden in it and it was now a smooshed mess on the carpet. I asked him to clean it up. He didn't. I saw this morning that the biscuity mess was still there so swept it up in a dustpan and put all the crumbs into one of his shoes. Was that bad? It made me feel better

Am snorting with laughter Nini! He's an entitled FW! Sometimes, you gotta do something a bit different to get the message across...

Glad I gave you a giggle, nini, and now you have given me one

I don't believe my Ex thinks there's a thing wrong with him. But he has turned into the Great Unknown. From his divorce settlement paperwork he is either delusional or a liar. He has never done a charm offensive either, I doubt he would have a clue how to do one.