Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I'd happily share [choc] with you hilde, it was easily enough for two four, but I have truly eaten it all, in a self-indulgent 'I was up with the baby six times last night and am completely knackered so, I know, I'll make myself feel sick' kinda way. Oh dear. You can have a packet of Scampi Fries if you like though. (they're not as nice as the Bacon Fries, but are a nice nostalgia trip back to my school days).

Good luck for the assessment phone call, that'll be an interesting one...

hey Hilde my fw might meet your FW at the abusers programme....[falls off chair laughing]!!!!

"How will you tell if I've changed if we're not together"..believe me I (you) will know
"How will I change if you won't help me"? by being a grown up and accepting responsibility
"But it's you who presses all my buttons, can't you see? You're not perfect and you just seem to blame me all the time", not being perfect and being abusive are 2 different things
"How can you treat me like this, you know I love you"

I LOVED the phone call from the programme....they so got what it's like to be the partner of an abuser!!!!!

Agree with you hilde, scampi fries are my fave ever! Poundland sell them in packs with the bacon ones

Interesting, Curtis, that's how I feel about NSDH wanting me to get up/go to bed on his timetable. Like I should be a good little wife waving him off to work in my little pinny before getting DD up and ready and doing a much harder commute than he does. Talk about a sense of entitlement! fuck that shit.

Everything in our counselling is all me me me as far as he's concerned. Seriously, he thinks cuddles and me getting up earlier will save us! But dare I mention him needing to respect and help me and he thinks I'm talking another language. Or as he puts it in counselling, I need to 'see things from the other side.' .

When the counsellor told us she'd see us next week he went all pompous and started talking about how busy he was at work so may not be able to come blah de blah. So she turned to me and said 'you could come on your own', I agreed. Then he suddenly backtracked with 'Oh I'm sure I can come'. It made me giggle inside.

These FW scriptwriters need some new material!

Haha, my FW does that too - he thinks I need to change, heaven forbid you point his flaws out. Mine aren't flaws, mine are me being a human being, his are him being an arsehole.

ARGH that whole thing of being a good little wife! That's all my ex wanted: a 'little woman' who would do everything for him and worship the ground he walked on while looking after his kids, helping him out on his farm, doing all his life admin, never question him etc etc etc.

He didn't give two short shits about me. I was there for his convenience, like some 1950s housewife. Respect didn't even enter his vocabulary. Wanker!

Thank you all for advice re lawyers. I think I should def listen to instinct, as you say, Ana and Hilde, yes that is the underlying thing I now realise was bothering me ? using the EA as a weapon and not being honest. It?s not clean cut and there are issues which can?t be ignored. I agree Fool, can?t see why SS would be a scary prospect, I?m a stable and decent parent. I will check for specialist lawyer on WA perhaps? Any tips?

Hilde tricky one re the weekend. In a sense, the dcs might have a happier experience if fw is finding it easier to cope, unfair though that is to you who needs and deserves a break. How is he when stressed by all four? My fw can?t really be left in charge of our two for any significant period as he just ends up screaming blue at them Well done for recognising the phone call signals so early, you?re not a mug at all!

Charlotte it?s so difficult when outside influences make you question yourself, like this sermon. But I think those statements are more general and our EA circs are different to what they are referring to, in that it is an abusive situation we and kids are facing.

Nini the grumpiness with your family and about money being spent ? SO similar to my fw ? of course perfectly fine if it?s his family we are offering drinks or meal to, but he is scrooge personified when we are with my family, grrr!

Ana stay strong! He is being such an unbelievable user

Bertie how bloody awful your OH is being about the dcats, I am shocked. I hope poorly kitty keeps well and other kitty also!

Pony am quite jealous of the galaxy, would love some right now [choc]! My FW (when we weren?t separated under same roof) used to get the arse because I would be later than him coming to bed.

All divorce is for irretrievable breakdown, isn't it? Unreasonable behaviour is one of the routes, and the one I took. I made sure to include his lack of financial and practical contribution among the lists of his behaviours, as my case (if we had gone that far) was partly based on this.

In the event we settled, 50/50 with some deferred till I come into inheritance at some future point (or earn loads of money, Hah!) so that I could keep the house, and so that DC thought it was fair - though tbh I don't know what they think.

I looked on the Resolution site (because I hoped we could use collaborative law, but oh no that would have cost Ex, he represented himself and was v uncooperative). Looked for women lawyers who had graduated a long time ago, this ensured they had years of experience. Was v happy with the one I chose.

My point being that you can list EA behaviours among the reasons - I also put his refusal to answer me, and his refusal to discuss finances.

Hi, wobbly - nodding as I read through your list. Ooh, that "not looking at me when I try to talk to him" thing in particular annoyed me for years!

So, I think earlier I said he doesn't admit he has a problem. Is he lurking round here somewhere? Cos this afternoon he was admitting how he prioritises friends above me and apologising for that. Not promising change, however. Think I'll just go with the flow and enjoy the Superhusband part he's currently playing and have a rest from all the thinking and worrying for a bit!

Hello all, just adding myself to the thread now. In case anyone hasn't seen the Relationships thread I started here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1576037-Have-finally-bit-the-bullet-Made-an-appointment-with-RELATE basically me and my husband are both guilty of EA towards each other in some way. But he's the type who would rather die than talk feelings so if he doesn't want to seek help then that's up to him. I realise the things I've done wrong to him as well and how my life today is linked to unresolved issues with my upbringing with a violent abusive mum and an absent dad..and when he was home they'd just get into massive quarrels with lots pushing and shoving and the occasional slap on the face). I know it's unresolved because I thought severing ties with her would help and it did to an extent but I still get sad and tear up (and angry) when I think about what she did to me as a wee child so I'm sure there is still a long way ahead of me for recovery. I have read anger management books and websites and really want to change... as so much of my expression is influenced by my anger towards her. I have had oodles of self control not to spank my kids when they act up (And then have to go take a break in another room if I can, to shut myself off as my heart will be racing), but I get irrtable, take things the wrong way, always defensive, and end up quarelling with my husband or quibbling at the very least about the trivialest of things. I am worried my kids are learning all the wrong things especially since my husband does stupid crazy shit once in a blue moon when we get into a major quarrel over something he really feels very strongly about. So I have called up a counsellor today and made an appointment. For tomorrow. I felt super nervous once I hung up the phone and am sooo worried she is either not going to take my childhood issues seriously (well most of the adults in my family dismissed my claims whenever I wanted to confide and made me feel like it was all my own fault if my mum hits me).. Also I'm so afraid she's gonna judge me and I am also afraid of opening a rotten can of worms there once I start talking about my issues. I know as a professional counsellor she would not do that, and my fears are all irrational... but it is seriously so nerve wracking my chest has started to ache all evening. I have calmed down somewhat...

My husband offered to pay a portion of the counselling fees but I'm still undecided about taking it up. Because he still acts like he can do no wrong and he's the nice guy. Today he came home from work and asked me if I am still doing my driving test (the recent blow up was about my driving actually, as he just can't seem to restrain himself from anger if I am driving in the car with him and not taking on what he says with obedient nods rather than start arguing about how he should stop calling me stupid when I make a driving error because it's fucking patronising.) I said yes but everyone on MN has advised me not to ever get into a car with you again for future driving sessions. And he made a snide comment saying "I bet you spouted a load of shit on there about what happened." And I was just... fuming at his denial of events. He's always always denying the severity of what he did .. He will always say I overexaggerate when I tell others about the things he did. Well I'm not falling for it anymore. I used to be gaslighted but up until a few years ago I read the Gaslighting book and realised what he and my mum did to me and wisened up. He doesn't stop me from talking or seeing other people though, but he cares about his image so much.

He probably thinks if I get my head sorted by the counsellor then I will be sweet to him and then everything will be fine and dandy in our marriage because he firmly believes he isn't the one with a problem and he'll always be his mum's good boy. And if I let him pay for the counselling and I get "fixed" (i.e. start to grow in confidence, less irritable, start to gain friends, start to make good stead in the direction of gaining employment and keeping it) then he can live with the knowledge that "he saved me" ..

But... as a housewife with no income and not having worked in 8 years, maybe every little helps and to hell with what he thinks. So I'm still contemplating. And it may be true that if I am "fixed" family life would be less problematic as he usually doesn't cause a problem though he does get irritating from time to time.. and yes the occasional flares of rage which sends him into crazy mode. It's happened twice in 10 years now.

So tomorrow...
We'll see. I'm doing this for me. I'm doing this for my kids.

Sending hugs to everyone caught up in a marriage of EA..

Silver thanks for tips, good idea re women lawyers who graduated long time ago. The more I think about this lawyer, the more I am unconvinced by him.

Also hi and how are you? Sounds like all the blame is being put on you. It's never one person's fault; believe in yourself and good luck.

Just had a moment of clarity when viewing the NCDV site: it seems so obvious now but ... the only reason I am holding back and pussyfooting is because I am physically intimidated by fw if I say I want full separation/ divorce. That's the ONLY reason I haven't done it. I feel there will be catastophic consequnces and I fear them. Other people in "normal" divorces can have The Conversation, can serve papers and discuss all the stuff. I can't and most of us on here can't. I had been berating myself for being feeble and slow. But I am feeling such a sense of relief at this realisation - it's blindingly obvious but it's only just hit home IYSWIM? I don't feel so feeble now, does that make any sense

Hi everyone and welcome newbies xx

I did very well with my poker face for the wedding yesterday, my FW did his usual trick of making a horrible comment on what I am wearing upon arrival at the venue in order to make me feel like shit I quickly responded that his trousers looked a bit tight - hahaha - two can play at that game stupid FW!! He was shocked as normally I would go into my shell.

The remainder of the day/night consisted of me listening to all his friends telling me what a legend he is and such a great guy . Of course upon arrival to the hotel room he tried to get his wicked way. Apparently he had spent all all this money on the room and drinks etc that it was the least he deserves. Arsehole. I managed to pretend to have toilet issues for as long as it took for him to start snoring!

FW now thinks as we he had a good time at the wedding that everything is back to normal now. Bloody far from it FW. His mum then tried to arrange to come round and visit the kids this avo and he went bloody mental at me about it, he says he can't even relax in his own home without her being nosy. He has major issues with both his parents (who are divorced) which quite often I get the brunt of. He never talks about their divorce or how it was growing up so I sometimes wonder if his father was also a FW to his mum and thats all he has known how to treat a woman still no excuse though.

On the other hand, he has half heartily agreed to try counselling as long as its joint and I go with him as apparently I have "issues" too - yessss - HIM!! That is my only 'issue'!! Can anyone recommend where to try and how the process works etc etc.....it is amazing I have even managed to get to this step with him as this time last year even the suggestion of it resulted in a shouting match and stuff getting smashed up. I think he now realises I'm deadly serious about spitting up etc, whereas before I have always given in and stupidly gone back to 'normal'.

Anyway sorry for the long post everyone, can't sleep and got a bit carried away I think! Hope you all have a good week and no major FW episodes occur x

namechanged, you go girl. All that COURAGE and integrity you are showing, will take you to a different place. Keep going, keep owning 'your' hurt and pain, and you will find that you do, eventually, get less reactive as the pain is looked at and your little person inside you is heard, believed and comforted.

xxxx

Heading into my personal counselling appointment now but wanted to record this.

Had a dream last night that something cut my left hand open (across the knuckle of my little finger) and it really hurt. Woke up this morning and that exact area is aching like mad and really sore for no reason. I've had a few dreams lately where I've heard something, usually part of a hand or arm, and the next day it's been really hurting.

This is weird for me, I'm not one for hurting myself in my sleep, and I don't know why it's happening. The thought occured to me that maybe NSDH is doing it to me while I'm asleep. It's probably crazy, but I can't think of a reasonable explanation.

I'm rambling and it's probably nothing. Off to counselling, catch up with you guys later.

Sorry, *hurt not heard.

Hi Everyone,

I was just wanting some advice, I don't know if its emotional abuse as such, or just that we are completely different personalities?

We have been married for 12 years and have 2 children aged 5 and 6. He was so lovely to start with, couldn't do enough for me, he used to give me a lift to work, make me tea and toast in the morning etc.

But now I just despair. Its things like, I shall say I want us to go out for the day on a Saturday as I work on Sundays, and he shall say we shall do something one weekend. Then when we have a free saturday and I suggest something he says we cant afford it, so I say well it doesn't have to be expensive, we can take a picnic etc, but he says petrol is expensive etc. Its all about money with him. I have been working some extra hours in work aswell, and he has recently taken a pay drop in work and said he needs extra £100 a month from me to help with the shortfall, I said fine, then said so long as I get to keep a bit of my extra money as i don't want to be working all these extra hours and not get anything myself! He said you'll still have about £75 extra for yourself anyway, and you have more money to spend than me anyway, petrol is expensive and thats where my money goes, and trips like going to my parents (1 hour drive) and his parents (2 hour drive) and days out is were is goes. So I said to the children thats ok mummy shall just use her extra money to go on the train with them to see my parents when he is working on a Saturday. He didn't like that! ( I feel I cant win with him).

There are so many other things but I feel I would be here all day. I shall give a list of some other things but just wanted to describe a situation first.

I find it hard to have a conversation with him, as when we have a different opinion my opinion is wrong. He disagrees with a lot of things I say.

He seriously lacks empathy for others, and I am the complete opposite, I really feel for others.

He can be in a really good mood one day and then be really grumpy the next.

I feel even after all this time together I don't know him as a person and I cant work him out.

There are other things as well but I wont list them all.

I have thought about leaving him as I am unhappy, but I just don't know how he would react, I think he would get funny about seeing the children, he would want to see them, but on his terms and I get the feeling it would be awkward between us as I would be happy to compromise whereas he wouldn't I don't think (don't get me wrong I like to get my own way, but I know that I cant all the time). I also suffer from anxiety which really doesn't help!

He is also very charming to others, and they think he's great, he's such a laugh etc, he is a very confident person, and Im not, never have been. I worry if I leave him everyone would take his side and feel sorry for him because he is so nice. He dominates conversation when we are with others and I cant get a word in edgeways, I prefer to go out on my own with friends rather than with him because at least then I can get a word in. He also likes to brag about things, and when he is telling a story about something that has happened he always exaggerates things.

Sorry for waffling on so much, I don't really have anyone to talk to about it as everyone thinks he is such a great person.

I met him when I was 20 and it was my first serious relationship, I only had one boyfriend before him and that was only about 5 month relationship and wasn't serious so I have nothing to compare this too.

Thanks for reading and I would be grateful for any advice.

Hilde, glad your head is ok! I think you needed that last night, an outlet. Glad you've got such a good neighbour. If you start to feel poorly, have some Scampi Fries!

Nini, hope it goes well today. Maybe your tensing up that area in your sleep because of dreaming about it, that's why it's hurting - I'm thinking about when I dreamt of punching someone and actually did punch the headboard & it hurt like hell! Like Hilde says, the mind is an odd thing. Can you remember anything more about the dream? My friend says that dreams are constructs our minds make so we can process/deal with the things we are thinking about.

Maggie, glad the wedding went ok. Joint counselling isn't good for an abusive relationship, and i think that your NSDH is just looking for more ways to get at you by making you go too and talking about your vulnerabilities, etc. I'd suggest to him that you both get separate counselling at the same time, it would be better (and more effective) for both of you. If he refuses, you know that the only reason he wants to go to counselling is what I've said, to have more material to get at you.

trying, I like your moment of clarity. It's spot on.

Charlotte, hope 'Superhusband' is still going, if only for a bit of respite for you...

I'm feeling weird today. Got a really good sleep last night, thanks to an early night and a quiet(ish) baby. But today I feel exhausted despite a good sleep, and strangely panicky and anxious. I've got my lovely HV coming for a visit this afternoon. I think I'm a little scared that if I tell her what happened that she'll involve SS. And I've had a reply from my WA worker on email, and from my solicitor asking for an update. Plus NSDH texted me yesterday saying he was going to stop drinking for now, which I'm pleased about. But the boys are going there tonight for a couple of hours and I'm already nervous about seeing him. And my sister passed in her car when I was walking DS1 to school, I tentatively waved and she just ignored me. Mum was up yesterday for a cuppa and is still not making any mention of anything, and has stopped asking me about how things are with NSDH.

I just feel a bit overwhelmed by everything. Anyway, going to get out the house for a bit (despite my desire being to lie on the sofa and put Cbeebies on).