Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hi ladies. Wow ana I am thrilled that you are feeling so strong. No doubt about it, you are doing the right thing, it's shiningly clear from your posts above - what a user!!! Keep strong, lovey!

bertie I hope your precious dcat is as well as possible. xxxx I also hope your nsdh stays in his room and you stretch out in the living room and enjoy your space.

Charlotte your mum maybe doesn't realise the extent and also that generation maybe feel like it's their duty to support a marriage if they think there's a flicker of hope? But I am sure she'll be supportive once she realises your position and you really do deserve the best, we all do.

Outthe I loved your poem, it is inspirational in that you felt that low but then got out, it's really helping me, so big thank you from this corner. It's also a really evocative, haunting poem - congratulations for being a lovely writer.

Hilde your story is continuing to inspire me loads; I have revived my backbone and picked myself off the floor since my wobble on Friday. FW has been such an arse over weekend that he's almost making it easier for me IYSWIM. Have several flats on horizon that are not too crippling in terms of rent. Plan is to take one and then issue divorce proceedings and ask him to move out of family home as no way can I do it under same roof and he never goes anywhere apart from work. I mean, never, doesn't even go out. I'm quite sociable and I am getting increasing hard time for any time I go out with friends.

Today I was told in front of kids that I have a "little brain". He then stormed off in a huff (because I had dared to put forward my own POV about a maths thing ds was doing). Is not speaking to me (God, what a loss, eh) and is deep in a huff, the saddo. Apart from when a friend came round and he "jokingly" belittled me.

Hey ladies, just a quick catch-up before I call it a day/night, had to say well done to Ana - just try and ignore all contact with him till Wednesday and your DV appointment.
bertie, sometimes a good thing can come from a bad situation. So sorry to hear about your lovely cat. But am glad that looking after her gave you the strength to claw back (if you'll pardon the kitty metaphor) some space for yourself. I think you couldn't do it for yourself, but could do it for your Dcat. You've done it now, keep doing it, for yourself. Hope you & cat have an ok night.
Charlotte, you sound a bit defeated. Sending you strength and hugs. Get some rest then regroup yourself. You know it's not right for you to stay if you feel like this.
Nini, any decision on your counselling babysitting situation? Could you take her with you this once, and if it doesn't work it doesn't work, you reschedule, but at least then you've tried?

I've had an ok weekend - good, in many respects. First Saturday night I've spent on my own for nearly two years. I sat in bed with wine, bacon fries and chocolate watching stuff I wanted to watch on iPlayer. Today NSDH had the boys, I had the afternoon to myself, took myself off to Ikea for some housey bits - nothing exciting or extravagant, but it's strange how a £1.50 draining board can give me so much pleasure! And i bought DS1 some multi-coloured hangers (he didn't have enough), he was over the moon!!!!
But I can see in a way how DS1 has been affected by all this - he's really lacking in self-esteem sometimes. Went into town yesterday afternoon to meet DSDs for a coffee, and he had a bit of a paddy before we left, something really minor that I can't even remember, but he couldn't stop crying about it. On walk down he was very subdued, asked him what he was going to have in the coffee shop, he said nothing because he didn't deserve anything. He still refused to choose anything to eat or drink in the coffee shop. The girls were great though, they helped me bring him round and he did have something in the end, then DSD1 took him off to Poundland and bought him a cowboy set, which he loved (simple pleasures, just like his old Mum!).

But every time I've seen NSDH over the weekend it's been bad. I ended up walking off at one point yesterday (only went up to drop the girls back), after I got criticised for not bringing DS1 up during the day (hadn't even been discussed till then). Today he was in full undermine mode in a way that was completely transparently deliberate (I even said at one point 'I can see you, i can see what you're doing', but this makes me a crazy-lady apparently) and I just wanted to get away. He's not made any references to making amends for last weekend, or reassurances that it wont happen again, and is already asking me when we're going to start meeting up again. I just don't know where my head's at, I feel more distance from him than ever, I'm struggling to get past what happened last weekend and as usual he's aggravating it more rather than going out of his way to make me feel better. He's so sure of himself, so sure he's right in not putting in any effort, so sure that I'm out of order telling him he needs to work harder and being different, that I do sometimes find myself wondering if I'm being unreasonable.

Anyway, i only came on here really quickly to say a quick 'hell yeah' to Ana and bertie, and say I'm thinking of everyone else, like Charlotte and Nini, but I appear to have just had a bit of a rant. Really didn't intend to (thought I was way too tired, probably am so apologies if none of it makes sense...).

Another weekend over, hope everyone's made it through in tact, ready for another week of fuck-wittery!!!!

Oooooo trying, your description of you day sent my arm-hair all a-tingle in recognition. Glad you're feeling stronger - although I know for you to be feeling more resolve, it's because your FW is being awful again, which is Not Good. Get yourself into that flat as quick as you can, you'll feel like a different person. Ie anyone but him!

Hi Pony your evening with [choc] and bacon fries and your choice of telly sounds lovely and just what you need and deserve . I am so sorry about your worries about your ds. Mine has also said that "I don't deserve this / that" and it's heart breaking. But we are moving forwards, aren't we and that can only be positive for the dcs. I know what you mean about the nsdhs' way of sounding so sure about themselves that we doubt our own judgment, but you know you are def not being unreasonable, you're taking steps to save yourself and your LOs from further hurt and damage. You are being VERY reasonable . What you said about arm hair tingling - wow, it makes me feel more validated yet, though I am so sorry you had to go through it too. Thank god for this thread making us feel collectively stronger.

PS quick opinion check - lawyer glanced at some of my record of verbal abuse of myself and kids - not proper look as it was quick session with him - but said I probably "wouldn't want to" bring this up as we wouldn't want SS becoming involved and better to go for an irreconcilable issues type divorce. But my issue is that it is the EA that is causing the breakdown of marriage and causing me concern re kids - feel it's not an issue to be brushed under carpet as FW will be as difficult as he can and I need strong background evidence which I have. Lawyer implied I could keep evidence as kind of threat in background to keep everything as quick and reasonable as poss - but I sort of feel my terrible experiences have been dismissed. Should I get over myself and take his lawyerly advice or find diff lawyer specialising in EA/DV etc? Thanks for input.....

I think you are right to be concerned. It's not just a clean cut divorce you want, you have children so all needs sorting out. See a different lawyer for advice i think. Maybe a DV org can help recommend?

Don't dismiss your instinct. EA is not something to use as a hold over him - its the cause of all this

Good luck

tryingtoescape I would find a sol specialising in EA/DV (try women's aid for recommendations) but don't be surprised if the advice is the same. Sols can seem v hard-nosed, but they are not there to validate you, though they will believe you. They are there to advise you what is best to do, in terms of what is possible and legal, what the process is, and how much it will cost.

I only know about divorce and financial negotiations, as kids were grown when I did mine. It hardly matters what grounds you use for divorce, so long as you do divorce. The process aims to provide for the kids, and for each party to move on. It would seem your evidence is relevant for contact arrangements, though, and I can't help there.

Tricky one, hilde. Would your ds2 have a preference, do you think? I've usually kept dd3 with me when NSDH has older 3 as, yes it's easier for NSDH, but it's also easier for dd3, who does not like to be separated from her mother without her consent! If you think ds2 would really prefer to be included, though, you should say that to FW, so that he's forced to think of others.

NSDH seems to be trying hard at the moment. Admittedly, without acknowledging he has a problem - it is very clearly all my problem as he had a happy marriage till I started talking about leaving... But he's being utterly reasonable apart from the occasional put-down That's probably partly why I was wobbling last night. Oh, and at church the sermon was about leaving everything to God to sort out - what exactly is that supposed to mean?! Spaghetti-head still present today, as you see!

Sorry I need to catch up on a few posts. . Bertie hope your dcat is ok.

Still no joy with a babysitter for this afternoon (I told NSDH and he just said 'oh' so as usual it's for me to sort out), so might do what you suggest Curtis and take her along. If it doesn't work I won't do it again.

Yesterday we went to see my sister, had an ok day apart from NSDH looking grumpy most of the time, especially when it came to money needing to be spent. He got the hump as my sister wasn't waiting for us when we arrived. I'll be sure to raise this today. The last week we have been more 'cuddly' at his insistence, but I don't see any change in him. He isn't less stressy, or more helpful, or anything. I'll also be raising this today.

Very busy week ahead so probably won't be around much. Strength to all!

Good luck this afternoon, Nini. Hope the counsellor hears you, even if NSDH doesn't...

I think you're right, hilde: pray first, then act. Good. Feel stronger again. :)

Unfortunately I've seen FW - of course the niceness, love you sorry mask slipped after 10 minutes. I was frosty throughout.

Again, pressing me for money. I can't begin to describe how hard I find saying no. I don't know why but he's got this knack of making me feel really bad.

He doesn't deserve my money. It is MINE.
I earned it - and he doesn't even respect that. He wants all the advantages of being in a committed relationship like financial security without providing me with any of the emotional security. If he was a person who was seeing to me emotionally, I might be inclined to support him in the way he needs it - and that would be generous of me.
Apparently I haven't got a clue what he's going through. It's alright for me.
He acts like he's doing me a favour.
He is interrupting me at work. Heaven forbid I text him when he is writing a job application or playing a computer game.

He acts like it's loose change, and not a good chunk of my paypacket.
He tells me he can't afford to eat and that this uncertainty is hard for him.

When I am firm with him - not mean, just pointing out that it's difficult, I didn't shout or anything - he says 'get out of my sight and don't talk to me like that'.

Twunt.

pictures knee boots

I'm staying strong, just. I wish he wouldn't press me to see him. That's what I need to detach from really. I'm sorry I don't just ignore him.

I WILL NOT GIVE HIM MONEY. I WON'T.

2 sleeps until I go to the DV support group...

Don't be scared of SS becoming involved. If he is out of the house then they will be unlikely to do anything if you are coping ok. In any case SS won't be monitoring the divorce courts. If it is disputed They will get involved via the courts re contact any way and if EA is occurring you would want them to be aware of that. Imagine yourself with a cahms officer and them saying well, we think 50;50 care is ok as you are divorcing for Irreconcilable differences, you say no for EA, they say so where is that written then......

Divorcing on irreconcilable differences is BAD advice, get thee to a proper DV specialist

ana your money, not his, blimey he is more entitled than mine and that's saying something.

walk away, keep walking, don't look back. HOW DARE HE expect you to keep him...he does nothing positive for you, nothing.

Hi all, I have sadly and reluctantly come to the conclusion that I am EA. If I look back he has not loved cared about me for about 10 years.

3 years ago I discovered an affair that had gone on for 2 years in my house and in my side of the bed.

The shock and pain of that has opened my eyes to what a selfish person he really is, and how little I feature. He hasn't done any of the hard work of looking at himself or reassuring me I count, and now tell me I 'punish' him (with my hurt, anger and need to understand WHY. I have given up now).
The reason I haven't really seen the EA, is that none of it is shouting and screaming. It is all so quiet:
The silent treatment
No affection
No sex
Not listening to anything I say. Whether I saw a friend or invented eternal power, none of it would penetrate.
Not even LOOKING at me
Secretive
Makes unilateral decisions ££££££ spending (for him) or seeing people, without consulting me.
Hating being called on anything
Telling me I persecute him, whilst actually I am feeling attacked.

It's all a bit of a headf-k. He is furiously angry with me, and I have no idea why. I have stopped screaming, yelling (because I realised that was abusive) and I no longer try to reach him - don't know why that is so infuriating.

I feel stupid posting on the same page as Maggie May and Hilde, but the bottom line is in a very nice, polite, upper class way I count as little as them too.

Hilde you are not a mug. Whatever has happened

Abitwobbly....EA can be subtle, we don't all fit the stereotype. A sad but warm welcome here

Xxx

hilde what's happened?

abitwobbly are you ok? It does sound like EA to me (just the silent treatment is enough by itself)...

I paid the price for sitting my living room last night. This morning FW was really obnoxious.

1. He shut Dcat2 outside in the rain "because she was meowing" and annoying poorly Dcat1 (although one was upstairs and one downstairs?!). I also think I heard him kick Dcat2 before that...but I'm not sure . DS then let Dcat2 back in the catflap...and FW told him off.

2. FW was banging around the kitchen to the extent that DS whispered to me "why is daddy making so much noise?"

3. when i said goodbye to DS on my way out the door this morning FW complained that I didn't say anything about him having a nice day...

4. FW then complained that I hadn't acknowledged an email he sent me last week (he cc'd me in on something so it didn't actually need me to reply). This is two weeks after he told me not to "fill his inbox" with my "unnecessary" emails you mean the ones where I was actually trying to organise the fairly important issue of WHO'S GOING TO PICK OUR SON UP FROM SCHOOL!

Excuse the rant

Anyway...Dcat1 is still with me (just about). I should hear from vet tonight about results of blood test...

Hello everyone, I've been lurking

Someone suggested I post here, and reading some of your stories, my ex sounds like he has been to the same school of twunts as many of yours

I told my ex in February this year it was over, it was like someone flicked the switch, I have no idea where I got the bravery from, it was the final straw.

Basically last year I found texts from OW, saying 'need to see you tomorrow' now this person was vaguely known to us both, I didn't let on I had seen it and to cut story short I caught him in her house the next day.

I was devastated but foolishly believed him when he said nothing happened. It all got brushed under the carpet, and although my memory is very very clear of the facts he still claims my recollection is wrong

Since then it was never the same, his behaviour has always been controlling, but I was blind to it, bought me skirts and dresses as gifts, because he thought I didn't dress feminine enough. Criticised how I walked, talked, I was banned from using the word shag, as he thought it was too crass.

Then he turned against my friends saying they were taking advantage of me when I offered to help them, then my sister was banned from coming over, she is a bit odd mind!

A light bulb moment came on Boxing Day, my parents sphere staying with me, he was off his face on booze, and now this is going to sound silly - he was sat snarling looking at my mum.
When my mum got up and helped herself to cheese and biscuits, he flew off. The handle, stormed off out to the pub.
I made excuses, went up to my DS room and just sobbed into a pillow.

I knew then what I had to. Do, but it took me a few more months to build up the strength.

He began acting strange on his mobile again and in feb I checked it to find him agreeing to meet a different OW.

That's when I told him it was over. It was the biggest relief of my life, however things then went from bad to worse.

He would not accept he had done anything wrong he had answers for everything, however never told him everything I knew and had read, so he just lied.

I had everything from threats to kill himself, sobbing hysterically, threatening to leave me with nothing, the list goes on.

So the house went on the market, we are not married and have no DC together, two mercies!

Although I have a DS who lives with me.

He has continued to refuse to move out, saying that as I wanted out I should go,I have no family in 100 miles of me, no friends with spare rooms.

He on the other hand has all his family within half an hour, whoi know are willing to have. Him, but he won't go. I suppose this is a control thing??

I'm stuck in this hideous limbo now

If you have read this far, thank you, it has felt good getting it all out, and when I read it back it makes me realise he is the one who is abusive, it sounds daft but I have to keep reminding myself I have not done anything wrong as the constant mind games continue.

I suppose there are no answers, but if anyone has any words of wisdom, I would appreciate it

I will keep watching the thread and sending all those who need it a hug

Hey gaga....who knew the factory made so many of these twats??
There is always a way. keep posting, stay strong and we'll all look for answers.

Hilde however much of a mug you feel you've been bet I've been a bigger one...goes with the territory. Nothing is unsalvagable. ((((((hug)))))))

wobbly ah-ha you are here!! I think your NSDH will fit right in, pull up a pew and have a

bertie at FW and poor Dcat

Just catching up... bertie sounds like we are in a similar situation.
It is your house too love, don't be driven out, do what you want to do, and keeping him guessing will get right up his nose.
at the poor cat, really hope they are ok.

Hey to wobbly and gaga. all round.
Hilde are you ok?
Bertie much hugs to both your Dcats. How is the poorly one?

Counselling today was a mixed bag. The counsellor wasn't impressed that we brought DD along (despite telling us previously that we could ), but DD was an angel and played so nicely in the corner with her toys even the counsellor commented on how good she was.

It was, as I expected, hard to talk with DD there though. A few things came to light - NSDH expects me to get up at the same time as him (he's up at 6:15am to get his train, I get up at 7am as he leaves), so we can 'have breakfast together and talk'. He also expects me to go to bed when he does (usually he goes to sleep shortly before me, I tend to read for about 15 mins). And he still wants, as before, more. fucking. cuddles. I told him he was being totally unreasonable, and in a roundabout way the counsellor agreed I think.

A few more past grudges came up again. He believes he paid for 'most' of the wedding, I called him up on it (quite angrily) as that's total bollocks. I told him I need him to help out more with DD and round the house (he seemed totally surprised by this), and the issue of my clutter came up too. I told the counsellor this was a big issue we need to solve. I also said that little 'presents' have gone out of our relationship and have done for years. He disagreed but there we go. More about past issues but don't want to clog up the thread.

The counsellor wants us to read up about the 5 love languages and also to keep talking. I'm seeing my own counsellor tomorrow for the last time.

Hilde, as much as I'm sorry you had that experience today, I'm actually quite pleased to hear (read) you getting angry with him! I think that is A Good Thing, and will channel itself as strength to keep you on the path you're on. And you've seen his new unchanged tactics early on, so you haven't had a lot of hopes dashed. I wouldn't be surprised if he genuinely thinks that his housework offer is a good one (while subconsciously planning it exactly the way you guess).
My NSDH has said, almost word-for-word, the same thing in an attempt to get me back in his zone and meeting up regularly again: how will you know if I've changed unless you agree to us seeing each other again? This effectively puts the responsibility back onto us - the reason it's not working is that we wont give them a chance to show how much they've changed, which they obviously have done. Lots.

On a similar note, Nini, my NSDH also expected me to get up at the same time as him - almost exact same timings as you. He also said 'so we can have a nice breakfast together and start the day nicely'. But I didn't eat breakfast at that time, I was only up at that time to help him get his breakfast do it all for him: cornflakes, cup of tea, orange juice, fizzy vitamin tablet in water, all presented in front of him like some fucking Stepford Wife, with his sandwiches, fruit and cereal bar all packed for his lunch too. And instead of the nice start to the day, I was on eggshells till he went, and we often argued he found some fault with something I said or didn't say. And would also get the hump if I wanted to go to bed earlier than him.

Sack the scriptwriters!

Oh dear, I appear to have eaten my own bodyweight in Galaxy. Woops. [choc]