Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

So happy to hear you are feeling so wonderful Hilde, and making plans for you.

FW is calling a counsellor this morning after an email from me telling him that I have reached my limit and suggesting seperation. We'll see, he has promised to call a counsellor about 20 million times before.

We had a short conversation last night about the email. The moment he started pushing it back on me ("you are a nag, you are a control freak, a few drinks/ socialising is not a big deal"), I ended the conversation. I am so not interested in engaging anymore, sick and tired of having the same talk over and over again.

Better go do some work. Love to all.

daisee - I used to blog, but in the end found I just couldn't be honest enough about my life to keep on. And these days I keep even more from NSDH than I would've done then. So it fizzled out. I know what you mean about the contact when you're stuck at home, though.

Can you send a private message (email or whatever) to individual friends or supportive family when you want that contact?

Interesting, ForSale - does that mean he agreed he has a problem? Or (if he does it) will he say, "My wife thinks I have a problem"? NSDH won't contemplate it because he thinks there is no problem.

Very sensible to end the conversation. It's so weary-making, isn't it?

This, ladies, this...........
I am a person in my own right. I have every right to make decisions. I can make them and I will. Sometimes I will make the wrong decision, but then I will face up to the consequences of that. That is what life is all about. I can't wait to get started!

imagine a dancing fool, pop poms glitter and naff party music: Yay Hilde!!!!

PS Counselling for Abusers:
Normal individual counselling for abusers may make them feel better and understand themselves better but it DOES NOT stop the abuse as it just makes them happier more understanding possibly more manipulative abusers. They need to do counselling that focuses on the choice of abusive over normal relationships, gives them options and challenges for change. This is seldom possible with person focussed counselling as it focusses on "I" and as we know they are all about "I".....they need to look outwards.

Joining Fool in waving pom poms Yey Hilde
And just to point to Fools post above about couselling and abusers.
Please read it everyone (and all of Fool's posts!)
Abusers may have loads of issues, but none that count except the abuse.
The question is not
'Why do they abuse?'
but
'Why do they believe they have the right to abuse?'
A very different question.

Hilde! Your posts are making me very happy today.
I see all the very valid points about abusers and counselling, however for me its something - its better than nothing. I've been working on me for years now, I'm still a work in progress, but Mr Perfect has just done what he pleases. He tells me that he wants to see the counsellor as he is more or less constantly filled with rage and frustration, that spills out all over me. Hey, if he can vomit the nastiness (metaphorically speaking) all over someone else for a change, I'm happy!

runs back in, waves shiny pompoms in Hilde's general direction, runs back out

More pom-pom waving over here! Oh, hang on, I didn't quite get that right, did I?

Go, Hilde! So glad for your happy new start.

Love that bit about counselling for abusers just giving you a happier, more well-rounded abuser. And I keep finding that Lundy makes me lol - anyone else find that? When I got to the bit with circles showing relative importance in a family (two equal circles for parents; slightly smaller circle for children) and then HIS perspective (HUGE circle for him, tiny for wifey, miniscule for children) I burst out laughing. SOOO true! He has a nice turn of phrase sometimes, too - a little sarcasm creeps in here and there, I think. Gripping bedtime reading!

My first counselling session went very well this morning and I'm looking forward to more. So nice to talk to someone about all the horrible things in my past (it's ok, it didn't take long) and have her listen and affirm how difficult it must've been. Never had that from NSDH, of course.

And dd3 was happy in her first morning at nursery while I went, so that's a relief: I wouldn't've been able to continue with it otherwise.

Hello ladies just checking in here from my own thread (not sure how to do links)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1573103-Is-this-EA-or-am-I-being-paranoid-and-where-do-we-go-from-here?pg=2

Feeling a bit emotionally bruised and wondering if I am going to wake up from this bad dream soon.

I have a relationship counselling appt at 3pm on monday. (cue frantic childcare juggling). I told nsDH yesterday am that I was going to look into counselling. he asked what sort so I told him, but he didnt say anything else, just went all quiet. I have asked for an appt on my own as I am worried that if we had a joint appt he might just turn the tables on me and make out it is all my fault- this is what happens at home whenever I challenge him. I dont even know if he would come anyway.

He didnt ask about it yesterday eve but has been supernice since then, done his jobs without complaint, even made the bed (NEVER does that), asked me if I minded if he watched his tv programme - I was quite happy because I had work to do on laptop. I just dont know whether this nice person is the real one, or whether this is just an extra effort he is putting on after the massive rows we have had recently.

I keep thinking of more things he has done over the years that are red flags and adding to the list, its getting longer and longer. But I know he would just say that I lose my rag as well sometimes, or that I am being over-sensitive, or deliberately taking things the wrong way.

Anyway this has turned into a bit of a waffle. Thank you all for your lovely words on my other thread xxx

thank you again hilde and good for you in dealing with your FW.

I still worry that I am a bit of a hysterical fraud :( He doesnt tick the obvious boxes compared with your FW for example. He doesn't hit me or threaten violence, call me names/ugly etc. I've read the links at the top of the thread, and glanced at the books on Amazon, but they all seem to deal with men who are much more obviously abusive if you know what I mean?

THank you for your support xx

Hi MrsP, welcome. Your thread is very interesting. I need to do a list like that for my second counselling session, I was thinking. My experience is of the "death by a thousand paper cuts" variety, too, and I would second the recommendation of "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. He looks at the complete spectrum of abusive behaviours and the men using them are surprisingly similar. I've only just started reading it, but am finding it absolutely brilliant - it's like he knows my NSDH personally. My NSDH has never hit me and he doesn't call me names any more. But he is controlling, belittling and manipulative and there is a lot about that in the book. If you get nothing else, get that! :)

Waffling is obligatory here. :o

Oops, I xposted, too - that wasn't a comment on your x post, hilde!!

Here, have one of these, it'll make you feel better.

:o

I have just got the Beverly Engel book through the post (The Emotionally Abusive Relationship) - just read the first couple of pages, but thought I'd share this since it seems relevant for MrsOP.
Emotional abuse can be described as any nonphysical behaviour that is designed to control, intimidate, subjugate, demean, punish, or isolate another person through the use of degradation, humiliation or fear.

She specifically cites 'the refusal to be pleased' as an EA bahaviour. She also refers to something called 'symbolic violence', where physical stuff is used to intimidate - such as kicking a wall, slamming doors, destroying things.

Based on that small summary of just the first few pages of the book - MrsOP, you are definitely in an emotionally abusive relationship. The list of things you gave on your thread just creamed of someone who doesn't have much any respect for you. Just because he's not getting physical to control you doesn't mean he's not doing it in other ways.

thank you so much, all. I keep saying that but I dont know what else to say! your support is honestly quite overwhelming. it means a lot. got to go now but take care of yourselves xx

Death by a thousand cuts, yes, with the odd metaphorical kick in the gut every now and then.

Welcome, MrsOscar. You will receive excellent advice and support here, non judgemental, positive and blunt, but never nasty or hurtful.

Ladies, having a wavering day. And a really rotten day at work too. Thinking over everything in my head and wondering - am I actually in an abusive relationship? Am I just making this out to be worse than it really is?