Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks guys, I've now had time to collect my thoughts and try and process what happened at the Relate counselling today.

Basically, lots of old grudges were dragged up (by him and me). Our accounts of the 'incident' in April still differ, he swears I attacked him first . I ended up crying when he said that, how can he lie so easily? He told me I shouldn't have reported it as it was 'just wasting police time'. I reminded him that after he attacked me 2 years ago I didn't report it, and I wasn't going to let him get away with it twice.

Anyway. His main complaint is that I don't communicate and when I do, I'm curt with him. He told the counsellor he thinks I'm depressed and affected by 'my monthly cycle'. He still thinks I need to show him more empathy for his long commute to work every day - I kept saying (as I did last time this issue was raised) that with a FT job, DD, a house to run, bills etc, I'm too exhausted to have to carry him aswell and that I actually think he has it easier than I do. He said I turn everything into a feminist battle. I was completely honest about how hideous I find our weekends, but as usual I didn't articulate myself well and say most of the things I needed to say.

The counsellor suggested that we draw a line under old grudges and attempt to start anew from now. She did say that if old behaviours reappear that we need to be worried (while looking pointedly at him), and he said he didn't think I was capable of dropping old grudges (which is partly true as too much of his shitty behaviour down the years has never been resolved). She also suggested that we do something fun this weekend - to solve my issue of feeling under too much pressure and his complaint that we never do anything (which, hello, is his fault for never wanting to go out in case we need to spend money).

There was more, but tbh it's still all a bit of a blur. From what I've written, it doesn't sound like anything bad went on, but I'm still feeling wrung out and exhausted by the whole process. Any thoughts?

nini this sounds like exactly the same advice that our counsellor gave when STBXH and I went to Relate. Unfortunately I was so far 'down the road' (for want of a better phrase) that the idea of trying to have fun together seemed surreal. I wasn't able to draw a line and move on 'taking only the good things from our relationship with us'. Because as far as I was concerned all the good things had come from me...and none from him...so it wasn't fair. Does that make any sense?

After that session where we were given that advice I struggled on for four more sessions....hoping that I would be able to see a glimmer of something good in FW to grasp on to...but all I got from him was that he wouldn't wait forever (for me to 'get over it' and for things to go back to how they were).

I don't know if any of that will help nini...

The counsellor said that? I mean, clearly I am no expert on dynamics of successful relationships but it sounds completely unreasonable to me to expect you to suppress legitimate feelings about past events. That, in a nutshell, is what I've always done with my NSDH - "oh, yesterday was a real low point in our relationship; still, forgive and forget and move on, that's probably the only positive thing I can do..." How many times have I felt like that over the years? Has it helped? Of course not! Nothing gets resolved!

Honestly, your counsellor should guess there's a high chance of abuse in your relationship - a violent incident and two very different versions of it - and refuse to see you together.

Again, I'm not an expert but I still think you've every right to feel angry and therefore wrung out by the whole thing. Is it time to stop going?

Hey Nini. It sounds like you felt like I did after the first mediation session I had with exP (DS1's dad).

I too felt that I hadn't been able to get everything across. I felt so frustrated that exP was making himself sound so reasonable and had the gall to complain about me after everything I'd been through as a result of his drinking. A couple of times I got 'rapped' for interrupting exP (because I couldn't hold back from jumping in when he was saying about how I was the unreasonable one). I felt like I'd been taken for a fool for agreeing to mediation, that the session was awful because I came away feeling worse. I felt like I'd been mugged, to be honest. I went home and cried, and cried and cried.

The difference was that I was already split up from exP, already detached from him. I wonder if that's part of what you're feeling, that really you've already checked out of the relationship emotionally.

What did the counsellor say regarding the abusiveness, physical or otherwise? Anything about the comments that he made about you wasting police time?

Nini and anyone else considering counselling.
That couple's counselling is inadvisable (to say the least) in the context of an abusive relationship is explained by Lundy the great
here is another reference to why
www.escapeabuse.com/?s=won%27t+work

bertie, thanks for telling me more about your experience with talking to the police. I feel I want to log it at least, not sure if I want to report it. I have no physical injuries, but his daughter witnessed it - but I don't think I want to require her to be a witness, although I realise if I'd called the police on the day that this would have happened anyway.

I met a good friend for a coffee today (the one who I'd texted and asked to call the police for me). We've been friends since high school, she's know me for [coughs] 28 years. It was a hard discussion at first, she was pretty angry and shaken by being involved (by proxy) in it all, and I realised how unfair I'd been in texting her - I was basically removing responsibility from myself and trying to get someone else to do my dirty work. She was pretty upset as well at what had happened, and at how I seemed to be able to joke about it, talk normally. I'm minimising and normalising everything big time. But we did also talk around it a lot and she was fab.

Although I've asked NSDH to give me a time out for now, I'm still entertaining the idea that we can work on things. I know I could quite easily slip into ordinary conversation with him, normal life (whatever the feck that is for us). I'm squashing down my anger, as I have done all my life. I think I need to get angry in order to push me into doing what I really, really need to - not being married to him any more - but I can't seem to call up my anger. Any ideas?

nini I know exactly what you're saying when you express how hard it is to put into words the outrage and mind twisting but I think your words that you felt mugged were very highly descriptive and I can really understand what you mean. I thi nk the counsellor sounds very ill advised to be frank. The slightest hint of dv should have made red flags dance in front of her eyes. What pony said about having checked out of relationship already also rings very true. I think being on here makes us feel our feelings and experiences are valid, so them becoming concrete makes the fws' behaviour unforgiveable finally, where before we kind of absorbed it and kept the house of cards standing.

Pony your friend hasn't been at the receiving end of ea, dv etc for many years, so naturally she won't understand that we have to joke and minimise because it's the only way to cope, otherwise we'd be screaming non stop and that's not really an option I am glad she was supportive but I hope she wasn't angry with you - you are entitled to ask a friend for support without explanation - and you did explain later. You didn't pass on responsibility, you reached out for help. I have perhaps misunderstood and she was angry with your OH not you? Hope so! You have nothing to reproach yourself with, love.

Bertie interesting to hear about your experience with police, glad it went well. I didn't want to say before but mine wasn't amazing, it was alright but the policewoman I saw a) made it clear this wasn't usually her job and was a trifle annoyed at being landed with me and b) told me outright that she would never put up with this, so she found it difficult to understand my position. However, she was very young and clearly I wasn't talking to the correct person. Having heard your experiences I may call and make an appt with the right specialist at the police station. It's a big step and well done you for making it.

Hi Fingers!

I'm worried about Hilde

Fucking MN ate my post.

Thanks for the link fingers, you are wise as always. . Finding myself nodding along to your posts Bertie, wellies and Curtis, yes I do think I?ve checked out emotionally from our relationship. I admit I will find it hard to ?draw a line? under past issues as there?s so many of them, and frankly I?ve had to put up with so much shitty behaviour from him that I actually don?t really want to. I want answers.

The councillor hasn?t been very vocal throughout, she didn?t say anything when he said I?d wasted police time, or anything about abuse. BUT, I will keep going, for now. If I stop NSDH will see it as proof that I don?t want us to work and pile on the blame. We only have 3 sessions left anyway, so for now I?ll play the game. Frankly, it can?t get any worse. I will be paying very close attention to his behaviour this weekend, he?s already said he ?may? have to do more on his essay. Big fucking surprise there then. And all the while I want to scream ?BUT YOU NEVER HELPED ME!!? I?ve arranged for us to go see my sister one day this weekend (note, again I?m the one who has to arrange everything) so we?ll see how that goes.

What made me laugh was one of things he said we need to ?improve? on ? he wants more cuddles. More. Fucking. Cuddles. Like that will make everything go away, magically make it better. You know what, now I?m pretty pissed. What I?d like to know is why he took his wedding ring off for the very first time ever while drunk on a lads? night out last summer, which he then lost. I want answers, not fucking cuddles.

Anyway, onwards through the shit that is life.

Sorry Curtis, I?ve got no advice on freeing the anger, I?m quite good at doing that naturally myself!

Big hugs hilde, keep staying strong. You've been so brave, you put me to shame. Keep us posted tomorrow!

Hilde I am very glad you and dcs are ok but really feel bad for you that you feel so pressured. But you're making those steps and you will get there in the end Good idea re keys, can you invent an emergency that requires you to be out tomorrow (family or something) to avoid him? When I last broke up with my fw years ago, he determinedly stayed in the most miserable and uncomfrotable situations, completely unnecessarily, this was pre kids, he was a young man in full time employment and I even offered to pay a month's hotel or b&B accom for him, but no, he had to doss on the floor of his most disorganised smelly friend's disgusting bedsit, waiting like a puppy dog to be allowed back home. Grrr!

nini I am glad you're pretty pissed - not sure if you mean in anger or but either way it's great to let that anger out, go nini Serious though your situation is, I hope you don't mind me having a sympathetic giggle at the expression More. Fucking. Cuddles how stupid are these fws that they think a fucking cuddle (I'm loving that expression) is going to solve years of abuse?!??

I seem to have rustled up some anger this evening, rather unexpectedly. I was reading some of the Red Flags thread and decided to get my journal out (it's not been used of late, I've just felt too weary to write down anything that happens) and copy down the ones that felt familiar. Then I read through some entries from a few weeks ago. Then I thought of a few things that I wanted to record and wasn't sure if I had at the time. Now I see I've written over 8 pages of my A6 notebook this evening! Pen was almost leaving a trail of smoke at times and "ARGH!!" is scrawled several times at the most frustrating points of each story.

Would it help to read through your accounts of the previous few weekends, pony?

Sorry, hilde, x-post. That email reads well - it's clear, firm and respectful. Very nicely put, I think.

Hilde I think your email's great. The only comment I would make is to suggest you delete the line "It was a nice day at times, but more prominent was the feeling that".

Well done, you. Keep your strength up (easy for me to say when I am sitting here with fw thinking I am not going to act. I'm in awe of your strength) Good luck.

wellies i know what you mean about the journals, re-reading mine left me devastated with shock. All in one go, the drip drip is taken away and the full force is revealed..............

You're not alone, Hilde, you have the power of mn and this thread and the awesome ladies on here behind you at every step. Hugs.

Keep strong Hilde
Keep all communication to a minimum as it will be twisted to hurt you.
Keep posting.
These are the posts that keep us all going.
Bertie how are thinks going?