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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

999 replies

foolonthehill · 10/09/2012 10:02

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
NiniLegsInTheAir · 23/09/2012 17:44

No experience here I'm afraid 1612. Sad

Thanks for the kind words Kaykat and trying. DD is 20 months old so about the right for what you describe trying. Plus she doesn't see him as much as she does me so maybe it's the novelty. It's been raining here all day so we've been cooped up. NSDH has been in front of the TV for the football almost since he got up, so I had my usual meltdown moment mid-afternoon when I begged him to let me go for a nap as I havn't been without DD all weekend (I also came on this morning and the first day hits me like a hammer). But instead of having half an hour I had an hour and a half coz I fell into a deep sleep and now he's grumpy. C'est le vie. Counselling tomorrow.

Lemon I hope for your sake it's neither of those things you fear! Fingers crossed, keep us posted in FWH developments.

Bertie glad you had fun at the party Smile

LemonDrizzled · 23/09/2012 17:53

This rain is dreary. The answer seems to be plenty of tea and telly and catching up on jobs indoors.

Latest unnerving move by FWH. He phoned and asked to come round to collect our marriage certificate and talk about bank accounts. I was imagining all sorts of shenanigans and emotional outbursts. But he just came for a pleasant chat and a cup of tea and left...

Maybe, just maybe, he actually respects me and wants to be better friends??!!

Nini didn't you let your FW have yesterday to himself for studying and going out? You shouldn't feel guilty for sleeping for 90 minutes! You earned it.

lostmywellies · 23/09/2012 20:31

Nini - if he was just watching the telly, what does it matter to him how long you sleep?!

ponygirlcurtis · 23/09/2012 21:02

Hilde, hope you are doing ok this eve, that list is not minor at all - and for it all to be in one day, just awful for you. And after all that, for him to think he's still entitled to sex (and asking in such a charming way Hmm) shouldn't be how you have to live.

1612, if you feel you really need to get out, I would speak to Women's Aid. Hope you're doing ok too.

I am very much not doing ok. Although that's not true. I'm not feeling anything, I just feel numb. Horrific, awful weekend. Don't really know where to start.

Nini, you said to me on Friday:
I honestly don't think you're gaining anything by maintaining this kind of contact. I also don't think he'll ever listen to you as he seems stuck on 'me' mode. Be careful.

You were so, so right. Sad

Will try and get my thoughts together to post it all. I need a few Wine tonight.

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 21:17

Wow lemon I hope it is that re your FWH - that he's grown to respect you? I wonder if there's some self-hatred deep down in these EA guys that makes them disrespect the one they're with until their partner finally gives them the boot and then and only then (after initial fury etc) do they respect them, because they know deep down they themselves are a fw and to earn their respect we have to reject them?!? IYSWIM! If that's the case they can blooming well keep their effing problems and move right along, thank you very much. I am so sick of FW being so downright difficult, miserable and joy-sucking - like the dementors in Harry Potter. I really hope your FW is going to give you the peace and respect you deserve now, anyway.

Nini you bloody well deserve your nap as lemon said. You have a very young child, he had his time all day yesterday and is watching footy all day today, why shouldn't you have a well deserved rest Smile I hope you enjoyed it, you certainly deserved it!

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 21:20

Pony x post, so sorry to hear you feel so shatteringly numb, you poor love. I am here having my last Wine of the weekend, am joining you in spirit (pun intended) and hope we on this lovely thread can help you when you feel up to marshalling your thoughts on here. Strength and hugs to all. xxx

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 21:23

PS a tin of beans flew out of the kitchen cupboard and landed on my head today - am now wondering if FW is in fact a dementor and organised it Wink

NiniLegsInTheAir · 23/09/2012 21:25

Well, NSDH doesn't like 'being disturbed' by DD if he's watching the footy, much like he doesn't like 'being disturbed' when studying or going out. There's a theme here huh Hmm. And actually I woke up in a fluster realising I'd overslept and staggered downstairs half asleep to placate him. Fool.

Lemon I really hope he's learnt to respect you! But you're right to be wary, men like these have form. Trying not to be a misery but I'd be suspicious of alterior motives if this is unusual for him.

Curtis, are you ok? Sad

Trying, dementors is right! I used the words 'emotional vampire' to describe NSDH with the Relate counsellor last week.

MulliganandOHare · 23/09/2012 21:28

Hi all. Sorry I can't post as often as I'd like but I still live with mySTBFWXH and he seems to have made it his purpose to work from home over these last few weeks so have very little privacy. I have read the threads with interest though, which continue to make me realise how fucked up he continues to be and always will be.

However, I have very surprisingly managed to find myself completely detached. I don't know when it happened, maybe discovering his - I think - 5th inappropriate contact with other women, then reading about EA experiences here, but now I really couldn't give a hoot what he does. I don't care what he thinks of me. When he snipes at me with some crap about the house or dc I give him as good as he gets -and more. It's amazing how much ammo there is actually, that I was too afraid? to say before, or maybe I didn't want to rock the boat. Now the boat is sinking (ooh I love analogies) he finds himself stammering and not able to argue back.

The moral high ground feels good.

Don't expect respect, these men don't know the meaning.

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 21:28

Yes, emotional vampire, what a good phrase, how true!

NiniLegsInTheAir · 23/09/2012 21:29

Trying, evil beans! Hope your head was ok Wink

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 21:32

Hi Mulligan - I know exactly what you mean - now that I don't give a shit about FW anymore (well I do in some ways but am not dependent on him IYSWIM) I find myself speaking my mind - it actually puzzles and surprises him Grin - your analogy hits the spot with me, it's such a relief to stand back and let the stupid boat sink that I've been keeping afloat for years with all my emotional and physical (ie becoming ill) strength.

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 21:33

Yes, the beans are possessed!

MulliganandOHare · 23/09/2012 21:33

Oh yes, dementors. They suck the happiness out of people. More analogies!

Will try a proper emoticon...

MulliganandOHare · 23/09/2012 21:34

Bugger...

Grin
tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 21:34

PS I ATE the bastard evil beans Grin

MulliganandOHare · 23/09/2012 21:42

Yes Tryingto! He says things like 'I'm not around next weekend', so I might think he's seeing other women, the controlling, manipulative arsehole. I think 'way hay! A relaxing time with the kids'.

Now when can we say that?

Tossed.

MulliganandOHare · 23/09/2012 21:42

*tosser.

And then tossed..

Smile
LemonDrizzled · 23/09/2012 22:11

Trying well done for vanquishing the beans.

Mulligan I remember when I first realised I didn't have to stay with FWH for ever. He had arranged something with a builder I didn't want without asking me and instead of being angry I just relaxed and let it go. It so surprised him! I still chuckle when I see that feature.

I think my FWH is responding positively to me being calm and happy. Win/win.
But I am a natural sunny optimist Smile

NiniLegsInTheAir · 23/09/2012 22:18

Lol at Trying eating the evil beans!

I really hope that you're right Lemon, if so surely that'll make things easier for you. Smile

ponygirlcurtis · 23/09/2012 22:33

Ok. Here goes.

Email that I sent went down ok. He seemed to understand (although talked a lot about changing things so I felt different, not so he behaved different...).
However at about 6pm (he'd already had a fair bit to drink) he kicked off regards my ongoing insistence that I'd be sleeping separately (remember, the one I said was a non-negotiable part of me staying over...?), wouldn't accept my reasons (not that I needed one, I know...). I was all ready to go home, had DS2's jacket on, NSDH was yelling and shouting and slamming that if I left that was it for us. I thought... Hmm ...and decided that was fine with me and carried on getting ready to leave. However, I didn't. The guilt he was piling on me about his daughters (who I love very much) worked. Angry After he knew I was staying (ie I'd put DS2 to bed) he apologised and said he'd been completely in the wrong. But I was furious with him and basically didn't speak to him for the rest of the eve - i went and sat with both girls in their bedroom and watched a film with them.

When the girls went to bed I did go through and sit with him in the living room, next to him on the sofa, but he was quite drunk by now (easily 2 bottles of wine, plus cider, whisky) and it inevitably kicked off over nothing. It was like being transported back to being pregnant - stone cold sober, watching him all swallied up and giving out to me endlessly, rambling, contradicting. I tried to go to bed, he yelled and yelled at me (scaring the hell out of me), followed me to bathroom and continued. Finally went to bed (on my own), shattered (although FW watched TV passed out on sofa extremely loudly in room below where I was sleeping till 4am, so not much sleeeeeeep.).

In morning, I thought about just going when I got up. I should have. But I felt I couldn't do that to the girls. Stupid, stupid me.

He came down when I was feeding DS2 brekkie. Asked me about my plans for the day - this is a common tactic of his, forces me to come out with something which is then open to comment/ridicule/him kicking off and being able to blame me. I said I was going to go soon after brekkie - meaning only that I was going home, nothing more. He started asking about what kind of divorce I wanted, what I wanted to do about the house. Since he was talking like that, I responded, talking about a quick divorce, selling house, etc. DSD2 came in, he immediately told her that she better not get too comfy in her room because I was abandoning the family so we'd need to sell up and have all that upheaval again. Much to-ing and fro-ing, him shouting and saying horrible things to DSDs about me, saying again if I left the house that was it, me in no way inclined to stay now and crying, about to go, taking stuff out to car.

But NSDH wont give me DS2. He says I can't have him. He says he's keeping him. Refuses to hand him back.

Then he tells me to leave. Tells me he'll call the police, I have no right to be there now. Shouts repeatedly. Tries to get me to leave, I wont. Grabs me hard on the arm, pushes/manhandles me about to get me out the front door. I'm shouting and screaming, resisting, DSDs see it all. NSDH makes me go out the car and get sleeping stuff for DS2, tries to lock me out (but I grab his door keys, hahahahahahahaha so he can't). He wants me to go but I refuse. After what happened to my godmother's grandson, there's no way I'm leaving without my son.

So, i agree to sit and talk calmly gulping down my panic with NSDH after he's put DS2 down for a sleep. My plan is actually to lull him into letting his guard down then make a grab for DS2 and run for it. He says all the right things - he's so sorry, he's been awful (no shit), he's just been on the defence because he could feel me pulling away (yes, because he was being so awful!!!)

So I stay. But mainly to keep things calm so I can leave with DS2 when I want. Still shaking, I spend the morning with DSDs (who both are appalled and horrified with their dad, again) doing girly stuff. Bless them, they did my hair, make-up and nails for me! I leave as soon as I can with DS2 (after lunch, so girls are still there and I'm not left on my own with NSDH).

I know I should've called the police - I did actually text my friend and ask her to call them (because if he'd heard me calling things would have got much worse), but her phone wasn't on. But I plan to call the DV unit tomorrow.

He wants us to keep trying. I'm feeling so numb and could quite easily gloss over all this and keep going, I know I could - I'm lacking in RL support at the moment, because my family have kind of left me to it now. But I know it's time, I can't put the girls through that again, or me. I can only thank God that DS1 wasn't there. I just don't know if I've really got the strength, I feel like I'm hallucinating all this. He's being all lovely again now. I've thought maybe I need to give him ultimatums - no more drink, and find an abuser programme and go on it.

The questions I have are for bertie and hilde, about what happened when you spoke to the police about past incidents? Did they speak to your FWs? Did they log any past incidents that you mentioned?

On the upside, I am currently enjoying an M&S pizza and bottle of wine courtsey of a tenner I found in the pocket of a pair of jeans NSDH left at my flat. Grin Wine I feel that's the least I'm entitled to.

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 22:40

OMG Pony ........... what a horrific weekend, I am SO sorry. My jaw was on the floor as I read your post. Thank GOD you got DS2 out and DS1 wasn't there. Thank god you're back in safety. And poor DSDs. Lots and lots of strength and sympathy along the ether to you from me. I am very glad you found that tenner and have your pizza and Wine. Hugs xxx

tryingtoescape · 23/09/2012 22:46

PS FWIW I logged two DV incidents with police (ages after they happened and that was ok). They said they'd mark it down as something... can't remember what, but it meant my address had a mark against it that if I called the police from it in future, it would show as a flag of some sort and I guess I would be responded to appropriately.... it was all a bit difficult at the time and my memory has wiped it a bit. They didn't speak to fw as I didn't file a charge or whatever the term is, but they still logged it. I also logged it with my solicitor and kept notes on my private (dated) blog.

lostmywellies · 23/09/2012 22:52

"He wants us to keep trying." Yeah, right. What he means is he wants you to keep trying. While he continues his chaotic, rage-filled path of destruction.

That is one scary day you've had, ponygirl. I wouldn't give him ultimatums. I'd give him no contact. But I'm not there; I don't really know how it is.

Those poor girls. But you can't save them by losing yourself.

Glad for the tenner - not to mention your presence of mind in grabbing his house keys earlier! Yay for you!

unhappyhildebrand · 23/09/2012 22:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.