Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

onesixe so sorry you're feeling so down. It is awful that weekends become so difficult. I hope you remain safe this weekend and it doesn't get too bad. Like they were saying up post, don't forget the army of mn-ers at your elbow, on your side. xxx

pony I am now having my bit early but sod it........I hope you are going to give yourself a nice evening. lemon's words sound wise and helpful, don't blame yourself, we could all blame ourselves, but we're not to blame.

Lol Curtis, I'm not Welsh but went to a Welsh uni, I think a few customs rubbed off on me .

Agree with 1616, it's the weekend again...NSDH wants tomorrow morning to 'study' (I stupidly agreed when every part of me wanted to scream at him "WHEN DID YOU EVER DO THAT FOR ME????!!!!"). Then he's going to a beer fest in the afternoon/evening - boys only. I intend to milk it for all it's worth on Sunday and hopefully get some me time.

Really don't fancy tonight, what I want is a nice Chinese takeaway. Won't happen, NSDH being as tight as he is with money. He's already got the hump with me for putting the heating on as I was cold - not before the 1st October oh no the world will end!

Will be thinking of everyone this weekend. May children be good and FWs be absent or at least silent.

one six, I was thinking about you earlier, wondering how your week had been after the counselling. How's things?

Thanks Lemon. I agree that the bedroom stuff is definitely boundaries, and he is massively over-stepping them. But generally I'm not very good at being 'selfish', ie doing what I want to do over what someone else wants to do/wants me to do. But am practising.

Am joining you trying with my nice dinner - steak & chips, courtesy of the supermarket's 'massively reduced because just about to curl up and die' section. NDSH hates going over the sell-by dates for anything. I'd happily eat anything unless it was green and smelled funny. (and even then, i still like sprouts...) And very much enjoyed my NSDH-free day - went into town, in my new jacket, first time on (racy!!!) and suddenly remembered I had a lippie in my bag - haven't put lipstick/gloss on for months. Sunny, bit of an autumn feel in the air, nice afternoon. Had lovely eve back at home with DS2. Just so nice, so enjoyable, am not feeling down or depressed at all. No texts from him, no phonecalls. He'll be drunk by now anyway (in house on own) so putting phone on silent.

wellies - I've written a letter, do you think emailing it would be ok? Otherwise will have to write it all out, but if handwritten is generally better IYO then that's what I'll do.

Nini - glad that some Welshness has rubbed off, i think everyone needs a little valleys in their life! At one point (many, many years ago) I could sing the Welsh national anthem (In Welsh). Go for your Sunday me-time - tell your NSDH about it, don't ask.

Oh pony he is really horrible to you isn't he? I agree that you are NOT being selfish...it's just that he believes you are selfish if you don't do what he wants.

I once made the mistake of saying I was going to be selfish to FWSTBXH. Big mistake. I was trying to explain to him why I wanted to try IVF to have another DC. I had heard a program on the radio about how you shouldn't have a second child JUST to provide a sibling for your first (as there's no guarantee they'll get on!). You should have a second child because YOU wanted to. You have to think selfishly. I told FWSTBXH about all this and said "I'm going to be selfish about this. I want us to try IVF because I want another DC". I thought he understood. He seemed to...he agreed.

Months later he became emotional close with another woman and joined a no-strings sex website. When I found out (two days before I was due to start IVF medication) he said he'd done it because 'he wanted to be selfish too'

I guess my message pony is that men like this will never understand the world in the same way as we do. Their basic moral code is different. He thinks that you refusing sex is selfish because it doesn't match his belief system. He doesn't see his
Insistence on sex as selfish at all. He will never change because he will never really believe he's done anything wrong. In his world he is always right.

It's really hard to make the decision to end it. I struggled for a long time. You may have to gather more 'evidence' before you get to that point.

Please do take care in the meantime though xxx

I've just recently moved to Wales and am thoroughly enjoying a little valleys in my life! :o

Ooh, I don't know about the letter - I think I got the idea from St Lundy, actually, in Should I Stay or... I reckon emailing is just as good as handwritten, but you know, I think you should email it tomorrow instead of going, having said what Lemon said to him. That'd be the ideal way, I reckon. Bit about handing out advice, though!

Joining you in a to go with my [choc] and Tom Jones! Very unlike me to help myself to a glass - that's your good influence, folks... I'm a bit surprised at myself today because I mentioned to the doctor about EA. First time talking irl face-to-face about it! First counselling session next week... Told NSDH about it, and then thought: why did I do that? Well, he was rather negative about it, but I just didn't talk so the conversation died. He said, "I still don't understand why you want to do this, I think we should be able to sort things out by ourselves." And I (proud of this!) said, "That's ok, I don't need you to understand." He said other stuff about it being his money that was paying for it and I ignored the bait. I expect he's forgotten about it all already: if he doesn't like something, he just ignores it.

Cheers!

You know what, nini? A chinese sounds great, you have one if you want one.
pony you are a saint. He is not a saint, he is a selfish (insert expletive here).
Thanks for thinking of me, I'm ok. It's been a quiet week so far, just dour really. He's only EA when drunk and he usually only drinks at weekends, hence my dread of weekends.
The counselling went well for a short 30 minute session. It was quite funny, the counsellor cut striaght through everything - she had his number.
I know everyone says don't go to counselling with an EA man but I feel that I am in the process of ending my marriage and for myself I need to know I have done everything I can to make it work before I walk away.
wellies I love Wales and Tom Jones.

Wishing everyone well for the weekend x

He's on TV, of course, not my new neighbour...

Hope you're enjoying the Welshness, wellies. I used to love going to Ogmore beach, and to Barreeeeee. Glad we're influencing you to a glass if that's what you want to do. I think you you mentioned it to NSDH so you didn't have to worry about keeping it secret. Now you don't, because he's still uninterested. Which is awful, but part of the reason why you need to go for counselling in the first place.

I remember the first time I mentioned to a medical professional (midwife, on both occasions of being pregnant ) about FWPs. Both were incredibly supportive for the time I was seeing them. But telling them was a big, emotional deal. Really glad you did it. Does it feel like step forward? Counselling will feel like a gift to yourself.

bertie, am totally at your DH's timing to be selfish. It's just an excuse. Unmitigated twat. But I think you have it - their moral code is different. But I still struggle with that, because my NSDH seems to normal, loving and affectionate in other ways. But last night I could see it quite clearly, it was like stepping out of myself, I could see him being totally selfish and entitled.

wellies I was envisaging some Cerys Matthews/wellies/Tom Jones situation, baby it's cold out there in Wales even though it's only September (cos it is here in Scotland too!).

onesix, my DS1's dad wasn't even an abusive twat when drunk, he was usually quite jolly (but just very, very, very drunk, unable to get up the stairs himself, etc). And I still left him, had to leave him, because he made his drinking more important than his family and that's not good. And five years on I still think I did the right thing, although I'm angry at him for throwing away what we had. But the spectre of the drinking casts a pall over your whole life - not for him, but for you. Add his abusiveness into that - you've already done everything you can to make it work. You could pour your whole life into him and it wouldn't make a difference. You can already end things knowing you've more than done enough.

pony oh absolutely!
I'm not going into counselling with optimism - at all!
But circumstances mean I'm stuck here for a while so if nothing else I'm hoping it smoothes the path while I'm here (if that makes sense?)

:o Yeah, we're jamming together in our slippers. So sexy!

Does feel like a step forward. It was so good to have someone listen, take it seriously but not put any pressure on about anything. I presume he'll make a note of it and it's nice to think there's a record of my concerns. I'm impatient to get the counselling started. I do hope the counsellor and I get on; I'm setting a lot of store by this (or whatever the expression is - gone to the head).

Right, am off to read the narcissism book before bed. Night all!

Mmmmm, wellies, not sure. I told my midwife, was sure that there would be note of it, but my health visitor said nothing had been passed on (although she's taken extensive notes now that are on file). Maybe check what the procedure is next time you see them, regarding it being logged, in case that's what you're wanting but it's not happened.

I've put phone on silent - two missed calls & text messages from NSDH in last half hr, with slightly drunk-sounding voicemails. First asks if I've got someone else there, and that's why I'm not answering. Second says 'you've obviously got someone else there...'. honestly!!!!

Sat in a cafe with a coffee while DD sleeps, been out all morning so he can 'study'. So tired, just want to go home & curl up. He's acting the martyr, saying if he doesnt finish he cant go out drinking later. I told him he's had months to do this essay so its his own fault. And yet here i am, tiptoeing around.

Nini, that's just awful. You're right, it's his own fault, but he's expecting you to fix it - and I imagine if he doesn't get it finished, it'll somehow be your fault. Maybe you should go back, if he needs peace & quiet he should go to the library or something, he can't surely expect you & DD to stay out all day? There's only so many and cake you can enjoy...

I have sent NSDH an email listing all the things I feel were wrong about Thursday night, I think they are all fairly fact-based, nothing he can really deny - I said he ridiculed me, he intimidated me, he undermined me, he refused to pay any attention to my boundaries in bed. I asked him what advice he'd give his daughters if they were being treated as I am. And I've said that if he can't accept that it's my body so my decision and he's not to make me feel guilty for that, then I wont be staying over tonight (so, obviously, he'll agree to that, I should have asked him that face to face rather than giving him that prompt, that was silly of me). But I've also said I want us to sleep in separate beds if I stay and that's non-negotiable. So although I am still saying I'll stay over, I'm trying to be a bit firmer. Baby steps.

ponygirl I'd be tempted to invent someone. It might help you to detach, even though it's pretend! And show NSDH in his true colours - though tbh he is already doing this. He's just using 'working on the relationship' as emotional blackmail, as you well know.

nini I never commiserated on your exam. But you had such a lot to deal with. Hope the coffee and cafe are nice, even though you are so tired.

I am strimming the 'woodland meadow' (one end of our tiny garden) ready for winter. The house is getting slowly better, though I am fighting off a feeling of overwhelm which manifests as finding it hard to get going. But at least it stays clean now, and destructive gardening is v satisfying.

Silver, that's a wickedly good idea... Nice to think about, although I'd never do it, I'm a terrible liar and always tell the truth when pressed!!!

I know what you mean about feeling overwhelmed by everything that needs doing. You'll feel loads better for slashing about in the garden for while though, and then you've also achieved - everyone's a winner!

Ok ladies I have a dilemma and I need your opinions please...

DS has been invited to a party tomorrow. The invite was emailed to mums AND dads of the 3 kids that are going. There will be food for adults too...so it's not just a kids party IYSWIM? It's more of a social thing as all the parents know each other quite well.

STBXH works with party girls mum (and so sees her socially on works nights out). I am friends with her (go out for meals, meet for coffee, do exercise classes etc). Neither of us know party girls dad that well.

Anyway, i had replied to email ages ago saying DS would love to come and so would I. I didn't answer for STBXH but ccd him in on the email so he'd know I'd replied. I wasn't sure whether he was planning on going as he didn't tell me or cc me in on any reply....

Anyway, he announced to me last week that he would take DS to party and that he didn't want me to be there. I said that I'd been asked too, and had accepted. He said it would 'be uncomfortable' if I was there. I was a bit WTF? (as he'd never even offered to take DS to a party by himself before let alone insist on it) but I didn't engage and just left it. I knew my friend would understand if I didn't go (she's lovely).

Yesterday STBXH and I were working out child care arrangements for weekend and I said something about taking DS out in afternoon if he was taking him to party in morning. He turned round an said that he'd been thinking about it and had talked to party girls mum and he had decided that it would now be ok if I went!

I asked him why he hadn't wanted me to go in first place. He said it was because one of the other mothers who will be at the party will be there...and he was worried that if I was there too it would be uncomfortable. However this other mother is MY BEST FRIEND! I didn't understand what he meant at first. I questioned him further. He knows that my best friend has been told EVERYTHING about our relationship breakdown. He also suspects because it's bloody obvious that she does not have a very high opinion of him. So...he was happy to go along to party by himself (when she was there) but thought that if I was there too it would be uncomfortable.

I would have thought that if he was uncomfortable being around my best friend (because she knows what a FW he is) then he would decide NOT to go to this party at all? In fact he would avoid her full stop? Or am I missing something here?

Anyway....my question!

Shall I go to the party?

....part of me thinks that I just don't want to do any socialising with him AT ALL now. Especially since he's been posting stuff on FB about me (BTW some people seem to have noticed and have told me they've blocked him too).

I also think I don't want to go now that he's 'considered' it and has deemed it ok! He even said yesterday..."but DS will be upset if you don't go"!

Arrrghhh

Hi Bertie

Situations like this are tricky and good training ground for your future as a co-parent with the FWXH.

I try to think "what is best for my DC?" and do that. It maybe that your DS would like to have you both there like the other kids do. Or he maybe uneasy about any tensions between you and prefer just one relaxed parent.

What would he say do you think? Could you drop him off, have a quick drink and chat and leave FWXH to bring him back afterwards? Your friends would totally understand.

Hi Bertie Welcome to the lose/lose situation that is being separated from a Fuckwit :(
Very little you can do about it.
Stop even ccing him on emails unless absolutely necessary - they can and will be used against you at all future times :(

Hey fingers how is the new term? Are you sorted for housing and work? Are you near your DC? I've been wondering how it is all working out for you.

I have had a lovely week ferrying my DDs and all there belongings back to Uni

their even

Hi ladies, I'm new on here and would like some advice. How do you deal with H giving you verbal abuse, swearing and calling you names. If brief here's my situation, my H had a affair for a couple of months (and blamed it all on me). After that I asked him to move out but he still comes home at the weekend and I can't stop that (jointly owned house). I will probably start Dv proceedings soon, just finding it hard to pluck up the courage as I know it will get ugly. One DS. If H wants me to agree to something he starts off being nice but if he can't control me he gets verbally abusive as he did yesterday. I asked him to stop several times but otherwise did not engage. Is that the best way to react? Luckily he has now gone away for the weekend.

fingers is it always going to be like this?

lemon to be honest if DS was asked he would probably say he wants me to take him and doesn't want daddy to go!

The thing is I know that FW isn't taking DS because he's thinking of DS (as I said he's never offered before)...he's doing it for himself....his work colleagues will be there....he wants to show them what a great dad he is...will make a BIG show of playing with everyone's children. It's not about DS it's all about him. He's shown absolutely no interest in taking DS to any other parties recently or any others that are coming up. It's only because his work colleagues will be at THIS PARTICULAR party that he wants to be there...

I'm not sure I can cope with watching him play Superdad...

Hi Bertie. From what I have gathered from the wise women on this thread, We go from strength to strength. FWs, on the other hand, get worse when we leave them.
Don't worry about superdad - it won't last; they really can't keep it up.