Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: 11

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Done it...he's blocked!

I feel SO much better for doing that...he'd been making sarcastic comments for ages. He wanted to know why I didn't post that he'd been looking after me while i was ill....er...because I was really ill?!

He also shouted at me a few weeks ago because I'd 'liked' a friends post about karma...it meant a lot to her because she worked for the NHS all her working life and in the end her managers treated her like shit. She ended up with depression and taking early retirement. So thinking about karma is working well for her and I love her and want to support her.

Of course FW thought that me 'liking' her post was all about getting back at him....

Anyway now I am free! (in Facebook land at any rate)

Hilde I think you may be married to my FW? That so mirrors my sort of experiences with the FW at this end

Mine's just buggered off to bed so for once I have downstairs, telly and everything all to myself, yippee do dah! Sad, the tiny pleasures I get so bloody excited about

Nini I am feeling quite inspired by biscuit gate. Subversive rebellion while we plot escape.....

ps hilde I am joining you in a glass of red. Cheers.

anything good (by which I mean good-crappy) on the box tonight to go with my glass of red btw?

Biscuit-gate been chuckling to myself with that one all day xx

cheers lovely laydeez

Because we have so much life, happiness and spirit in us, currently trapped in the ice berg of FWittery, but oozing out the minute we have a moment to ourselves.... how's that for random nuttery

BTW OMG the new Dallas - is filling my soul with joy....or is that the vino?

GO BERTIE!!! That is all.

Hilde, am so glad you got the book, and it's helping you see more clearly. I'm trying to read more of it this morning after an utterly horrendous evening with NSDH last night, reading it is making me very sad because I can quite clearly see that things are the same as when we were living together. I hoped they'd changed. Last night was so awful, I'm going to have to do bullet-points because otherwise it'll be an epic post (more epic than already, I mean)...

So. Thursday night is our 'date' night - he comes to my flat after work and we have a nice dinner, watch a DVD or similar.

• He'd been there about half an hour when he spotted a 70th birthday card I'd bought for a friend of the family (someone who was at our wedding). He asked about having his name on it when I signed it, because we were still husband and wife, etc. I've been lurking on the 'how to get over being a people-pleaser' thread and decided to try being more assertive rather than just agreeing (I've ordered a book off Amazon too). I said I didn't feel comfortable putting his name on. It obviously wasn't a request, more a demand, because me saying no kicked off a massive argument during which he slammed a door, shouted at me, twisted my words (kept saying I said we weren't husband and wife and talking about us having an open relationship in that case, despite me explaining repeatedly that I'd meant we weren't living as husband and wife, ie we had separate homes). He eventually apologised for slamming the door (He said he thought it wouldn't slam because it was on carpet...) and said he understood how that made me feel and he was sorry. We made up/moved on as usual.

• While we were eating, he asked what would be happening on Saturday. Now, I was meant to be looking after my niece for my sister. Mum normally does it but is at a wedding. A couple of days ago my sis texted me to say she no longer wanted me to do it - because we've not been talking (because she doesn't agree with me still seeing NSDH) and because she doesn't want me to take DN to house if NSDH will be there (although I'd already said I wouldn't be doing that). I am really hurt by this, hadn't mentioned it to NSDH because felt it was fuel for him. So I glossed over it. Not looking after DN any more, I said, but I'll still drop of DS2 to you because I'd like to have the afternoon to myself. I've got work to do, plus I need to do a shedload of cooking and freezing of meals for DS2. Would come up later in the afternoon, 4pmish. NSDH sits back, all huffy. Turns out he's livid that I'm in some way 'dissing' his daughters by choosing to not spend the afternoon with them. I obviously don't care about them (he said), I'm selfish. I try to put my point across, I have stuff to do, I get very little time alone, I'll only be a few hours, I was due to not be there anyway, girls will probably be at their friend's anyway. But no. He finishes dinner, tosses the plate on the floor. I ask him to leave. He laughs at me.

• Then he starts asking me how I did the chicken, what I'd done to it, had I wrapped it in chorizo myself. He knows fine well (because he saw it in the fridge and commented on 'chicken-in-a-basket') that I bought the chicken wrapped in chorizo already in a foil platter, ready for the oven. Given all the rest of what happened last night, this is minor, but still bugged me. He went on and on about just asking, just being interested. Then says he knows I didn't make it myself, because you can't cook meat worth fuck . I end up apologising to him for over-reacting at being asked about how I cooked it.

*I suggest we just go to bed, am exhausted with all this arguing. So we do. We start kissing, he's rubbings me all over. I'm ok with this, just about, I've moved on a bit from last weekend when I didn't even want to kiss. But I want to take things slow. He puts his hand down my pants, I move it away. He does it again a few minutes later, I do the same. This happens at least another once or twice before he just goes for it anyway. At this point, i'm ashamed to say, I just went into passive mode. It's what I seem to do, how I cope with the fact that I've tried to establish a boundary that's just been ignored. I just turned into one of those ragdoll cats. He was able to pull me on top of him and basically have sex with me. In the end, he did stop, and I got off. But that's when it all kicked off. Once again, I'm not allowed to not want to have sex. It's natural for him to be getting turned on, I'm a tease for being on/off with the sex (urrrr?), he'd rather he didn't fancy me because I was ugly and fat , we need to be having a proper 'relationship' (ie sex) if we're going to move forward, he's fed up with me and my games. He was poised to strip the duvet off me a couple of times but obviously thought better of it!

• This morning, I was in tears before he left, he was talking about us splitting if I didn't resume sex or if I didn't see him that night so we could 'have a good night'. I lost it a bit and told him he was an areshole, entitled, selfish ('back at you' he said, wtf?). He left but came back up, because he could hear me crying on the stairs and I was showing myself up risking someone coming to investigate. Despite being hysterically crying, I was fine within five minutes of him going.

• He's now texted saying he loves me, hopes I'm feeling better. Has left a voicemail (I was getting the baby up) saying the same. He'll be finished work in a couple of hours and will be wanting us to go for lunch or something. I know it. I don't want to be stuck in this obviously-going-nowhere marriage, but i just can't seem to make the break. Help!

Ok, sorry for posting again, congrats if you actually made it through my last epic post! I'm posting again more just to log this for my own sake.

NSDH phoned. I'm pleased to say I said I didn't want to meet up for lunch or see him this evening. For once, he accepted that and didn't kick off trying to make me feel guilty for not putting in any effort. So I'm not seeing him today. (but although I'm pleased with myself for saying, I also know it's only happening that way because he's 'allowed' it, if he'd kicked off I almost certainly would have given in, I know it.)

The rest of the phonecall: he asked if I was ok. I said I was struggling. (again, he said 'so am I' almost before I'd finished speaking) He asked about what I was doing tomorrow (the day I'm 'dissing' his daughters), because he'd now remembered that his mum was coming over and he knew I didn't want to see her (now I know how she treated NSDH as a child, I don't want to be in the same room as her), so it was now ok if I wasn't there in the afternoon. But no reference to our argument about it.

I said I would come up tomorrow after MIL gone (although I don't want to do that at all), but I wanted to talk about stuff. I felt there were a lot of things I wanted to say after last night, I needed him to listen to them. Fine, but you'd better be ready to hear what I've got to say too, I'm entitled to my own opinion and you'd better believe you'll be hearing it. Oh deep joy, more about how awful I am, how fed up he is.

But anyway. Tha'ts tomorrow. Today, the day is my own, and it's sunny, so am feeling ok now I know I wont be seeing NSDH. DS1 is away at his dad's for the holiday weekend, so no school runs or anything. I'm going to put DS2 down for his nap, eat a nice lunch, go down town for a wander (and to pick up a parcel from the PO, it's the grobags I ordered for DS2, is it sad to be excited about that? ). Hope you all have a good day too. Will maybe see you tonight for a glass of red and some tv that's what I want to watch so might be able to see some comedy rather than more documentaries....

(promise this will be my last post...)

Just remembered that last night, while berating me for my lack of desire for sex, he said he would just have to go somewhere else for sex, go and find someone else. I told him to go on and do it, he acted all hurt as if he hadn't just suggested it!!!!!!!! Lordy. I could fill up this whole thread with the stuff that's coming back to me from last night. I wont though, promise!

Oh Curtis, my heart's breaking for you reading that. What an utter, utter FW he's being to you. I've got to ask, lovely, what are you holding on to? These date nights don't seem to make you feel better about your relationship with him, and at him slamming a door, throwing a plate on the floor and insulting your cooking! Who the hell does he think he is?

I honestly don't think you're gaining anything by maintaining this kind of contact. I also don't think he'll ever listen to you as he seems stuck on 'me' mode. Be careful.

And you're not sad for being excited about a parcel, I picked up a parcel of carpet samples this morning I've been waiting for, was so excited myself

Oh Pony love, I am so sorry. That all sounds awful. I second what Nini said about at what he did and about being careful. xxxx So glad you're having a day of happiness today. You will manage to end it eventually, you've been incredibly strong and resourceful getting into separate accom, which makes the final split easier when your head's in the right place to do it. And the grobags sound fab I really hope you enjoy that little moment of fun and happiness. See you tonight for glass of red maybe!

Yay for grobags - only way to keep babies warm once they start moving around the cot, I reckon. I had one once which had a hole in the back to put a seatbelt through - I LOVED that grobag more than one should love an inanimate object. :o

Anyway. ponygirl. You KNOW that if you try to talk, he won't listen and what's more, he will be more concerned with talking about himself. You KNOW that he'll put more pressure on you to work at this relationship when all you know is that you enjoy the few days you get that are FW-free.

So. Here's an idea. Write to him instead. That way, you still have the communication you want with him, there's still the contact you can't quite break from (yet!), but you may just make it through one more day this week without him. And he doesn't get to hurt you again. Write the letter that breaks it off if you can. You don't have to send that one yet. Write the letter about last night - all that crap he dished out at you and you took because you are convinced that there is a good side to people and they shouldn't be written off. Because you are so much better, kinder a person than he is.

You'd have to decide how you'll deal with his pressurising, of course, cos he won't like the detaching. Personally, I think I'd say over and over to myself, "I'm having another FW-free day; I don't have to justify that to anyone," while blocking his calls/texts/fb/whatever.

You poor thing - you can't move on with your life at the moment. With all this logging, though, I think you are starting to realise that there is absolutely no chance of a future unless NSDH has a personality transplant. And they take years, not days. Don't go for a total break if you're not strong enough. Give yourself one more day without him and congratulate yourself when you get through it.

a future with him, that is, of course.

What an absolute shit he is Pony.

I am still here. Still all spaghetti headed. I swing wildly between wanting a way out, panicking that it's over, knowing it's abusive, kidding myself that we are deeply in love but both complicated and it's just dramatic, tempestuous and tragic yada yada yada.

I went away, and there's a chance he will be moving with his job. You can guess this missing him (urgh) and the prospect of him leaving has done nothing but add weight to the love side of things. Note to self: you're not starcrossed lovers.

I understand that completely, Anastasia. I often feel like me & NSDH are in a film or something, it's just such drama and passion. I read something this morning (might have been a post on here somewhere) about the early days being like a film - all amazing connections and movie-love. But movies are fantasy, and so it this feeling I think, but just because it's fantasy doesn't make it any easier to let go of it.

Thanks ladies, one and all, for you kind words and support. I don't know what I'd do without this thread, I feel like my RL support has dwindled away, this is my lifeline.
Nini, you said: I've got to ask, lovely, what are you holding on to?
I think it's that fantasy, of this perfect life in our perfect home with our perfect children. I can't let go of it. But i know I need to.
(BTW, are you Welsh, Nini? I have a couple of fab Welsh friends who call me 'lovely' too. Tidy! Cymru am byth!)

lostmywellies, you're right, I'm slowly getting there (slooooowly), it was happening this morning reading Lundy as well. I had a realisation that I'd had this book about a year now. I was reading the warning signs of abuse and could tick some of them as still happening. And the control tactics in a conflict - it was like a ticklist for last night, they were pretty much all there. I love your idea about writing a letter - I could drop it off to him with DS2 in the morning then disappear for a few hours. I think I will write both versions, and see how brave I feel tomorrow.

Definitely see you later for trying!

Absolutely pony. It's not helped by the fact we each are obsessed with literature, and actually the parallels that can be drawn indicates that all the classics are littered with abusive shits and unhealthy relationships. The mundane does not a good story make, obviously! So not romanticizing it would be helpful for me! I am acknowledging that I am absolutely obsessed with him, and the key lies in undoing that.

Ha, hilde, you are absolutely right, this is my problem because not only am I preventing him from getting what he wants, I'm making him feel that he is bad for wanting it, and we can't have that! But it really is all about him, there was nothing in the sexual contact last night that was about me, that was about helping me feel relaxed or feel turned on, it was just about him wanting to do what he wanted to do.
This morning when I told him he was selfish and he said back at you, he then said 'You've already admitted that you only care about yourself in all of this' - suspect this is because I said a few weeks ago I needed to be selfish and not go to his sister's wedding if I didn't feel comfortable with it. I'm actually a bit proud of being a little selfish, wish i could do it more!

Unfortunately, I can completely see that I'm still being abused. (bloody self-awareness...) That's what makes me so at myself for being unable to disconnect. It's like when I was still living at home, I knew that at some point I'd leave, knew I should do it sooner rather than later, but felt paralysed and couldn't make that break.

How are you doing, how's the reading going? What's the VA Man like? Am wondering about buying it, have the Beverly Engels book coming next week, and a book on assertiveness too! I'm going to read the shit out him!!! [kickass]

The weekend again ......

I disagree that you are being selfish Pony I would use the phrase "setting boundaries" instead. You are trying to assert your right to your own body and he is ignoring that boundary. You are attempting to assert your wishes over the birthday card and he is ignoring you. None of this is you being selfish which implies asserting your wishes while ignoring his boundaries. He has trained you to believe that any time you don't give in to him you are being selfish. But that is bunk! It doesnt sound like a helpful phrase to use as he just turns it back onto you.

Don't blame yourself for struggling to get away from this man. You have been groomed and rewarded/punished for so long it is hard for you to see that you can just say "Actually these date nights are making me miserable I want a break from them".

Can you do something just for you tonight? I'm thinking nice supper, and good TV for starters. You deserve it!