Why have an affair if you dont want to leave your marriage?

[bogeyface]

I am confused.

My H had an affair, and was gutted to be found out as a) he thought he was cleverer than that (Hah! He wishes!!) and b) he desperately didnt want me to kick him out.

But why? I have seen on MN where men get caught and beg to be given another chance and I dont understand why. If you are cheating then surely you have checked out of the marriage emotionally and/or sexually, so why not take advantage of not having to have the "I am lleaving you" conversation and just leave?

I genuinely dont get why so many people cheat but dont want to lose their marriages when they are found out.

I was obviously unwise to use the word "sneer" in my first post, as AnyFucker and others have rightly taken offence.

It's more a feeling of ever-so-slightly tight judgeypants. Sort of "if my marriage can survive it, so should yours be able to, so there must be more to it than just the sexual infidelity". But if as you say it is unusual not to be heartbroken in such a situation then ... I thought I was just realistic/pragmatic.

MN teaches me I am a cold-hearted materialistic caaaah. Every day's a school day.

Ed-

"But can a 'good' person have affairs and still be a good person?

The one who's after me seems so lovely - I've known him so many years - but for his seeming addiction to infidelity. He doesn't fit the stereotype of an arsehole. He's too nice. Just so afraid of honesty I think, or commitment maybe, which makes him drive a wedge between himself and any woman he claims to love - whether she is aware of it or not."

It doesnt matter whether they are good or bad. A serial adulterer/affair haver can come in all shapes and sizes. They are more often than not kind , funny etc.

But they are regularly doing that, they are using relationships/sex to meet some deep seated hurt which they cannot face. And putting their needs, t heart, well above those of all around them who they love, or claim to. Because for those sorts of people, sex/relationships/admiration/conquering, or whatever, is their most important need, in reality. They use it to replace self love and self care, to to replace the care they can get from a real two way relationship involving more effort.

And honesty? They cant even be honest with themselves.

Horatia, I haven't read all of your posts on this, sorry, but I certainly agree with your last few and can relate to what you are saying. I also applaud your candour.

Yes Fiventhree, I concur.

I've always been a (sometimes scrupulously) honest person. This person I know is often not honest - he is in some ways, and considers himself so, but to do this he has to compartmentalise enormously. It is like his reality is different to other people's - I think if his wife actually knew that he was meeting me and talking with me like he does, well I don't know what she would do - probably feel betrayed. I think if sex was involved then she would be very upset.
It's just that apart from being unable to be honest - he seems such a good person.
It seems to be his one area of consistent failure.

I have plenty of failings, just different ones I suppose.
Maybe it is a question of what all parties can really live with. I do still have some love for him, not proper, deep love like the old days when I believed it all meant something, but we get on remarkably well for an honest person and a considerable liar.

If they aren't satisfying you sexually, emotionally, physically then leave simple as. I'd hope my partner cared enough for me in ALL aspects to be honest enough to tell me rather than fuck someone/form an emotional attachment to someone behind my back. It's really not hard to understand or get. I was with my fathers dad for over 6 years, I no longer felt physically attached to him and felt we weren't working and I ended it before moving on to have sex/relationships with others as I don't like hurting people. Quite simple. I don't believe you care for someone as much as you say if your own "security" matters more than the happiness or potential of destroying your partner with an affair...

The thing is, Ed, what do you gain here? Your friendship or relationship with him prevents you from moving on and finding that person who can be what you want.

And if he ever got you full time and totally committed, he will just find someone else, as he always have. You will cease to be a challenge for him, or to offer that newness, or whatever he is seeking.

And why would he ever leave his wife? He is only with her because she is meeting many of his other needs, and he certainly wont want to lose that.

And what is he giving back to her? Poor woman.

I was with my fathers dad for over 6 years

I really hope you means your childs dad!

Thanks for the replies, some interesting thoughts. I have to admit to struggling with Horatios POV but probably thats because everything is still (a year down the line) very raw for me.

I feel a bit sorry for you HoratiaWinwood, no marriage is about just sex, but that doesn't mean that fidelity is just a small percentage of what makes a marriage important. You're pragmatic and that's your prerogative, but sneering at people who have the courage to leave an unfaithful man is bizarre! Would your husband have forgiven you? and believed that that proved his marriage was superior? I think you have given your husband the message that he can have meaningless sex and get away with it.

Maybe because it's possible to love two people at the same time, and to not want to give either of them up.

Fiventhree, well, just responding to your last post here, if it is of interest - I don't think it's preventing me from moving on and finding someone suitable for me. It certainly did in the old days but now I see it as something I can take or leave - we are not that close, and his life with her is far more consistent and important to him than any sporadic contact with me.
Just as mine is more relevant to me than seeing him, though I do like it when we meet up. I've had relationships during the last few years, despite being fairly close with him, and if I found someone I thought was potentially a great partner I'd not look back.

I realise that he would not want to be with me full time, he seems to have this requirement for two people, at least two - I've no idea what he does the rest of the time. He could be having proper affairs with a few other women.

I am sure he doesn't want to lose his wife.

I think he gives her a great deal of support, love and so on - he looks after her children, he does the whole partnership thing with regard to them, is there for her, I suppose everything you might expect from a good husband - but he has this other part of his life which she isn't allowed to know about, I suppose, which yes I find really odd but he seems to be built this way. I doubt he will ever change.
I think tbh I'd almost rather be in my situation where I am aware that he isn't being honest, than in hers where she has presumably no idea.
That does make me feel sad for her. But then, she has his commitment - at least on the surface, and I've never ever had that. So probably he respects her more than he respects me.

It's an intricate situation, very complex, very confusing but quite interesting.

By the way - I think if we did not have a child we were trying to maintain good relations for, we would probably not be in touch at all. It just would not be worth it.
This on-off emotional closeness (and his wanting it to be more) are like a left over tie from when we were together in the old days...we don't know how else to relate to one another, it's comforting and reassuring, to know there is still some mutual understanding there, and that we don't either of us want to argue.
We are both very averse to conflict and very afraid of falling out, so I suppose it balances out the risk of that a bit. It's a bit sad really. And I could easily do without it if we didn't have to be in touch, but we do, so for the time being, we just muddle through, badly, in an attempt to keep things fairly smooth.

I wonder what people think of OW and OM who stay with their spouses in order to give their children security?

I have known 2 women who were the OW. neither wanted to break up their own or their lovers' marriages and family.

Each was very unhappy in their marriage- one went on to divorce in the end when the children were older.

Each found something they needed with their OM- love. They wre in loveless marriages and trapped by finances and a desire not to hurt their children.

I think affairs are incredibly common- more so than people admit. Within my own circle of friends, almost everyone knows someone who's had an affair, has had one themselves, has been sorely tempted, or their partner has had an affair.

I think you both have to be really, really lucky not to ever stray in what could be a 70 year partnership, when there are times when the grass looks greener.

I also believe like Horatio that it's something couples can get over, with enough good will and forgiveness. Not being able to get over it is really all about egos being bruised.

There's an awful lot more to not being able to get over betrayal than 'egos being bruised', MissBoPeep.

I think it depends a lot on firstly your own self-esteem, expectations and personal boundaries and, secondly, what sort of relationshp you have with your partner.

It's interesting to me Horatia that you separate your sexual relationship with your dh from the rest of it - friendship, emotional, financial, etc.

For me it is all one package with love, trust, respect and intimacy in all areas. It seems to me that if you are ok with your dh sleeping with other women, then you actually have an 'open marriage' and that's absolutely fine of course, if that's what you both want.

My relationship is very different and my dh knows that if he cheated on me I would be devastated, I would lose all trust in him, I would lose all respect for him and I would not want to be intimate with him. I know that he feels the same way. It would absolutely be a deal breaker for both of us.

The main reason it would fall apart would not be the actual physical 30 minutes of touching someone else's body and poking around with a penis, it would be the lies. The planning, the sneaking, the secret messaging, the covering up, the not caring about me, the risking losing it all, the total selfishness and lack of respect for our relationship.

But we have a very good relationship and if we didn't perhaps I wouldn't care so much.

^I think tbh I'd almost rather be in my situation where I am aware that he isn't being honest, than in hers where she has presumably no idea.
That does make me feel sad for her. But then, she has his commitment - at least on the surface, and I've never ever had that. So probably he respects her more than he respects me^

Ed I don't think he respects either of you.

I was unable to get over one of my Ex's affairs - not because of a 'bruised ego', but because it showed how little he respected me and my feelings, and I refuse to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't respect my feelings. Not with my family, not with friends, and not with a partner.

I can't speak for other people, but to me the affairs were seen as a way of showing me that he wasn't happy in the relationship, and he couldn't get the sense of 'excitement' he craved from me, so it made sense to me that he should be free of any ties to me, and any responsibility towards me, so that he could chase a series of short-term relationships and shags that satisfied that need he had. I could not provide that, and I could not happily provide an emotionally stable environment for him to return to and feel secure in because I have a need to have my feelings respected, and sexual fidelity in a relationship.

He couldn't provide for my need for sexual fidelity in our relationship as it was at odds with his need for the heady excitement of a new relationship.

Neither need trumps the other, no one should have to ignore their needs for the needs of their partner. My need for sexual fidelity in a relationship was equal to his need for excitement and 'the chase'. Which meant that our needs were at odds with each other, so it was best got us to go our separate ways.

I have also been in an awful relationship, and met someone else. After our first meeting, where all we did was look into each other's eyes, I knew I wanted to have a relationship with him.

But I didn't cheat! I ended the awful relationship first, before taking the relationship with the new man ANYWHERE, even spending any time with him.

Why? Because I respected my partner, despite the awful relationship we had, and didn't want to hurt him by cheating on him.

If you meet someone you want to be with more than your current partner, then you have already emotionally detached enough from your current partner enough to consider being in a relationship with someone else. If you have emotionally detached from your relationship, then you should finish that relationship before starting a new relationship of ANY sort (emotionally too) with anyone else.

I can't abide people who have affairs, then bland their partner by saying that something was lacking in their relationship, and it 'made' them cheat. Why can they not accept responsibility for their own actions, and admit that they made a CHOICE to shag someone else with no thoughts to the consequences and effects on their current partner? Only the cheater makes the choice to cheat. Unless their current partner is holding their dick and pushing it into another woman, or holding their partner's legs apart and pushing another man's dick into her, then the only person responsible for cheating is the cheater.

No one can MAKE you cheat. If something is missing from your relationship, you talk to your partner about it. If your partner cannot or will not provide that need, because their needs are in conflict with your needs, then your relationship needs to end.

And if your partner attempts to provide that need, you do not seek to fulfill that need elsewhere without ending that relationship first.

It's selfishness and uncaring and morally repugnant to fulfill your own needs at the expense of the conflicting needs of someone you profess to love and care for without ending that relationship first.

Do you dump friends if they keep a secret from you? I don't

If my friend and I had made an agreement and she secretly and deliberately broke our agreement and lied to me to make sure I didn't know, even though she knew I would be very upset, I would not really consider her a friend. Would you?

The main reason it would fall apart would not be the actual physical 30 minutes of touching someone else's body and poking around with a penis, it would be the lies. The planning, the sneaking, the secret messaging, the covering up, the not caring about me, the risking losing it all, the total selfishness and lack of respect for our relationship.

Having spoken to several people who had affairs, I think what people who have never been the OW or OM don't get, is the all-consuming passion and sheer lust that often goes with it. People talk of it like a drug- like being on heroin- ( or even something more mundane like smoking) That once you are hooked, even though your rational brain tells you it' s worng, you find it very, very hard to stop. I had a male friend who described it precisely like that- he knew it was wrong but like a junkie he had to keep going back for the sex, and not just that- emotional fixes too.

The risks of being discovered, or the deceit become minute considerations compared to the thrill of being with the other person- I am told. people compartmentalise at the time.

I think the " mistake" people are making here when questioning or condemning affairs is that they are being totally rational in their thinking. But it's not really appreciating the illogical emotions that go with being attracted to another person, and how they overwhelm rational thoughts.

CouthyMow- you're perfect then :)

Sadly not all women or men can live up to your high standards.

The risks of being discovered, or the deceit become minute considerations compared to the thrill of being with the other person- I am told. people compartmentalise at the time

Exactly! In other words, the cheating partner couldn't give a toss about the person they are cheating on.

I guess its a case of the wife being a package deal (house kids marriage etc) but the ow being excitement and sex.
I personally could never forgive my husband if he had an affair, the thought of him touching someone else would drive me mental. Whilst I am very very against infidelity I can see why some people are drawn into affairs. As some one else said its having your cake and eating it. Most people go into affairs with no intention of being caught or leaving the wife. I just hope my husband would tell me he was unhappy in some way before taking that step.
I would hate to be in your situation op and I really hope you come to some sort of conclusion that works for you.

Fairenufff
No. Not exactly.

It's like being ona diet. How many people do you know who eat something they shouldn't, even though their rational brain tells them not to? They want to lose weight ( or they love their partner) but they are able to suspend those feelings just enough to either eat the cake,( or meet the other person.)

It's not rational. It's emotion. I don't think you begin to understand.

Yeah! And at the time they don't give a toss that they're eating something they shouldn't. Could. Not. Care. Less.