Dh will not accept that I want to split up

[Pinkjenny]

i have tried to link to my previous thread but I can't seem to do it on this iPad. I told dh 3 weeks ago that I want to split up. I have told him over and over again. Basically he is following me around the house, sobbing about his kids and what he is going to lose etc etc, telling me i am destroying everyone's lives and threatening to kill himself. He keeps waking me to talk at 3am, waking me with wracking sobs etc. I have never seen this side of him before, I know it is a horrible situation and I honestly am not a bad person, but things have been terrible for so long and I just want to be happy.

Now he is saying that it is up to me to convince him why I don't love him, and explain what I want in a partner, and once he is sure he can't do that or be that, he will accept it.

I am emotionally drained and I can't go on like this. My solicitor has advised me not to leave the house, or that is what I would do.

Yeah, I'm sure the children would prefer a madman storming into their bedroom in the middle of the night, shouting and crying, asking small children why mummy doesn't love daddy that's a really healthy environment to grow up in pft

matilda that is his problem. he has caused this. people who lose the plot because they cannot face a separation do desperate things but the answer is not to pander to theirwhims . many many people sepate it is life -they dont all go crazy. if /hwne they do one needs to be extremely careful and protect oneself and one's dc. yes he maybe needs help but that is for him to seek.

pinkjenny - do call police to report him as mssing and in distress and possiby sufering a breakdown if you feel you need to do something. tho if you dont know where he has gone they will have little to go on.

but do as othesr said, pack and go to your mother or someone. you dont want him returning to the house in some kind of state.

either you leave with dc or you get someone strong to come stay with you 24/7.

these are your only options right now.

1. someone comes to stay with you 24/7 and help support you and keep him out
2. you move elsewhere where he has no right of entry and you can call police if he comes round in any state.

Matilda, it's not like the OP hasn't given her marriage a good go. Life's too short to stay in a loveless marriage forever, and childhood is certainly too short to spend with unhappy parents. His increasingly scary behaviour since the OP told him she was leaving just cements the fact that this is not a man she should stay with.

Lots of people are devastated when their marriages end. Lots of people cry and beg. Some of them post on this board, bewildered and miserable. But most of them don't behave like this, do they? This is not OK. However unhappy he may be, the first concern is for the wellbeing of the OP and kids, which means getting away from him and the emotional abuse - waking the OP at stupid hours of the night, shouting and swearing, manipulating the kids - he's been perpetrating.

Anyone has the right to end a relationship, at any time, just because they want out. Doesn't always mean they've done the right thing, but our kneejerk response to someone leaving an unhappy marriage shouldn't be that they're doing the wrong thing, either. That doesn't help.

Your solicitor should not have advised you not to leave the house. You and your children are being abused, and it will not make any difference to your claim on marital assets if you aren't living there.

c'estlavie is right = either go to your mum's with the children or get her to come and stay.

I'll post some more detailed advice when I'm on my own computer later.

you and dc safety comes first and your solictor needs to know the extent of the possible danger you are in and advise accordingly - first priority right now is you and dc safety. get him away from you. get some breathing space.

( i was looking back at my diary and i wish someone then (shld have been on MN) had said it straight to me then - get out and get away. now!! i let it drag on with him getting increasingly desperate and scary.)

material assets division comes later.

his mental wellbeing? is for him and if needs be profressionals to sort out - you need to call 999 if he approaches and get him removed by police they will decide if he needs medical attention.

Haven't had time to read whole thread so may have already been said but why are you not having counselling unless dh has been abusive then surely marriage shud be for forever. Life is not just about what makes us happy ie I don't love my husband anymore so I will just leave him. And he deserves to be in a family unit with you and his children. Also the children need their mum and dad together. I am sorry but unless he is being abusive you are being very selfish.

Matilda

I'd really suggest you read the whole thread next time, then.

Regardless, wanting a family together doesn't justify his latest behaviour, which is abusive, regardless of what he wants.
And unhappy parents and unhappy marriages are not necessarily the best for children either.
I agree that marriages should be worked on, but there are limits.
And you are out of order when calling the OP very selfish (not even just selfish). There are reasons to end marriages other than abuse.

Pinkjenny

I do hope you have listened to the other pp, and have left the house or have someone with you.

Keep yourself and the children safe. That's your priority.

Sleep deprivation is a form of abuse.
I would just be angry with him at this point and avoiding contact with him as much as possible and getting things moving with solicitors.

Dear god, will you please either have him removed somehow or get yourself out of the house. Yes you are being dense. Sorry, but you're endangering both your own and your DC's lives.

Pinkjenny, are you ok?

Pinkjenny hoping you are ok. Here's some more detailed advice:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce ? Advice and Links
It is useful if you can get to grips with the language of family law and procedure, and get an understanding of your rights, BEFORE you see a solicitor. If you are well prepared you will save time and money.
Children

If there are children involved, their welfare, needs and interests are paramount. Parents have responsibilities, not rights, in this regard. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It does not mean equal (50/50) parenting time - children are not possessions to be ?fairly? divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (?Statement of Arrangements for Children?). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order - ?Residence and Contact? regarding children, ?Financial Order? or ?Ancillary Relief? in the case of Finance. Information and links to these can be found in the Directgov link below. Residence and Contact Orders are likely to be renamed Child Arrangements Orders in future.

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don?t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation ? there?s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don?t just stick with the first lawyer you find ? shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you?re happy with.

If you can?t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:
www.resolution.org.uk/

You can also read good advice and find a family lawyer here:
www.divorceaid.co.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients ? Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. This can help by encouraging discussion about arrangements for children and finance in a structured way in a neutral setting. However, it only works if both parties are willing to reach agreement.

If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. This is important because while a Mediator should have knowledge of family law, and will often explain family law, they are not there to give tailored legal advice to either party - so it?s important to have that first.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:
www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights and issues around contact are further explained here:
www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown
www.maypole.org.uk/

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read ? there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements ? savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you have no access to financial information, or you are aware that assets are being hidden from you, then obviously you will not be able to reach agreement on finances. If there are children, as you cannot divorce without adequate arrangements being agreed on finance and children, you will have to apply for a financial order anyway. If there are no children, and you are unable to agree on finances, you will also have to apply for a financial order (follow the Direct.gov links below). This seeks financial information from both parties going back 12 months. So it is in your interests to act quickly once you have made the decision to divorce.

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:
www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:
www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/payments-entitlement/entitlement/question-how-much.htm#7

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Parenting issues:
www.theparentconnection.org.uk

Other Support for Women ? Children, Housing, Domestic Violence
www.womensaid.org.uk/ and refuge.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 2000 247
www.ncdv.org.uk/ - Helpline 0844 8044 999
www.gingerbread.org.uk/ - Helpline 0808 802 0925
www.maypole.org.uk/
Housing www.england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/relationship_breakdown
(Note that there is usually an appropriate link on these websites for England, Wales and Scotland where the law, advice and contact information may differ.

Arrangements for Children

If you cannot reach agreement between you on residence and contact arrangements - either during a divorce or during discussions about revising contact arrangements, an application for a Residence and Contact Order may be made to the Family Court by either parent. In future this is likely to be renamed ?Child Arrangements Order?.

It is important to note that each case is judged on its own circumstances. The Judge may direct Cafcass to investigate the issues and decide which are relevant for the court to decide. The Cafcass officer will investigate within the framework of the Children Act 1989, taking these factors into account:

(a) the ascertainable wishes and feelings of the child concerned (considered in the light of age and understanding);
(b) physical, emotional and educational needs of the child;
(c) the likely effect on the child of any change in his circumstances;
(d) the age, sex, background of the child and any characteristics of his which the court considers relevant;
(e) any harm which the child has suffered or is at risk of suffering;
(f) how capable each of the parents are, and any other person in relation to whom the court considers the question to be relevant, of meeting the child?s needs;
(g) the range of powers available to the court under this Act in the proceedings in question.

This kind of consideration Cafcass will give to issues around contact can be seen from their own publication ?Time for Children?
www.cafcass.gov.uk/PDF/TimeforChildren.pdf

Amongst other helpful advice in ?Time for Children?, pages 12 and 13 set out the following in relation to children and contact issues:
Children under three may find staying contact more difficult than older children, so particular care and sensitivity is needed when making arrangements at this age

Your parenting plan must be for the benefit of your children and not about parental time-shares. If you do not focus on your children?s needs, they may feel like parcels being moved between addresses.

Your children?s wishes need taking into account. Older children have friends they want to keep and interests that are important to them. They will want parenting plans that allow for their social activities.

Children mature at different rates so do not expect your children to manage similar arrangements to others of the same age; some children are confident and independent, others are shy and clinging.

Young children may need much reassurance to be away from the place they usually see as home without getting distressed.

Younger children usually manage frequent, short periods of contact
best; older children may prefer longer, less frequent periods.

Be flexible and update your parent plan over time. As children grow older their needs and circumstances will change, so will yours.

If there is any violence, alcohol and drug misuse, or psychiatric illness in the family, the parenting plan will need to take account of this to ensure the safety of your children. In order to benefit from contact, children must be safe and need to feel safe. Occasionally the risk of harm to the child will be greater than the possible benefits of contact and it may be best for it not to happen at all or to take place where risks to the child and possibly a parent can be kept to the minimum.

Here are some examples of contact arrangements which cater for the age and needs of of the child:

Baby: a couple of hours each Saturday morning,

Young toddler: a day each weekend: with very young children who have a short memory span frequent shorter contact is better than longer periods further apart

Young children: alternate weekends with one night overnight and maybe an evening each week

Older children: alternate weekends with overnight contact, maybe from Friday night to Sunday night; there could be additionally one night overnight contact a week; some parents agree Thursday nights, which would then provide a continuous long weekend every other weekend.

11 and up: often have sport or other weekend activities and contact must be planned around those. The court will not force a teenager over 14 to have contact with the other parent and at least from the age of about 12 the court takes the child?s wishes strongly into account.

Holiday contact during school holidays can be shared, but would depend again on practical issues such as the parents? working pattern and leave entitlement.

Arrangements for general and family holidays such as Christmas, other religious holidays (if they are important) and the birthdays of the child, the parents and siblings need to be agreed ? it is better if you can do this well in advance.

Special family occasions such as weddings will require some flexibility.

Contact orders or arrangements should always take into account the situation immediately beforehand. If both parents were actively involved in caring that is a different situation to one where one parent has done all the caring and the other is unknown to the child (to give an extreme example). In the first example, overnight care might be possible from the beginning. A parent who has had little to do with day-to-day care, or the reintroduction of an unknown parent will take much more gradual and careful handling. It always depends entirely on the circumstances.

hope you're okay, pinkjenny.

Absolutely Matilda.

I mean, it should be tough shit once you've made those vows, stay unless you're beaten. Children don't suffer at all from living with two deeply unhappy parents. Hard luck if you waste your life being miserable, it doesn't matter that this is the only one you (and your kids) are getting

Really hope you're somewhere safe with DC, Pinkjenny. This thread is chilling.

Hope you are ok love.

De-lurking as am also worried. Hope you are alright OP.

I read this thread last night and the escalation is horrifying. OP, I really hope you are ok, I could feel the tension building in me as I read your posts so it must have been truly awful actually living through it all.

OP - oh hell, this happened to my cousin. She told her DH it was over years before he let on to anyone they knew - why? He wouldn't move out. The rows got worse and worse, and, yep, it got 'physical.'

It's ok now. They divorced, and this is how she did it:

1. Money - Her realising DH wanted a guaranteed payoff before he left. As it happens, he asked for a flat in South Ken, hilariously, which he didn't get - but did walk off with a large chunk of her and her DC's home. When she agreed to a payoff, he did start to look elsewhere.

1. The neighbours - They complained vigorously about the screaming rows and tackled him in the street about it, saying loudly 'You'll kill each other. You have to leave." The realisation that strangers were telling him to go, and that these people could be witnesses, eased his passage out.

1. Her neuropsychiatrist- she had had a car accident and banged her head, fine now. DH had been begging her to 'see someone', ie trying to persuade her she was nuts and loved him true underneath, so she agreed with alacrity as long as he came too. The shrink told DH there was no future in the relationship, which he accepted. Professionals can do this.

1. The divorce judge - DH still acts the victim about this, naturally, but the judge granted her an anonymity order so he can't go near her any more.

Good luck - you should be fine. Get witnesses, and use professionals, they all really help. Tell everyone what's happening.

I didn't say beaten I said abusive.Marriage vows aren't " till death do us part unless one of us is bored and miserable" Marriage should be a lifelong commitment where you work through problems.

Of course children suffer with two very unhappy parents that's why counselling is avaliable

Yeah because you can work through being emotional abused, as for counselling, hhmm do you not think he can also manipulate a therapist?

Matilda, why are you so bloody invested in guilt-tripping the OP for leaving a relationship she's unhappy in? Bored and miserable for years is a perfectly good reason to leave a marriage. Nobody is obliged to stay in a relationship they don't want. That's a good thing. Like it or not, that's what marriage is now - the vows express the ideal and they're lovely, but they are not a binding contract. You still get to opt out. Ideally you give it your best shot, of course you do, but you don't have to flog yourself into the ground making it work when you no longer love your spouse. And counselling is great but it's not a magic wand to solve all relationship problems. Just another possible tool.

She wants to leave, she's a big girl and she knows her own mind.

oh fgs matilda.

And his response to her saying I have had enough is to cry and scream and keep her awake at night.., and threaten to kill himself...

yep that will really persuade her He is a rational adult who respects her And just wants to work it all out... Not.

Matilda do you threaten to kill yourself if you have any disagreement with your husband? It isn't normal behaviour in any circumstance .