Just had a Big Talk with dh about his drinking and other issues.

[bushymcbush]

I told him that if he chooses to continue drinking we will have to split up because I choose to no longer live my life in misery.

We've been here before and he usually makes a token effort to cut down (never stop altogether ) for a short time - a couple of weeks maybe - then reverts to drinking at least a bottle of wine by himself every night. Sometimes more.

Before some of you tell me that it's not that much and what's the problem, I should add that he does this even though we have very little money coming in right now and 2 dc to support. He really struggles to not drink. I don't want to spend time with him when he is drinking and I don't want to have sex with him when he is drinking, so it's a massive barrier to us enjoying our relationship. I no longer go back downstairs after putting the dc to bed but prefer to stay upstairs in 'my' space while he remains downstairs with his wine in front of the telly in 'his' space. That's not a marriage I can bear to be in any longer.

Other issue is his being out of work and doing almost nothing to get work. He has had some freelance stuff this month but he didn't seek it out, it came to him. We desperately need him to be earning money or we may not be able to put food on the table next month (yet he still spends minimum £50 week on booze rather than save for next month).

I suggested to him that the two things (drinking and lack of motivation / direction) might be linked but he doesn't think they are. To be fair, he has been drinking like this for 20 years (I know, I was stupid for marrying him and irresponsible for having children with him - please don't say it, it's never that simple and I can't change that now) but he had plenty of work until 2 years ago. But now the work he does has dwindled to nothing (because of the industry he is in) he just sits and waits for something to happen and complains that he doesn't know what he wants to do with his life. In 6 months he has applied for 3 jobs. Not bloody good enough.

So he said tonight he will 'do something about' the drinking and I suggested he needs some kind of help with that or we'll be back at square one very soon and I won't go back to square one again.

He said he wont drink tomorrow night and we'll talk again.

I'm posting this as a record for myself of what's happening because I'm determined that this time, things will get properly and permanently sorted or its the end of the road. Also, I'm posting for hand holding and support, and to ask you to kick me up the arse if I let things slide. I don't want to live like this any more and I don't want my dd's growing up with it either.

If you've read this far, thank you.

bushy, I don't think you should feel bad that small gestures are not provoking large changes in your feelings. Remember how long he was drinking for, how many times he has let you down. That can't be undone because one time he didn't break your agreement, albeit came close. And the money is still spent - plus he can drink that bottle of wine today on top of everything else he might drink whilst you're out. Because that's the deal. No wonder you feel numb.

One time is better than no times, though.

I don't know if I've got any fight left in me

But who or what are you fighting bushy?

If it's the alcohol, you will lose. You cannot win that fight. It's not possible.

It's not your fight. It's his. He has to do it himself.

Without asking for anything from you.

Either he wants to stop or he doesn't.

There is nothing you can do about his drinking.

Do you see that?

Ask him a simple yes/no question. Regardless of whether he will actually be able to do it, ask him if he wants to stop drinking.

If he says that he would like to just drink at weekends, then there's your anwer - no.

If he says he would like just have a couple of glasses occasionally, then there's your answer - no.

If he says he needs to wind down and relax or he deserves some treats, then there's your answer - no.

If he says he will stop for a month to prove he can control it, then there's your answer - no.

This is a man who is not ready to give up his relationship with alcohol and there is nothing you can do about that.

Also, I'm really not looking forward to today. DH will drink, talk too loudly and say embarrassing things, and pretty much ignore me and the DC. And I will be expected to do all the childcare and drive everyone home at the end, which will involve me nagging DH for ages that it's time to leave and he'll keep putting me off, etc. And when we get home I don't know what state he'll be in to help put DC to bed - he probably will try to help but with me policing his every move / word as he can be volatile (not violent) when drunk.

:(
I bowed out of this thread after my slightly unkind incredulous comment earlier, as although I wasn't wrong, it wasn't very nice. But I just read your last few posts. Of course you aren't relaxed and happy and pleased with him. He's still a drinking alcoholic and you still know what shit there is to come. I wonder when you will feel able to draw the line? I know it's not an overnight process but you must see that for your own emotional health and if the relationship is to have any chance the line must be drawn? And it must be no alcohol. Full stop.

That doesn't really sound like socialising, bushy. Do you have to go? Do you have to wait for him at the end?

Bushy don't go.

There are things that you can do. You are still enabling him. Let him go on his own and make an arse of himself and face the consequences.

Stop mopping up after him.

Go and do something else with the dcs. It's a beautiful day. Life's too short. You're not the one with the drink problem, he is. He has to waste his days in a fug of alcohol and waste the next day in a miserable hangover. You don't.

What are you waiting for, go live your life today. Have fun

I would love to take up your suggestion BUT it's actually friends of mine that we're going to and my eldest DC is very close with their eldest DC so I don't want to bow out!

If it was an outing I was less personally invested in, I would listen to you all.

Ah, well, in that case bushy you are actually choosing this:

I will be expected to do all the childcare and drive everyone home at the end, which will involve me nagging DH for ages that it's time to leave and he'll keep putting me off, etc

That is your choice, not his.

Have fun

I would love to just go without him. As I recently discovered, at things like this I have a much better time without him than with.

But I can't back out (my friends, dc excited) or uninvite DH, can I? Not at this late stage.

Ok, I'm a coward

Maybe it will be ok today. I'll try to relax and take no notice of him. Its not my job to be embarrassed for him. And, when it's time to leave, I'm leaving, whether he gets in the car or not.

Yes of course you can go without him. Sounds like you could have a nice day but you are choosing to take him and have a shit day. Enabling, covering up, hiding the truth.

I would love to just go without him

So do it! Go without him. He will still drink. He can stay home and drink himself stupid in peace.

And you can have a lovely time with your friends.

You need to start separating his drinking with your life and the life of your children. Why does it control everyone and everything? It doesn't have to. And actually, when he sees that you are carrying on without him, he might start to realise that you really do want things to change and if he isn't going to do anything about it, you are.

Let him deal with his drinking and you go and enjoy yourself with yours dcs. Small changes like this are what starts to make a difference. Small steps might be manageable for you. And actions speak louder that words. You are sending him a message. Loud and clear - "I am not going to enable your drinking anymore. Get used to it"

What fairenuff said 1000x

Hope things went okay, bushy.

It wasn't as bad as I have come to expect - but maybe that's because I decided not to care very much. He actually did help look after the DC though, without too much persuasion. And though he did drink he didn't get horribly drunk.

I'm still feeling very numb towards him though.

Hi bushy, I totally know what you mean about the numbness, and I think that in a way is a kind of coping strategy because you are protecting yourself from possible harm. If your expectations are now then you can't be disappointed can you? I see this as the thin end of the wedge though because there is a kind of detachment that results and this puts a barrier between you.

OP may I ask why the onus is entirely on your DH to go out and be the sole breadwinner? You mentioned that you aren't returning to work after your maternity leave. It's just that you seem to be feeling a lot of resentment about him not trying harder to get work - is there a reason why you can't plan to look for work once you've finished ebf?

Golden - I think bushy says somewhere above there are other reasons she can't go back to work that aren't related to this thread - I guess she may not wish to disclose them. If the DH showed any inclination to act as a SAHD, it would make more sense for bushy to go back to work (assuming her other reason didn't exist) but I get the impression - bushy please correct me if this is wrong - that you are reluctant even to leave the baby with your DH? Let alone take on the role of the primary carer.

Thanks trib I did see that, but since the OP has since expressed frustration about her DH not working, it did seem relevant to me that she is not able or willing to go back to work - that might be putting additional stress on her DH and on the relationship. It was the DH's comment about feeling like a hen-pecked twat that gave me the impression that he is feeling pretty hopeless and under a great deal of pressure - both of which are likely to trigger his wish to drink more as a way of 'relaxing'.

Thing is, it's important not to look for 'reasons' for the drinking. The reason he drinks is because he's an alcoholic. There are always reasons to drink - boredom, stress, happiness, anger. That's why bushy can't fix this by removing stressors, he has to fix it by accepting his addiction. He can drink more, he can drink less. The problem is his relationship with alcohol, not the amount of it he consumes.

It's very likely that I will be returning to work in Jan or Feb (after my full maternity leave) - not least because I need an independent source of income in case it all goes tits up. I cannot return to work right now (despite our dire finances) because my baby was premature, is ebf and nowhere near ready for solids. I don't want to switch to ff or have to express constantly.

My DH shows no desire to be a SAHD. We are both mostly at home right now but I do all the childcare and arrange stuff for the DC to do etc.

No drinking tonight. I feel slightly warmer towards him today. He has been doing stuff towards building his new business and has two days work later this week. He also poured leftover wine from last night down the sink this morning. No prompting from me.

Have no practical advice but having read the whole thread i judt wanted to say I think you are doing a wonderful job and you should be proud of yourself.

I notice many don't necessarily agree with your course of action, andtgey are much more knowing than me about these things, but I am glad that you are doing what you feel is necessary to save your marriage. I totally understand you when you say that you have to know that you've done all you can and I just wanted to reassure you that you are doing just that.

And damn gracefully I might add

Most people with a drinking problem tackle it 'one day at a time'. For some, making that decision to never drink again is just such an impossible task when they are so reliant. However, if all they need to do is get through one day without a drink, it seems more manageable.

After a few sober days, the person starts to feel physically better, starts to enjoy those hangover-free days and starts to think that they could maybe control their drinking to one or two days a week, or just special occasions.

Sometimes this works and the person is able to be a 'controlled' drinker. Someone who got out of the lift at a very high floor. They are probably not addicted but were heavily reliant on alcohol.

More often, the amount and/or frequency of drinking starts to creep up and after a few weeks or a few months even, the problem drinker is back where they started. This cycle can repeat ad infinitum.

At some point, the drinker may accept that they cannot drink 'normally' and attempt to stop altogether. They will still do it one day at a time but will have made that decision. They will mostly focus on not picking up that first glass. If they can just avoid that first drink they will be fine. And they just need to get through the day, one day at a time.

This person will need to learn strategies to recognise triggers and avoid that first glass. AA and other organisations can help with this. Al anon can help families learn how to live with a person like this and enjoy a sober life with them.

You can see now how it has to be the decision of the drinker. It's too hard for them to stop just because someone else wants them to. They have to want it themselves.

Getting to the point where they do actually want to stop is different for everyone. Some, many, never get there. Others, still many, need to reach their 'rock bottom' before they want to change. Rock bottom varies for each individual but it could mean losing their job or their home or their family or all three.

The lucky ones, imo, are the ones who realise early that their drinking is affecting everything in their life adversely and that they would be so much happier without it.

Your dh probably needs some professional help to get there. He should see his gp and tell them it's a problem. Some gps will minimise drinking because it's so common and unless the person is actually ill through drinking or likely to severely damage themselves through drinking, some gps don't see it as too much of a problem. But it is a problem for your dh because he is still at a high level in the lift and he could get out now. The longer he stays there, the lower he sinks.

I hope some of this makes sense to you and is helpful.

PS If he wasn't a problem drinker, why would he be pouring alcohol down the sink? He knows he has to get rid of it so that he isn't tempted. It's a good thing for him to do but it does speak volumes.

'If he wasn't a problem drinker, why would he be pouring alcohol down the sink?'

He clearly is a problem drinker, I don't think I have tried to deny that. And in fact, neither has he, as he has several times called himself an alcoholic, but didn't have the will to change things whilst I was compliantly going along with it. Mind you, his upbringing and some of the circles he moves in now leave him confused at to what 'normal' drinking is. But deep down, he knows that his daily drinking habit isn't normal or healthy, or financially acceptable, or conducive to happy family life. He really does know all that, even though he sometimes has to battle with his own brain to see it.

Fairenuf, the lift analogy is useful, thank you. I agree with you that he probably needs professional help. If I suggest that to him now, he would be very negative about it because to his mind, he is winning the battle without help. He has managed for 11 days now under our new 'rules'. But if / when things start to slip, or he is still having a daily battle not to drink even after a few weeks, I will be suggesting it then. You are also right about GPs not being always helpful - he did in fact speak to his GP about his drinking 4 years ago, but she was dismissive and unhelpful. I will make sure he sees a different one next time.

MostlyFine - thank you for your encouraging words. You're right that not many people here agree with what I'm doing - and I don't blame them to be honest! But everyone who has posted has been nothing less than concerned and supportive, no matter how far they agree / disagree with my actions. And I appreciate it more than I can possibly say. MN is a truly wonderful place sometimes.