Men's opinions needed

[KlickKlackknobsac]

What do men want from a relationship?
What does 'being respected' mean to a man?
Why is work so bloody important to men, seemingly more so than kids/ wife especially when they have something to prove?
How can women get more attention from single-minded work driven men?
(Answers from knowledgeable women also welcome of course)
Background- married almost 20 years, 3 kids, still in love.

I just don't think you can even say what mal says. All people want different things.

Not all people want the things mal says out of a relationship. This thread surely has proved that and that is why it is pointless.

I have heard from previous partners they deal with problems differently from me.

What did they all have in common!? They were all men. Different backgrounds, different ages, different nationalities etc.

It was always that I wanted to discuss the issues and find solutions together and I wanted to know beforehand or right when they dealt with the issue in the beginning,

but THEY tried to deal with it in silence first, then see what THEY could do about it without involving me, and then present it if possible after all was solved and taken care of. Does this make sense?

Seriously many of the answers so far have been oddly sexist against men. I don't recognize these attitudes among the men in my family, for example they think and take responsibility for their actions as the adults they are.
And no one plays Xbox, and they have stayed with their women through menopause.

offred
Not all people want the things mal says out of a relationship. This thread surely has proved that and that is why it is pointless.

For you it might be pointless, but for me it's not.

OP has asked about men's opinions, and other women might be interested as well in those opinions.

So, to me that's what they are. Single opinions. I choose what to do with what I am reading here.

How can an opinion from a poster not be valid, if it is HIS OPINION????
Nothing more and nothing less.

But why is it not pointless to you? Given that all people are individuals with individual experience and individual feelings and needs why would you expect to be able to get an answer about what men think/feel?

You may see the ridiculousness if you replace "men" with white people...

Because the op is not asking what individual men think, she is asking for men's advice on what men as a group collectively think and feel.

Well, maybe I misunderstood the OP and the question?! Sorry about that

Whoosh, I seem to have caused some offence here. Most of it NOT because of anything I actually wrote, but the assumption that I really meant something else, maybe something preconceived by the reader. Violent might have been a bad word to choose, even applied to something internal. (Although to deny violence is to bury your head in the sand. We should ALL be grateful that in Britain at the moment most people dont need to fear it, men as much as women.)

I said nothing at all about WOMENs instincts, and how they too need to be compromised to maintain faithful monogamy. I don't have any firsthand experience of womens instincts. Anyone out there honest enought to put them down for the rest of us, straight from the bottom, no points to be won or image to maintain? Theres a famous statistic or urban myth that a 70s US experiment found that 25% of people DNA tested were NOT the biological children of the person who thought he was their father. Beggars belief, anyone know if it's really true?

And can I hear any men saying they have never noticed an attractive woman who is not their partner? Even any women saying they have never noticed an attractive man, real or famous?

The mis reading of what i wrote illustrates the biggest difference I see between men and women when talking in relationships.

Most men try to say what they think they think, and hear what they think has been said. They look for things to be on the table. If i say i love you and want to be with you forever, that stands alone. Its true, i mean it, i feel and want it. It doesnt have to imply more, that I can't live without you, think about you every minute even in the middle of something important at work, dont notice other women, am blind to the things in you that are not perfect for me, nor vice versa. Women, how many of you want and expect all that?

A lot of women seem to assume that there is hidden meaning, respond to that, and expect what they felt to be heard through what they said. This is such a cliche I'm almost embarrassed to write it, but doesn't mean it isn't true. It also doesn't mean that the women aren't right, maybe they DO understand better what the man is feeling, which is what I wrote, and they don't like it? But if that's true, what are men supposed to do about it?

There wasn't any misreading. Fuck off with your "men say what they mean, women always have hidden meanings" bullshit.

TTKITG, Still wondering what happens to women who aren't fertile anymore, should we just give up? Actually, that is crap as men still fancy me!

I get the impression that men who post on here are the sort that have to settle for what they can get tbh, don't know why but just a hunch!

Offered, thanks for telling me how you feel ! I know nothing at all bout you except that you seem angry, this is the internet for gods sake, and i have no right to expect you to read what I'm actually writing, or to care what I actually think. I guess we are not going on a long walking holiday together any time soon. Have you tried telling your story to someone?

Tressy, you sound like you are fine. I still fancy my wife. She is 46, me 44. Her body has started to break, mine hasn't yet but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Though now that she has become so negative and hostile it is starting to fade. I was pleased she married me, and loved her a lot. I wanted to stay with her for the rest of our lives, enjoy our daughter growing up and being an adult, being old and content, all the romantic stuff. I am fully in control of my male instincts, more new man than caveman. I like and respect women, I have half a dozen good, old, friends who are women. I have seen no sign in them of the things Offered accuses me of saying women "always" do, her word, but her posts ( you, Offered, if you are reading this far and thinking of accusing me of talking about you behind your back ) IS a perfect example of what SOME women seem TO ME to be like. And my friends have said that sometimes they DO act that way with their partners, despite knowing they are doing it. They are all married to new men too, and im the first to face separation. I don't think I'm unusual, not from the men I know well, of whom there are maybe about ten. If you want flowers and teenage crushes, you might even get those if you look under the right rocks. But I'm not sure in the long run they'll make you happier than someone who has taken a good look at who you are and decided he wants to spend his life with you, assuming you have done the same to him. I thought I had this, but I guess I got that wrong. I will try again.

Whoops we have overlapped posts. I have no illusions about my value in the date pool, but I'm happy with what I've got. I'm posting because I have a bit of time to kill, and it's one way to start thinking again about what goes on in the heads of women, not just DW, who are thinking about relationships. More interesting than most TV, for now at any rate. And the idea of swapping ideas with total strangers who also have nothing better to do for the time being is interesting too.

Wow, you have no idea what respect is. It definitely isn't empty gestures and behaving like a "new man" because your "male urges" are under control. The whole point is that these are not inherent features of a man, they are chosen behaviours of dickheads (male and female). By going on about them being inherent to maleness you are being sexist.

My last comment was not meant to be specifically what you said but the stereotype or "cliche" as you called it that you were promoting.

Your first comment I did not read anything into.

This latest comment is so actually ridiculous. If you want to learn how to respect other people generally, including yourself, stop lumping them in together and dividing them by gender. No wonder your wife said you didn't respect her!

Women and men are people, all individuals with individual life experience, wants, needs, thoughts and ways of behaving. You cannot get any answers about any particular woman by looking at other women collectively.

Studying law I am extremely literal and pedantic about the words people use, i'm also very honest and I don't say things I don't mean. I have had a boyfriend who treated me how I think you come across; doing cooking for me because he was a "new man", never listening to a word I say because "wimmin never say what they mean", telling me if I ever put on weight he'd dump me...

Men who think like you are a hangover from the fifties. You are an insult to the many men who genuinely do respect women by treating them as individuals. Imitating certain behaviour whilst still thinking about what "men" and "women" think is not respect or equality.

Honestly a "hangover" from the 50's sometimes sounds much better, because those men at least didn't only see the privileged side of being a man, but also did know about male responsibilities and duties, me thinks

No, in all seriousness...all this talk about being a "new man" and having "your instincts" in check and all that....and I am not addressing you trying specifically here, but this is all rubbish.

This is some bandwagon people have jumped on in the same way some people and groups only pick out certain parts and verses of books of prayer....

There are plenty of animals, who are monogamous....and even the rabbit (who gets a bad rep) is not always ready to mate, nor are dogs etc.
Look at ducks and see how monogamous they are, plenty of other examples.

Also human beings are highly "complex social animals" and there is more about us than raw instincts.

If I would ever hear a man talk and think like that, I could still like him as a mate, or colleague, or friend....but not contemplate a relationship with him.

Why??? As I have plenty of close male friends, and my father, my brother, my ex-brother-in-laws, plenty of male colleagues etc. who do not express these views.

When I hear 'her body started to break' or women are not sexually attractive during or after menopause and all those comments, I wonder if the man even is able to simple look at a woman and fall in love for all her beauty and what she has to offer, cause men usually find all sorts of women sexually attractive. And they find all sorts of women lovely and beautiful, that is my experience.

I am definitely not as fit and slim and toned as I was in my late teens and early to mid twenties, that is a fact. I am nearly 40 and I have NOW since the last 3-4 years more men wanting to be with me and wanting a serious long-term relationship and have received marriage proposals, which I kindly declined as I am not ready to marry again, yet.

Why am I sharing this, because following some of the logic here, it wouldn't make sense why I am now with age much more irresistible than before.

I don't know why. But I think it has to do with having matured and mellowed and simply being a nice and lovely person who also makes a great companion to a man. And yes I am beautiful, but again I don't care about ageing or body breaking or whatever
Men usually don't even see that, or am I wrong here?!

But a lot of it isn't even evolutionary biology but sexist apologism masquerading as evolutionary biological arguments. The logic is often false when examined closely.

crescentmoon I agree with you, and the sad part is, that most people do not even know or don't want to acknowledge that worldwide this biological instinct thesis , is NOT a theory accepted by scientists, researchers and well-renowned professors, faculties, and universities.
Where I was a post-graduate student, one would have been shown the door if having repeated this tripe from the media.

The dangerous part is, when men start to believe it themselves. It's damaging to human relationships.

offred oh I have posted before seeing your post.

Yes, this is what I mean. It is constructed, and not even by evolutionary biologists or social scientists themselves.

@keepingittogether, i think women would often see attractive younger men than their husbands, but they are much more constrained by the fact that the younger more handsome men are 'boys' really and sorry but women do care more about how it would look to have a sexual encounter with a much younger more attractive man. (kind of sad). It doesn't look 'whoah! good for you girl' people would judge you for jeopardising something real with a balding fat bloke (lol, of course). I think men actually feel pride when they swap their wives for a younger version. I think for a woman to make adecision with her pants is embarrassing. men less embarrassed by it. Well, maybe that is just my view.

I found your first post before you explained yourself a little startling too, and not because of the violent urges. You seemed to see yourself as having two paths, stay or go, like you were the prize and your wife the recipient... it didn't seem very EQUAL. I wasn't picking up on any connection ebtween the two of you. You seem to mock her slightly for rejecting you as though it is pure foolishness on her part!! to be so foolish as to reject you!!

my x is the same!

What do men want from a relationship?

Love, respect, companionship, to be cared for, validation, babies, sex. In no particular order.

What does 'being respected' mean to a man?

Acceptance of who he is and that he's different from you, and not trying to train / change / improve him constantly. Understanding that he doesn't want to talk about X-Factor / Big Brother / etc all the time. Acknowledgment and praise for what he brings to the family - I tell my wife every day how she's beautiful (she is) and I'm proud of what she's achieved (I am) that I appreciate how hard she works not just in her job but to make a home, feed us, sort out the kids, etc. I say this stuff every day because I mean it; by comparison I almost never hear anything back in the same vein from her - it would be nice to be acknowledged even though I know she loves me. Not 'reading between the lines' and assuming he's trying to tell you something other than what he's saying. Understanding that when you ask a man about a problem he will try to fix it, it's what we do. If you just want to moan about something, ask your female friends.

Why is work so bloody important to men, seemingly more so than kids/ wife especially when they have something to prove?

Because it's who we are - hunter-gatherer / provider etc. Work defines us in the same way that motherhood often defines a woman. In society it is assumed that a husband works, it's viewed as optional for a wife (I have no problem with either statement, just saying how it seems); in the same way it is generally assumed that a women will have or want children. This puts a lot of pressure on men.

How can women get more attention from single-minded work driven men?
(Answers from knowledgeable women also welcome of course)

Either try to get involved in his world (if he has hobbies or interests that you can participate in) or suggest new ways - walks in the country, trips to new places - stuff that might interest you both. Bear in mind he may not want you going to the football or the pub with him (I do neither, just using that as an example) and respect that.

Background- married almost 20 years, 3 kids, still in love.

It's not all bad then :-)

WTF does "her body has started to break" mean..?
Do you mean she has medical issues or simply that she is, surprise, surprise at the age of 46 , starting to age? You're not telling me that , at the age of 44, you still have the body of a 25 year old?
You really have no idea of what a complete jackass you are coming over as, do you? What are these "male instincts" you have to keep so closely in check?
You sound very bitter that you've stayed faithful to you wife when she's now being hostile and cold towards you, do you honestly think you'd feel any better about things if you'd fucked around behind her back?*

In my experience, men who believe that women are happy to be with a man, regardless of how he looks or what he has to offer emotionally and as a human being, are the ones who have low self-confidence themselves.

I believe that men who are trying to "find out" where the woman's hang-ups, and worries, and fears might be, are the ones who are trying to gain control and the lead by then representing themselves "as the one", the answer to her loneliness or her low confidence.

But men, who are very secure with themselves, who are stable and who also bring a lot to the table and have a lot to loose, are usually more self-reflected.

And I believe, so is at least my experience, that they do appreciate women in all shades, sizes, and ages as long she comes across as happy, emotionally stable, self-confident, fun, interesting, independent, and very sure of herself without being too cocky or arrogant about it.

I do believe that this is a HUGE part of what makes women sexy and erotic to men, and that men love to have these kind of women as their partners and as a best friend and mate and companion.

Relationship is about giving and receiving, about listening and taking to heart what the other one is expressing.

I personally, would like to work more on myself when it comes to different ways of communicating, seriously.

And if I could turn back the clock, and know what I know today many moons later about men, then I would have done a few things differently in my past marriage. Not that I want that marriage back, I don't. And yet it is part of my sadness not having known more about interaction and communication between husband and wife, which has its own unique dynamic, I think.

I'm glad someone picked on that, Malificence you just can't buy class like that...