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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband and teens?

385 replies

blackraven12 · 08/08/2012 14:13

Hi this is my first post on here although I do browse through often.

Just wanted some advice/opinions please. Sorry may be a bit long.

Bit of backstory first, about two years ago I found out that husband had searched for 'teen bodies' on a torrent site along with some other stuff (not porn related). He hadn't actually downloaded anything it had just appeared in the search box. Now I know a lot of porn with teen in the title are actually 18+ but can look 16 etc so presumed it was that. I was still a little shocked and when I asked him about it he denied it and said it must be a virus. He later admitted it was him.

Last Christmas we were shopping and as we were getting served I noticed him staring at the girl working on the next checkout about 17/18. After we left the shop I turned to speak to him and he was looking through the shop window at the girl as we walked to the car. I've noticed him doing this in a couple of shops girls being 17/18 or a bit older. Now I know its normal for a man to admire a pretty girl but with it just made me feel uneasy. He's 44 by the way.

Now the main reason why I posted. The other day he got some boxes of stuff from his mates house (lived there about 4 yrs ago) that he's going to sell on ebay. I was sorting through them when I found a black book (there were other paperbacks in there) I flicked through it to see what it was and he'd used it as a diary for 2004, so 8 years ago. It was mainly empty pages with a few entries and I know I shouldn't have (I wish I hadn't!) but I had a look.

Part of one entry was"Found out that sexy young(I'll use the name Sarah) is in fact only nearly 14! Why couldn't she have been 17 I could've coped with that." He was 36 at the time.

Another one couple months later " went up to friends, Sarah was looking as dangerous as ever. She really does not look 14. Its criminal. I'm no pervert but she's one cute ,sexy *"

Am I overeacting feeling shocked that even though he new she was 14 he still thought she was sexy??

I haven't said anything to husband. Should I? Should I forget about it?

Thank you to anyone who bothered to read it all!

OP posts:
blackraven12 · 12/08/2012 13:34

OH for fucks sake (I don't usually swear) but really. Yes Im saying he's not sexually attracted to underage girls. He's not going round chatting any bloody women up so what you on about getting into trouble??? I've listed where people have changed words to make stuff seem worse can you not see that??

Doesn't really matter what I explain some of you are determined to make him into a dangerous man and almost seem disappointed that I don't agree with you.

Please tell me how someone came to the conclusion from my posts that he'd slept with a 13 yr old girl. Tell me where I said he's looked for underage porn, tell me where I said he'd been writing about sexual fantasies about this girl. Where did "a diary about hot young girls come from".

OP posts:
LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 12/08/2012 13:35

Blackraven, your husband is attracted to very young girls. YOU deserve better.

You wouldn't be so angry if you knew it wasn't true.

LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 12/08/2012 13:37

And yes, I am disappointed you don't agree because he is a dangerous man. Men who are this attracted to under age girls are dangerous.

Perhaps he'll never take action on his fantasies. Take comfort in that since it's easier to blame us as witch hunters.

blackraven12 · 12/08/2012 13:44

Im angry because its so bloody frustrating trying to get a point across when people are saying no you're wrong etc. Please tell me why he's dangerous Lurking?? What fantasies? I never mentioned fantasies someone else did. again those "accusing him" tell me where did I say he'd been writing about sexual fantasies and chatting up/ leering at loads of other women/girls.

OP posts:
MagicHouse · 12/08/2012 13:45

It's hard when you are in the marriage to see things clearly, especially if you want things to work....
Your husband is clearly into young teenagers. From everything you say that's obvious. (I mean writing down that a 13 year old is dangerous and sexy? How much more obvious do you need?) He may never act on that, though you can never be sure. Of course he was going to be charming, complimentary to you, tell you to trust him and deny there was a problem. What's the alternative? He can't very well turn round and tell you he likes young girls can he?

I think it's possible for a marriage to continue by ignoring this. And you may well stay together for years. And this may in all likelihood just stay as a nasty little fantasy for him.

I would never let yourself forget what you found out though. I would keep it somewhere in the back of your mind. And tell yourself you will not put up with discovering he has done ANYTHING else along these lines again. Or if you do at least admit to yourself this is a problem and act on it next time - either by insisting on counselling or leaving him.

LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 12/08/2012 13:54

If he's writing how sexy and dangerous a 13 year old is in his diary, he's having sexual fantasies. That's just..Well obvious.

He's dangerous because he's a hebephile. As I said, he may never actually act on these desires, but they'll always be there. That makes him dangerous.

You asked if YWBU. The answer was a resounding YADDDDNBU. Now you're angry we didn't tell you this was normal. It's not. being attracted to fit young women is normal. Being attracted to 13 year olds and justifying as 'she looked older' is not. Staring at teenage check out girls in front of his wife is not normal.

As a previous poster said, insist on counselling if you want this to work. But please don't pretend he's not attracted to teenagers because he is.

JustFabulous · 12/08/2012 13:54

"The "teen porn" search as someone pointed out earlier it's not nice but is apparently a popular search."

Do you mean by this that you think lots of men do it so it is okay?

Lots of men do a lot of things that are unthinkable, it doesn't make it okay or acceptable.

Bottom line, you posted, you have got some responses that you don't like and that are a bit OTT. Your husband, your marriage, your life. You must do anything that needs to be done to protect your children.

This was many years ago, if he hadn't looked at porn or admired the check out girls you maybe woudn't have been so upset..

blackraven12 · 12/08/2012 13:57

"From everything you say that's obvious. (I mean writing down that a 13 year old is dangerous and sexy? How much more obvious do you need?)"
I thought I'd explained that. Yes I did read it like that when I first saw it. But I also understand how he explained it. I.e she looks older someone may get into trouble without knowing it.
"And this may in all likelihood just stay as a nasty little fantasy for him."
It maybe a nasty little fantasy or maybe not no one will ever know that will they.
"I would never let yourself forget what you found out though. I would keep it somewhere in the back of your mind. And tell yourself you will not put up with discovering he has done ANYTHING else along these lines again. Or if you do at least admit to yourself this is a problem and act on it next time - either by insisting on counselling or leaving him."
Don't you worry about that IF anything did come up like that it would be over for good.

A few years ago I dated a guy and after about 12 months I found out he was into amateur porn(nothing wrong or illegal I guess) and was going on a chat thing using a profile of a 24year old (he was47) to watch women strip on webcam. As soon as I found out I ditched him.
Its hard to get stuff across on a message forum but I'm not a quiet, put up with anything. oh but I love him type of person at all. If I think something is going on I will go on and on until I get to the bottom of it ad Im not stupid I will not be fobbed off with crap.

OP posts:
AlfalfaMum · 12/08/2012 13:59

Sorry OP, but the man is a creep. If you didn't think so you would never have started this thread, the title is 'Husband and Teens?' and you chose it.

Also, to hark back to all the posts about 13 year olds looking older (as some twisted form of defence), this man was writing about how 'sexy' and 'dangerous' this girl was after finding out her real age. How can anyone defend that?

LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 12/08/2012 14:00

Ahh...Saying 'it's okay honey, the 13 year old girl looked barely legal' is allowing yourself to be fobbed off by crap.

I'm off to bed now. I hope this works out for the best. :(

handstandCrabForwardRollGold · 12/08/2012 14:03

Fact is your husband wrote inappropriate sexual comments about a 13 year old girl. Twice. On purpose.

Fact is your husband letches over other women whilst you are there.

Fact is your husband searched for teen porn.

You can explain it away if you like. Tie yourself in knots justifying to randoms on the Internet why it's okay for an adult male to write down how sexy he thinks a 13 year old girl is. How it's ok for him to leer at other women because you have low self esteem. That loads of men look at teen porn and it doesn't mean anything. Whatever. I think he is not a man that I would want to associate myself with or want around young women. Just based on what you said.

Houseofplain · 12/08/2012 14:05

You seem to have a history of going for wronguns with sexual problems...so your dh is another in the list.

Yes you do have low self asteem. That's why you are angry. You want him to be a great man, as you don't think you can do any better. Any man is better than no man.

So you put up with an awful lot. No change here. From the woman who knows her husband is a bit of a nonce, but turns a blind eye, because there must be an explanation.

blackraven12 · 12/08/2012 14:06

When I started the thread with the title husband and teens it was after I'd just read the diary and had got worked up/emotional and looking back I did overreact and lumped the teen porn and looking at checkout girl all together.

OP posts:
handstandCrabForwardRollGold · 12/08/2012 14:11

Your husband, who is not a diarist, took the time to write sexually about a 13 year old and he did this apparently because he could see that other men might get confused because she looked older?

It doesn't make any sense does it? If it was concern for her he could have talked to her parents or he could have been a kind man who looked out for her, understanding that teenage girls experiment with their looks and sexuality but this doesn't mean they want older men to come onto them. Or he could make excuses for why older men would want to shag her because that is what he would like to do.

MagicHouse · 12/08/2012 14:12

" went up to friends, Sarah was looking as dangerous as ever. She really does not look 14. Its criminal. I'm no pervert but she's one cute ,sexy *"

Ok I'll leave this now. But read that quote above again. This is not someone saying "other people may fancy this girl and it's awful" This is your dh very clearly saying HE fancies this girl. It's right there in front of you.

I'm sorry you're getting upset. But I'm sure most of us know that being in a situation makes things very different - you have a relationship with this man and that will change your perspective. Just think on it. It is so easy to excuse and ignore unacceptable behaviour because you want something to work.

LurkingAndLearningLovesCats · 12/08/2012 14:35

Feel the need to post this. OP, you said lots of men like teen porn, correct?

I am a non-practicing heterosexual hebephile?and I think most men are?and find living in this society particularly difficult given puritanical, feminist, and parental forces against the normal male sex drive. If sex is generally good for both the body and the brain, then how is a teen having sex with an adult (versus another teen) bad for their mind? I feel like the psychological arguments surrounding the present age of consent laws need to be challenged. My focus is on consensual activity being considered always harmful in the first place. Since the legal notions of consent are based on findings from the soft sciences, shouldn?t we be a little more careful about ruining an adult life in these cases?

?Deep-thinking Hebephile

Dear Deep-thinking Hebephile:

The one thing Bering got pretty clearly correct in his answer to you is that your thinking most men are hebephiles doesn?t make it so. What it does do is allow you to tell yourself that what you want is normal and natural. It also allows you to cloak your impulses in the much-more-flattering cloak of daring nonconformity: Only you are brave enough to speak what all know in their hearts.

Except it?s not true. You are in the minority, and even within that minority, you are among those who work to justify their desires. That makes you extra dangerous, by the way, as does this idea that something needs to be ?always harmful? in order for us to agitate against it.

There are good, solid reasons to prohibit sexual relationships between children and adults that have nothing to do with ?moral panic,? even if you can?t think of what they would be. You hear someone say, ?Ew,? at the idea. I, however, hear concerns about long-term planning capabilities and potential consequences of sexual activity, social maturity and the confidence to set boundaries, and severe power imbalances that call any kind of meaningful consent into question. ?Soft sciences? or no, none of those disparities between childhood and adulthood is in serious doubt.

None of those require that children will come to harm in sexual relationships with adults, but they make it more likely. They also all but guarantee that wherever there is harm in one of these relationships, that harm will fall on the child, not the adult. That is why the penalty in these cases falls on the adult, even if it may ?ruin an adult life.?

?But it doesn?t have to be that way,? I hear your letter pleading. It may even be true in the occasional case, but in those cases, that requires either exceptional maturity on the part of the child or that the adult be grown up?perceptive, wise, honest, patient, non-manipulative?enough for two. It would require that adult to be a better human being than the vast majority of those of us involved in relationships with people who can hold their own.

Are you that person? I don?t know. I doubt it, though, with your self-justification and your exceptionalism and your wish that ?Someone think of the adults!!!? You come across as someone focused entirely on their own concerns and desires to the detriment of anyone else?s. At least you do to my practiced and studied?adult, if you will?eye. And that?s where those laws of consent come into play.

I do agree with you on one point, however. Please, whatever you do, be scrupulously careful about ruining that adult life of yours. I don?t want you taking any kids with you.

freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2011/12/23/dear-deep-thinking-hebephile/

Your husband has already started justifying, he wrote it down. You cannot know what's going on his head, but you can make a reasonable guess.

*Disclaimer - I Don't agree that it's ever okay to enter a sexual relationship with a child, though I hope the responder meant very mature 17 year old with late twenty something.

blackraven12 · 12/08/2012 14:52

No I did NOT say lots of men like teen porn! Someone on the thread said it was in the top ten porn searches or something and I quoted them.

For what its worth I don't find any porn acceptable, well not to me and I don't think I've said it is acceptable in any of my previous posts.

OP posts:
Offred · 12/08/2012 15:04

If he is not sexually attracted to young girls why is he ogling them so hard you notice and why did he search for "teenage bodies", why has he written about a girl he knows to be 13 in a sexual attraction context (dangerous, cute and sexy, wishing she was older?)?

No-one has said "I bet", they've said "i think" and "IME" that i've seen. No-one has said you are burying your head in the sand for refusing to believe he is dangerous but for refusing to accept that he may be.

Offred · 12/08/2012 15:06

No-one said he was seeking child porn either but if he is searching for wanking material using the term "teenage bodies" rather than sourcing a more reputable (vomit) search term or source he will turn up illegal porn.

Offred · 12/08/2012 15:07

He isn't looking for women dressing up as school girls, he has been looking for teenage bodies.

handstandCrabForwardRollGold · 12/08/2012 15:14

blackraven you put these things together because there is a thematic link between them.

it's very impressive how you just tell your husband that something isn't ok and he completely agrees with you and never ever looks at porn again or thinks sexually about teenage girls. Did your husband not realise before its not ok to ogle women at work in the supermarket or write about 'sexy' 13 year olds before you pointed it out?

Offred · 12/08/2012 15:15

And he is just a boyfriend I don't know why you would put up with this, I think fairly substantial and ongoing problem. It is not appropriate or acceptable for an adult to be sexually attracted to a teenage body is it? Are you sure it is only girls? How do your sons feel about him?

Offred · 12/08/2012 15:17

Oh sorry I see he is a husband but he's not your sons' father is what I meant just your partner.

anairofhopeFORGOLD · 12/08/2012 15:23

So OP what do you think it all means?

blackraven12 · 12/08/2012 15:26

Did I say ogled or leered I can't remember I'm sure I used the word looked or stared which mean something totally different but maybe that's me being picky. I've already pointed out examples of where people have assumed/presumed and changed the wording so I'm not going to do it again.

I'm going to the leave the thread now as no matter what I say or think some posters think they "know" my husband is a dangerous pervert and that I'm a pushover.

Oh and HOUSEOFPAIN
"You seem to have a history of going for wronguns with sexual problems.." thanks for that .

"Yes you do have low self asteem. That's why you are angry. You want him to be a great man, as you don't think you can do any better. Any man is better than no man" WTF!

I have a bad body image. I don't want him to be a "great" man(whatever one of those are) an average one will do?
I think I can't do any better??? Again you are assuming lol.

"Any man is better than no man" I take offence at that and you are assuming again!
Waaaaaaaaay off the mark.

The father of my youngest son left me in 1997 saying he didn't want to stay together, it wasn't the same etc didn't love me the same. I asked him if there was anyone else he said no I believed him because he'd never lied before, was a decent guy and these things happen. A week after me and the kids moved out he moved in with a woman from work. (This is where the overly suspicious nature comes from I mean I trusted him to tell me the truth).
I was then on my own for the next SEVEN years, by choice but had ample opportunities for going into a relationship. So no "any man is better than no man" is not true in my case. (although I know a few people that it applies to.)

OP posts:
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