Chutney

[LouP19]

Where do I go? My thread has gone?!!

Bit upset by the soap opera comments, but understand it probably came out wrong. I like a quiet life. I like reading. I like staying in. I like cats. I like gardening and looking at stuff in Dunelm mill. This is NOT me at all.

Can you keep your dads offer in reserve for when settlement through so you get benefit not dh.

Also, assuming you are clear there is no future with chutney, if you delay proceedings too long, you end up with prolonged hassle. I know it may be what he wants but it could be to your benefit to get some clarity and closure.

Also, don't get too attached to a home. It becomes a symbol of your previous life and ends up being a millstone around your neck (from my own parents many years ago) both financially and emotionally. Sell the place at an opportune time for you and not anyone else, but soon. Get a solicitor to negotiate a settlement with the building society. They will have no interest in possessing a home in negative equity. Then find your own place which you can afford by yourself using your father's generous offer.

You really really need a good solicitor and I would prioritise this now, as he/she can advise you in your dealings with the building society etc and will also allow you to detach from your ex (and I think calling him an ex is pretty fair given the circumstances)

Lou you sound so strong today. I know you probably don't feel strong, but you most definitely sound it . What an amazing woman you are.

Good luck with the building society & solicitor appointments. I hope that you gel with the solicitor better this time - really important that you feel s/he is going to fight your corner & give you the best advice.

One hour, one day at a time. You're doing great

Hi LouP,

Thought it was about time I delurked to offer support.

I am sure your solicitor will advise you re your dad supporting your mortgage.... After you screw 'D'H for every penny.

I'm an advocate of 'if it's not working' it doesn't have to get nasty and unfair if each party shows respect for what was. We owe it to ourselves to be happy after all. But what your H has done shows utter contempt and disrespect for you. And therefore it's a different game you are playing (not through choice).

I hope you make the right decision re the baby for your sake only. I can't begin to imagine how difficult any decision will be and I am sure you've played the outcomes in your head. It is apparent from your postings you don't want the baby to become a pawn and I see strength in you I not allow that to happen.

You have fantastic family support (even H's family!) and friends and neighbours (and mn!)...this won't begin to compensate for what you think you've lost....but will help you to build a different life for yourself.

Keep Strong Lou x

God bless your dad

All the best with your appointments today.

Hi Lou,
i've been reading your story all morning, and i really have no useful advice to add as everyone seems to be giving you plenty of insightful support.

but one thing i do know about is if your dad pays into the mortgage on your house you jointly own with your husband, your husband is entitled to half of that amount.
if you can get the house in your name first, then your dad can pay in, safe in the knowledge the money he is gifting will go solely to you.
but please make sure he doesn't pay any money into it until your husband's name is off the deeds, becuase he could then take half of it if you divorce/sell the house.
wishing you all the best, truly xx

If you mention at court that your dad is putting money towards the mortgage you are weakening your case against your husband, as it will look and be as if you have access to other financial resources outside of the marital assets, and therefore not needing as much financial help from your husband as you claim to do. You said you put the deposit down of your first house, but believe me, since you are married, it doesn't matter who did: The assets belong to both of you and same goes for the debts.

It is a minefield. But this is something I wish someone had told me BEFORE we went to court over the minutiae of things: Before a judge could rule, you have to be to court three times. You are expected to negotiate to get to an agreement in between court appearances (via solicitor, mediators, yourselves), but he or you can always ignore the other party's requests/demands/offers/negotiating efforts until a judge offers a ruling.

He can stop paying the mortgage and any other bills if he wishes to. And he can't be forced to pay until there is an order made by court (in a final hearing in the worst case). If you are lucky, you may get reimbursed for the expenses if that order is favourable to you but it could take between months and years for you to get the court to rule. And in the mean time the bill is running high.

Hence the need to keep the negotiating channels open, find a mediator, try to sort the stuff out of court. Everybody suggests using solicitors but very few know that in plain terms, a solicitor charges an average of £3 a minute, a barrister way more than that. A day in court with a solicitor may easily cost more than £1000, a barrister for a day... I have no idea but mine was about £3000.

So my advice, better to save the money to put down a deposit on another house.

Talking about savings, one of the things my solicitor said which was actually pretty good advice was to take advantage of the good times (while he was still paying mortgage, private school, etc) and get myself in a better financial position before getting the courts involved. Because once the courts were involved, the rug was, as she predicted, pulled under my feet. Fortunately by then I was in a better position to deal with things, the house prices had gone down a bit which made things more affordable and I had increased my working hours/salary a bit.

So my advice, better to save the money to put down a deposit on another house.

Yep. Or, as an alternative, offer it to X as a buyout. You'd need to get estate agents' estimates (at least three) and demonstrate there's little or no equity to be drawn, then make a low offer that's better than the nothing he will get if the house is sold soon. This wouldn't reduce your mortgage any - but maybe your parents or other family member would be prepared to take on joint ownership with you?

However you play it, please be careful your Dad isn't putting money in his pocket. The bank won't care about this, tbh, so take legal advice.

I really hope today's meeting has left you feeling more grounded, Lou. All the best.

Thanks, I wasn't aware about my husband being able to make a claim to any money my Dad puts into the house. So may be divorce is the best option.

Anyway, if husband's name IS off the house ownership, there is a chance I could maintain this house if I find full time work. My Dad is able to put down a significant sum that would help me to do this. So fingers crossed this is the point we will reach at some point.

Solicitors tomorrow, so next stage to come. But trying to bide my time too and make careful decisions, really don't feel I can make anything 'definite' until I decide what to do re: the pregnancy. At the moment I just want to regain some sort of control. The Building Society confirmed today he hasn't been in contact yet re: stopping paying the mortgage, and they will let me know if he does this.

On another note, the prat texted me again. 'I am very very sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused you. I can see no way back from this. We need to talk, can I call you tonight' xxx

So, for that read, 'Shit, I am panicking. My Mum and Dad have left answerphone messages about where I am and what I've done. They know you're pregnant. My 'knock off' doesn't, so I want you to get an abortion. I need to talk to you to bullshit even more and to persuade you not to have the baby'.

Twat. Ignoring. Very very hard, but ignoring.

Ignore,ignore,ignore!!!!!!!!! keep saying twat,twat,lying twat, lying cheating twat to yourself. I bet his Parents have been on to him.Bastard.

Good news about maybe being able to keep the house

Great news with regard to the house.

Good job on not replying. I think the brown stuff is about to hit the whirry thing! Karma is coming to getcha chutneytwunt.

Well done on the ignoring, Lou, keep it up! Your interpretation of his message sounds spot-on. Twat (him, not you!)

Yes anything paid off your home before he is off the mortgage would be half his.

Don't give this poor excuse of a man into your head space. Expect persistent texts when you don't 'jump' like last time.

I wouldn't be revealing to the solicitor or anybosy else that you'll be getting help from your parents. It could well effect any maintenance payments for you and baby and any settlement he has to give you.

Keep ignoring Lou! Well done so far, I know it is so hard. And expect more and more dramatic texts as you don't respond. He is desperate for a response from you.

Could you try saving his number under "If I answer this twat I lose control" to remind you not to, in the heat of the moment. It's what I have mt STBEx under. It has worked mostly.

Thinking of you x

"I can't see a way back from this". He doesn't get to decide if there is or isn't a way back!! I wish there was some way you didn't have to keep reading his manipulative text messages.

I third the idea of a lodger.
Maybe a nice woman who could be company for you?

"'I am very very sorry for all the pain and hurt I have caused you. I can see no way back from this. We need to talk, can I call you tonight' xxx"

I think, in his mind, when you read this message, you'll be desperate to convince him that there IS a way back. Because he still thinks you're hanging around desperately waiting for him to come back and spread the chutney love once more.

And then he can convince you to do what he wants, whether it's have an abortion or move out of the house or whatever, then he'll trot back to his new squeeze having "tried his best".

Arrogant twat to think whether he can see a way back from this is even slightly important. Don't talk to him. If he has something he claims is desperately urgent, let him talk to your Dad.

Hi Lou, please don't do anything in a hurry. I have a very good solicitor and she told me that the less money i am seen to have the better, so i should even keep my current account low (as if i had a choice - i wish). you need to look as hard up as possible so that your solicitor can argue you a good settlement which the judge will agree to. it's not so straightforward without kids and the judge will need to see that you both have a fair amount each to start again on. you do not want your dad's kind offer to hold you back on this. my parents have helped me with the divorce costs, but my ex doesn't know this because he will argue and say that my parents can help me out more in the future. it sounds sneaky, but you have to be really careful. also i know you don't want to divorce yet with so much thinking to do and adjusting to the situation, but i think that you won't be able to secure finances without divorce, unless a legal separation is possible, i don't know anything about these, but perhaps someone here does.

Yes, yes, I know you're all right. There is 'no way back', I KNOW that, so why he feels he's got the right to state it, heaven only knows. Just goes to prove the counselling was all a stupid sham, every move he makes just proves what a deceitful dishonorable twunt he is. You were all right!

I hope he is shitting himself, quietly, somewhere alone, whilst still trying to act the charmer in front of easy knickers.

There is no way back because he chose to bah eve in the most dispicable way. I wish my STBXH had gone to counselling with me so that we could have talked through all the stuff that I need to know but he refuses. I fear that your ex will merely use it to explain all the reasons and just make you feel even worse.

Any equity in the house is what becomes split so please get the solicitor to advise on this as your dad will be creating equity a d I would hate chutney to benefit from that.

think my money will be received on the day I remortgage after the divorce.

You are doing so well.

Another lurker delurking..

Isn't it extraordinary that he is even talking about "a way back from this"? If he had left with a suitcase and then said he had had an affair but wanted to find a way forward with you, then yes, there might be " a way back from this". He, though, emptied absolutely all of his belongings from the house with no prior warning. His despicable behaviour guarantees there is no way back from this. How odd that he does not see that.

Sending you all good wishes Lou.

Urgh. He's such a piece of work - he has no idea about pain and hurt does he? makes that comment even worse. The only person he's sorry for is himself, as you say LouP he's probably panicking as his cover is about to be blown.

I don't think you should talk to him, as he will put pressure on re:baby, and you really don't need more mind fucking from him. Maybe refer him to your dad or brother if he has something urgent to discuss at this point.

Thinking of you x

If you decide to go ahead with the divorce, hold off on your dad putting any money into the house, don't tell chutney and get a nice healthy settlement first. If he asks how you intend to keep the house on that's none of his business. Take him for whatever you can and as others have said, if you decide to keep the baby, he will be obliged to financially support the child until s/he is 18 so you will have that money coming in.
He's such an arsehole, you really do deserve so much better and you will get that in time.

I just cannot emphasise enough how much you need professional legal advice.

Firstly, the building society will be far keener to see a forced sale of the house if there is positive equity in it. For that reason, their "advice" and your best interest are not likely to be aligned. Secondly, you are married and there are assets to consider. Your husband removed what he considered to be his possessions from the house but if they were used within the marriage and were not personal, you have a right to half the value of them, or maybe to get them back should you prefer it. Thirdly, you put a lump sum into your house and he paid the mortgage. Someone needs to do a proper (i.e NPV) calculation to compare your contributions. And finally (and most importantly), there is the question of your pregnancy/potential child.

I agree with all who say that solicitors are expensive and negotiated settlements are better. I am not an expert but believe many solicitors' firms offer a mediation service ahead of litigation. Maybe you should try to find one of those. You seem to have a very kind and supportive birth family. I think that helping you to find (and quietly pay for) a decent solicitor would be a very good use of this resource. Your (I suspect soon to be ex) husband needs to receive a well written letter precisely outlining his behaviour and the legal consequences thereof. It can then include a reasonable offer of a clean-break settlement, which hopefully he will jump at. I think you may find helping to create this letter a satisfying and cathartic experience :). At some point you need to let go the animosity and move on, especially if you end up co-parents. On the other hand, I think it is far too early for that and a little quid pro quo would be fair and satisfying.

The alternative to the above is to continue to be texted, cajoled, gaslighted etc.

Perhaps his parents have left him an angry and disgusted text or voicemail now that they are aware of his unbelievably appalling behaviour. Maybe they have indicated that they will do nothing to facilitate his new lifestyle, or support him in any way while this goes on.

3kids, I had a legal separation, the financial details are worked out exactly the same way as for divorce, you get a Deed of Separation document. The conditions were a separation period of two years, after which either party could petition for divorce with the agreement of the other and no hindrance. It is less final than divorce, and probably best if neither party is separating for reasons of adultery, or are in new relationships. It's more an agreement of division of assets, and I doubt it would be suitable where there is dispute over these. It just gives an easier way back if you want to try again and make a go of the relationship.

However, there are risks as I found out from my mothers solicitor, when we discussed power of attorney. If I had this there was the potential for my ex to try to claim on it because we were not divorced, and also if Mum died he could try to claim from any bequest in her will to me, because I would be better off financially and he could pay much less maintenance for DS. So as stated upthread, Lou's ex might try that if he finds out about any financial help from her parents before a divorce is finally decree absolute. We all know he isn't to be trusted.