Think my DH is sleeping with someone but can't prove it - WWYD?

[Brassica]

This is long, sorry. My DH and I have been married for 6 years and have 18 month old twins. He has previously been a completely exemplary husband - so loving, thoughtful, attentive, reassuring, fun-loving, cuddly, open, kind... Yet recently I have found myself more and more sure that he is cheating because there is stuff I just can't explain any other way, and most of it revolves around the use of his work Blackberry.

1. Firstly, he is quite distant. Gone are the spontaneous hugs, hand holds, kisses, 'love you's, etc and that was the first thing I noticed. I put it down to being so rushed with the twins that opportunities to do it are lost. We have averaged sex about once a month since they came along - I have not been initiating it really because of tiredness/slight hang ups over my body but he has not seemed bothered at all - has never seemed discontent about it.
2. He disappears upstairs on his own every evening (at least once, sometimes several times) and is not checking on the twins. Gone for 5-15 minutes each time. No mention when he comes down that he's been doing anything. Each time it is when I am safely occupied with something - washing up, watching something on TV. Yesterday I quietly came upstairs to see if I could hear what he was doing but couldn't - all I could tell was he was in our room with the lights off and when I asked 'what were you doing in there?!' he just said 'nothing' and stepped into the twins' room to check on them.
3. He keeps his Blackberry on his person at all times - which he has never done before. In the past if he's needed to look at work emails etc then it has been done openly and explaining that he's promised to deal with something.
4. Keeping his Blackberry on him is done secretly - I only know because I check his bag periodically at times when it should be there and it's not, but then a bit later it quietly reappears.
5. The reason why I have started checking where it is is that the other week he came in very late after a work night out, and although he woke me up I think he thought I'd dozed off again. He stood with his back to the bed tapping away on a device - I thought he must be checking cricket scores on his phone or something, but then at the end he dropped the device into his bag and it was therefore his Blackberry. At 1.30am and while drunk/tired is anyone checking work emails?
6. I can't remember when it started but for a while now (weeks? months?) he has engineered a reason to leave the house without me on days when we are there together - volunteering to take the twins for a walk "so I can have a break" or going to the supermarket, or on Sunday going into town to see the end of the women's road race. On Sunday he took his camera with him and in the bag was his Blackberry (I had a very swift look)...
7. It was my birthday the other week - a 'special' one - and although he ticked all the boxes pretty much like taking me out for lunch, it didn't feel like a special one from his end. He didn't say happy birthday for about the first 5 minutes we were awake, he didn't remember to get me a present or card from the twins, he didn't 'make a fuss of me'. I had a party with lots of friends and family and I think the old DH would have said a few words but he didn't.

So it's just unsubstantiated hunches but I am struggling to see why he would be doing this stuff apart from to allow him to contact someone else either by phone or text/email without me knowing. The twins must serve as a great distraction because he knows when I am dealing with them I can't do much else.

I tried to broach the subject the other day but only got as far as addressing the distant attitude, which he has apparently tried to put right the last few days, so there have been more kisses and a bit more attentiveness, but he didn't even react when I mentioned about our sex life being too sporadic. I felt as though I couldn't challenge him on the Blackberry use because I don't have a shred of evidence.

So what would you do? I don't have a clue what the password is for his Blackberry so I can't take a look at it (on the rare occasion it's not on his person). If I bring up my suspicions then he's just going to deny it, isn't he? He'll find reasons to explain it and cast doubt on my gut feeling. I find it unbelievable that he, of all people, could cheat, but then I find the way he's behaving even more unbelievable at the moment.

Dont want to derail the thread but arthriticfingers, your summary of events is sooo eeerily spot on..... Which got me thinking... because there is not a lot of variation in the actions of these cheaters, why cant we think of a foolproof course of action to catch them?

Mine even managed to 'lose' 2 men I had following him.....

For all those who keep saying get hold of his blackberry or his bills or log in to his emails - I can't. It's a work phone so the bills get sent to the office, any emails are on his work email address, the blackberry is almost always secreted about his person, it has a password to unlock it which I don't know and which will reveal to him if I've been trying to guess it (it counts down how many guesses out of 8 or 10 or something). I'm completely unable to access any information on what's going on with the BB unless I catch him using it. It wouldn't ring true to ask to use it, because he has a personal mobile which is in clear view when he's at home.

He hasn't got a Facebook account nor does he use a private email address from home.

I have looked through his personal mobile phone bill and it's all innocuous - calls to mum, me, texts to dad. Same with his bank statements and credit card bills. Nothing at all unusual there, even down to cash withdrawals. I found a receipt for last Thursday (out for work summer party) and it was for the right bar but the receipt said 'Waits 2, Roxane, Btl Rose, £22.50' or something. Does 'waits 2' mean the number of people at the table? Because that's obviously really iffy when he was at a big gathering, supposedly.

I looked back at old text messages between us and it reminded me that there was a period in the early part of this year when any night out ended up being much later than expected. On several occasions he texted early evening to say he was finishing up and then nothing until he rolled in much, much later. One night it was about 3am before he came in. I remember I bollocked him then and said it was not OK to set false expectations - if you say you're leaving soon then you've got to, otherwise be honest and say it might be a late one. He apologised and hasn't really done it since. Thinking back, it could be about then that he cooled off a bit in terms of physical contact.

Yesterday when he was showering I looked for the BB, and it wasn't anywhere. So was it in the bathroom with him?!

Charbon thank you for your response about typical reactions and what they reveal - that was really helpful.

I still don't know what to do. The idea of moving his bag when the BB isn't there, so that he has to admit he is looking for it, is quite a good one. In view of the fact that I am nearly powerless to snoop I am becoming more and more tempted simply to open a conversation with a very everyday tone of voice - "Oh by the way, how long have you been seeing someone behind my back?" and see how he reacts.

Our son was taken ill in the early hours of this morning and had to go to hospital (he is OK now). I seriously hope that that served as a wake up call for him about what he is jeopardising if he is cheating on me.

Oh, and if I sound composed it's because I haven't allowed myself really to start feeling this yet. I have phases where I can't stop shaking and can't concentrate on anything else, but am not yet feeling the full force of what it would mean if vows have been broken.

I would assume that the receipt was waitress 2, called Roxanne and a bottle of rose.
So it could be a big gathering.

When If OP announces the discovery of OW, will Cybbo apologise? Hmmm.

OP: you can get on ebay, a memory stick that also is a voice recording device, for about £13. Put it in his car.

Also, you can get a recording camera in the shape of a clock/teddy whatever. If he goes in a set room, you could put one there.

Good luck.

PS: the asking to use his phone when out is a good one. 'It would be perfect if you could say, "What's your password?" in a really normal voice.' - and then hand it back absolutely casually and talk about something else.

[Whilst you write the password on your thigh for a later date.]

I GOT my H's password, but couldn't remember it and I suppose was in too much denial to write it down. For months I enabled the affair this way.

I do hope your son is better today and that you've recovered from your fright. Poor you and poor him. It never rains but it pours does it?

There really is no valid reason for you not to have the password to his phone, unless there is information on it that would compromise national security if a non-vetted person got hold of it, so there are two alternative approaches I'd recommend.

One is that you ensure before going out that you don't have your phone with you AND that he doesn't have his personal phone either. Then invent an excuse to need a phone to make a call and ask for the password to do so. His reaction will be very telling, especially if you disappear out of sight and earshot to make that call.

Or you sit down with him and tell him your fears and why you've got them, explaining that if you subsequently find out that he is lying to you about an affair that you will have no compunction in divorcing him. Depending on how you feel about infidelity, you might say that depending on what he tells you, you might be able to forgive an affair as long as it ends, but you won't be able to forgive being lied to and made to feel that you are paranoid.

FWIW I have known a couple of people who took the approach you mention i.e. pretending that they knew more than they did. In one case it was successful and produced a confession, but in the other the spouse counter-attacked with accusations of the person being mad and a liar. Both were actually having affairs, by the way.

If he is up to something, his car is the place where he'll feel safest. If you can record him in there, you'll know whether you have something to worry about.

Is he texting/emailing on his Blackberry or talking?

Either way, if he's texting at home and if he's up to something, he certainly won't be texting in his car.

I was in denial for nearly a year, and wished I'd snooped properly a lot earlier. I would definitely set up a voice recorder in the room he disappears to ... if you have a smartphone, there are sound-activated apps that start the audio recorder. Otherwise, a dictaphone or similar?

Also, if you can engineer it sometime, would it be possible to put the simcard from his blackberry into your phone for a while, so you could see what texts arrive?

What Imperialbletherer said on page one is the way to go
I sat him down and said, "How long have you been having an affair

I would think the longer it is allowed to go on the more likely it is that he believes that this is what he wants.

If he has a gambling or porn problem then he'll no doubt admit that forcibly if you accuse him of having an affair. It seems that he is almost encouraging you to be suspicious with sneaking about upstairs in the dark. WTF.

If you start acting suspicious you are giving him time to make a plan with the OW - 'i think my wife knows about us' and no doubt with her help it will be easier for him to deceive you or whatever they decide together.

Sit him down facing you at a time when you will NOT be disturbed and make the statement above. And, v important, just wait for an answer however long it takes, and it will take time as he tries to come up with a convincing answer if he is having an affair, and if he denies it then say 'you know', as in Imperial's post.

If he Does have an explanation then good and you can move on together but if he doesn't but denies it then insist on seeing his phone. If he refuses you have your answer.

It is the secrecy that adds to the excitement and thrill of an affair so letting him know you know stops that immediately so puts you in a better position.

If you are wrong then I don't see what you lose as his behaviour is v suspicious and you can say you love him dearly and were frightened for your marriage.

I think I would also ask him to move out if he says he is having an affair, just to make him come to his senses and see that his little bit of fun has serious consequences, though I would hope that in the end it doesn't come to that.

Oh, and thinking about it make sure his BB is in the house so that if you ask to see it he can't say he left it at work. Claiming that would give him time to delete what he wants.

Personally I think confrontation is easier for you than snooping. Just trying to do something like put a microphone in the car can be v difficult without looking suspect and is v stressful, your heart would be thumping as you crept about trying to not be seen.

And with twins you can't follow him easily.

Also it brings things to a head rather than days of anxiety and suspicion and there might be a simple answer.

So sorry you are going through this op. I recall feeling like I'd vomit checking through exp's stuff for clues - its not fun

So sorry you are going through this. In my experience asking only threw up denials that I believed.
The behaviour you have described could have been my exh in the last year of our marriage, keeping his phone to himself, distant, loss of affection, keeping mobile glued to him, physical side of things tailing off plus more showers, not coming home for lunch anymore, just generally us not being close any more and him not interested in ds or my pregnancy.

I asked but he said ' no! Don't be stupid'

I waited still not convinced. One day whilst he was in the shower I heard his phone make a tone it hadn't made before and I realised he had left it in our room, I seized the opportunity to have a look as it was strange it wasn't his usual ring tone. Checked his texts nothing there. So i then thought maybe he has missed an appointment so I opened his calender to check and stumbled on 100's of texts saved to his calender from OW. he obviously thought he was being clever hiding them there.
It was definitely a case of following my instincts and my instincts were right.

I never and anyone we knew would have even guessed he was the kind of man to do that.

I dearly hope this isn't the case for you but your must follow your instincts on this.

Looking back now I wish I had followed him when I first suspected but couldn't put my finger on what was wrong. I'd have caught them on the park picnicking together

Act if you genuinely believe what your instincts are telling you as sick as it might make you feel.

Brassica, all good advice here...I just want you to know that whatever you find out, as difficult as it may seem now, if the worst happens, you will cope and life will be good again. I remember how I felt when going through what you are now.... I wasnt able to access any email or phone, which I knew held the answer. The feeling of being absolutely powerless is awful, but you have a lot of support here, just keep posting...............

One other way of putting the question that might elicit a useful answer is 'Is ther any reason why someone would suggest to me you are having an affair?' Then, silence, as per Imperial's suggestion.

Only brief as no time but...thanks so much to all who are replying and being so kind! I hugely appreciate the words of support.

As for passwords - it's effectively his work email on the move more than a work-paid-for phone. No reason why I should know that password - employers are very strict about letting anyone see your email, even spouses. He doesn't know mine and it is actually only right I don't know his. My trouble is that stuff on that phone/email potentially affects me and my babies.

In my experience you will not find out what is on the phone, and we all know it almost certainly holds the anwers. Could you have him followed?

Hi OP, I'm so sorry you are having this additional anxiety along with the stress of twins and your poor DS being ill. I hope he's better now. Perhaps I am being Pollyannaish, but I am still in the 'maybe totally innocent' camp so for me the idea of confronting him asking him 'how long have you been having this affair' seems a bit out-of-nowhere if you see what I mean (I know that's kind of the point). One thing that could work maybe is - can you say to him 'I notice you've been on your Blackberry a lot lately, I assume it's work, please can you not check it when you're at home?', and see if he does leave it alone. With regards to the going out at weekends etc, can you just insist on going with him? I appreciate the feedback you've had from people who've been in the same situation and it turns out it was an affair, but I think there is still a chance it is something else - work stress, internet addiction, porn, etc... All the best OP.

Then I think you've either got to sit him down and explain your fears, as per my second option - or wait and see if more evidence comes to light.

I couldn't help noticing what you said about the amount of nights out he seems to have, despite the fact that you've got 18-month old twins. Would it occur to you to stay out so late socialising so frequently, with two babies of this age and him at home caring for them? What would his reaction be if you did? The person who fails to pull his weight in a relationship is the person most vulnerable to an affair and that apparent imbalance of leisure time while you're left looking after the babies suggests that he can be extremely selfish.

The core behaviour in affairs of course is selfishness.

If you choose to speak to him about this, personally I would start with what's in the open domain and is irrefutable; your sense of his distance, the lack of affection, intimacy and sex, your hurt feelings about not getting a card and present from the children (despite what someone said upthread, I don't know a Mum or Dad who doesn't do that), his secrecy and sudden appetite to leave the house for any reason, the attachment to his phone even in the bathroom, his nights out and the times he comes home only to use his 'business' phone at 1.30 in the morning. The unfairness of that when you've got 2 babies but only you seem to have been given the responsibility to look after them during these evenings out.

Reverse the behaviour as much as you can so that you can get him to imagine how he might feel if he were you. Also, chronicle the changes in behaviour e.g. 'for my last special birthday you did X' ; 'you used to be much more affectionate and always said you loved me'; 'you never used to socialise this much after work and when you did, you never arrived home this late'; 'when you first got your Blackberry, you didn't used to take it everywhere with you.'

Concentrate on how you are feeling about these things; unloved, unappreciated, undesirable to him, not 'special' anymore. Because how you feel is irrefutable, as are the facts that are in the open domain. Ask him to account for all of this before sharing your suspicions - and if you get anything other than a confession of an affair then revert to what I suggested about lying at that point being the end of your relationship. And be deadly serious about that.

I think 18m/o twins plus very little sex is a more likely explanation than jumping straight to the assumption of an affair.

A more likely explanation for what?

Staying out at night while his wife cares for the twins, being obsessed with his Blackberry and not buying his wife a card and a present from his children?

How come his wife who also has 18m/o twins and wants more sex and affection, doesn't behave like this?

a well-known apologist for bad male behaviour should have no sway on this thread

carry on as before

Snoop, snoop, snoop as much as you can. You are better off knowing as much info as you can. If it is an affair you can then obtain copies of all the financial info you WILL NEED before tipping your hand. Do try to get into the email. Having read some of my stbexh and OW emails it strengthens me whenever I show weakness. They were so bitchy and unpleasant about me.