Think my DH is sleeping with someone but can't prove it - WWYD?

[Brassica]

This is long, sorry. My DH and I have been married for 6 years and have 18 month old twins. He has previously been a completely exemplary husband - so loving, thoughtful, attentive, reassuring, fun-loving, cuddly, open, kind... Yet recently I have found myself more and more sure that he is cheating because there is stuff I just can't explain any other way, and most of it revolves around the use of his work Blackberry.

1. Firstly, he is quite distant. Gone are the spontaneous hugs, hand holds, kisses, 'love you's, etc and that was the first thing I noticed. I put it down to being so rushed with the twins that opportunities to do it are lost. We have averaged sex about once a month since they came along - I have not been initiating it really because of tiredness/slight hang ups over my body but he has not seemed bothered at all - has never seemed discontent about it.
2. He disappears upstairs on his own every evening (at least once, sometimes several times) and is not checking on the twins. Gone for 5-15 minutes each time. No mention when he comes down that he's been doing anything. Each time it is when I am safely occupied with something - washing up, watching something on TV. Yesterday I quietly came upstairs to see if I could hear what he was doing but couldn't - all I could tell was he was in our room with the lights off and when I asked 'what were you doing in there?!' he just said 'nothing' and stepped into the twins' room to check on them.
3. He keeps his Blackberry on his person at all times - which he has never done before. In the past if he's needed to look at work emails etc then it has been done openly and explaining that he's promised to deal with something.
4. Keeping his Blackberry on him is done secretly - I only know because I check his bag periodically at times when it should be there and it's not, but then a bit later it quietly reappears.
5. The reason why I have started checking where it is is that the other week he came in very late after a work night out, and although he woke me up I think he thought I'd dozed off again. He stood with his back to the bed tapping away on a device - I thought he must be checking cricket scores on his phone or something, but then at the end he dropped the device into his bag and it was therefore his Blackberry. At 1.30am and while drunk/tired is anyone checking work emails?
6. I can't remember when it started but for a while now (weeks? months?) he has engineered a reason to leave the house without me on days when we are there together - volunteering to take the twins for a walk "so I can have a break" or going to the supermarket, or on Sunday going into town to see the end of the women's road race. On Sunday he took his camera with him and in the bag was his Blackberry (I had a very swift look)...
7. It was my birthday the other week - a 'special' one - and although he ticked all the boxes pretty much like taking me out for lunch, it didn't feel like a special one from his end. He didn't say happy birthday for about the first 5 minutes we were awake, he didn't remember to get me a present or card from the twins, he didn't 'make a fuss of me'. I had a party with lots of friends and family and I think the old DH would have said a few words but he didn't.

So it's just unsubstantiated hunches but I am struggling to see why he would be doing this stuff apart from to allow him to contact someone else either by phone or text/email without me knowing. The twins must serve as a great distraction because he knows when I am dealing with them I can't do much else.

I tried to broach the subject the other day but only got as far as addressing the distant attitude, which he has apparently tried to put right the last few days, so there have been more kisses and a bit more attentiveness, but he didn't even react when I mentioned about our sex life being too sporadic. I felt as though I couldn't challenge him on the Blackberry use because I don't have a shred of evidence.

So what would you do? I don't have a clue what the password is for his Blackberry so I can't take a look at it (on the rare occasion it's not on his person). If I bring up my suspicions then he's just going to deny it, isn't he? He'll find reasons to explain it and cast doubt on my gut feeling. I find it unbelievable that he, of all people, could cheat, but then I find the way he's behaving even more unbelievable at the moment.

An affair is a symptom that something is wrong in the relationship. If something is worng with the relationship, would snooping, confronting, mistrusting help the relationship out at all? No, of course it wouldn't. To me anything else apart from honesty and open communication is only going to be detrimental to the relationship.

The OP and her DH need to have an honest talk. Clearly she feels that there is something wrong, and she wants him to change. He needs to understand exactly what she wants from him; Less secrecy about the phone? More affection? More time together? She also needs to let him know that she doesn't feel that he is making an effort and this needs to change.

If he is having an affair or not is not the issue, it is if he is into the relationship or not that is; he could have checked out of the relationship without having an affair.

I would concentrate on exactly how you are acting to help the relationship and keep him happy, and to let him know how he can keep you happy and let him know when you think he is falling short of what you want from a husband.

If he still doesn't make an effort in the relationship, then clearly difficult decisions need to be made, but don't focus on the symptoms, focus on the cause.

Charbon - the reason my words were in inverted commas is because i was quoting someone up thread. I think what i have tried to do is provide a balanced view. There is some excellent advice of course, but comments such as yours in reply to my post are extremely unhelpful and wilfully/ unnecessarily alarmist. Your response is exactly what i was referring to with your very pointed 'denial's an interesting phase' comment. Don't judge everyone by your own standards or experience please. I have neither hidden away nor become angry - i am simply pointing out that sometimes people are wrong. And yes, some people (including those who have been ill treated in similar circumstances themselves) will be respond to threads asking for help by suggesting that all men are bastards. They aren't.

Natural worrier, an affair is a sign that one partner is cheating and nothing more.

Open communication and trust only works in a relationship where both partners want that (not where one person is cheating).

I would concentrate on exactly how you are are acting to help the relationship and keep him happy

I think that pretty well sums up your advice.

Matana you do come across as a bit defensive/denial. You say you caught your DH out texting (rabbit in headlights) but he wasn't having an affair. What was he doing then? Thinking about one? Just about to start but got cold feet (or caught)? Arranging a surprise party for you?

Nobody is saying that all men are bastards - I don't think they are (and that's where you sound defensive). The OP's gut instinct is that he's having an affair, her description is of a man having an affair, the experience of women who's partners have had affairs backs her up. I'd go with her gut instinct.

What???

Why would someone have an affair if they are happy in the relationship? They wouldn't. If they are cheating it is a sign they are not happy. If they want to work on the relationship is a seperate issue.

and if you are going to quote, please don't take things out of context, I also said "and to let him know how he can keep you happy and let him know when you think he is falling short of what you want from a husband." A relationship takes two people to make it work.

You are wrong Naturalworrier, lots of men cheat when there is nothing wrong within their relationships, in very many cases it's all about the cheater and the permission they give themselves to have affairs, not their partner.

Very often, men who are about to embark on affairs create relationship issues as a way of disconnecting from their partners, I've seen the evidence of that hundreds of times on here.

Natural - affair experts all agree that an affair is all about the cheater's issues and personality flaws. This is why the advice on being the perfect wife to prevent your husband from cheating very rarely works and this is borne out by many betrayed spouses on here

This is not to say that all relationships have weaknesses though and that each spouse has 50% responsibility for investing in the relationship.

NaturalWorrier, I have known someone who had another woman, proposed to his girlfriend, carried on seeing the OW, got married, carried on seeing the OW...

Hard to see how his marriage was bad when he was the one suggesting he went into it!

People cheat for all sorts of reasons Natural - one of them could be dissatisfaction with a relationship, but it could also be a sense of entitlement, a need for excitement or just really weak will-power.

I highlighted the part of your quote that I thought summed up your attitude.

How are things going op??

Just read your post....I feel for you. This is going to eat you up inside. I too couldn't access anything my husband used due to passwords...

You have to ask him. Just ask him and follow your instincts.

Goodluck love

Well I truely beleive that no one would have an affair if they were truely happy in their current relationship. Sometimes seeing something "better" would make them realise what is wrong with the relationship granted.

Don't get me wrong, cheating / affairs are wrong, and if you choose to cheat rather than deal with the issues in your relationship then you are a coward and an idiot. Personally, if I was tempted to cheat, the first thing I would ask myself is why am I looking elsewhere? What is it with the relationship that I don't like? What am I looking for? I wouldn't think "oh it doesn't matter if I cheat", most people would agree cheating is wrong.

I just think that you can't change what other people think or do, you can only change what you do or how you react to things. In this context, if you assume that nothing is going on and the OP is simply being paranoid and the OH finds her snooping around, mistrusting him and maybe even being confrontational, what is that going to do? It is simply going to drive the OH away even more. If he is having an affair, then asking him why he is unhappy would change their relationship and make him realise what an idiot he has been and get him to make more of an effort in the relationship.

I would ask what the OP wants from the relationship; does she want it to work or not? If she does, then she needs to tell her OH why she is unhappy; he may just not realise there is an issue. If he fails to change, then she needs to look at ending the relationship.

You can believe it all you want NW, doesn't make it true though.
FWIW, I thought exactly the same as you up until a few years ago, search for the affair "script" on here, it's almost unbelievable just how many men behave in exactly the same way when they are about to have an affair.
Men who do this will lie and lie, it's no use having a "reasonable" conversation with them, they engineer relationship problems to give themselves a reason to cheat and have no interest in being honest.

If what you are saying was even partly true, a gentle, honest conversation would be all that was needed to stop people having affairs and make them realise what they stand to lose.

It just doesn't work that way.

Well I truely beleive that no one would have an affair if they were truely happy in their current relationship.

Natural - maybe you're right. But being 'truly happy' - that's a big ask, isn't it? Some people are insecure and constantly need reassurance from others that they are attractive. Having young children (especially twins) puts a huge strain on relationships and in long marriages/relationships most people admit to times when they weren't happy. When you go through bereavement, you're not happy. It's not about happiness, it's about respect and love and not being a dickhead.

I know men who've cheated and regretted it (a good friend of mine). His wife was depressed at the time following her father's death and her redundancy and he wasn't getting enough attention (so he wasn't happy). Your world view means she's not allowed to be depressed - she has to make him happy. He's not a bastard - although he acted like one. He wishes he hadn't done it, but he did, because he wasn't happy.

To paraphrase a much missed and respected poster, it's the person who isn't "giving" enough to the relationship who is the likely candidate for an affair, not the person who isn't "getting" enough.

Fair enough there are times when people are not happy in relationships, such as a fathers death and redundancy, that doesn't mean a person needs to change the way they feel or act (ie: she is allowed to be depressed). In that situation, the OH should have known his OH enough to realise that the unhappiness is temporary (there is a reason for it), and so supported her as much as her can to get her through it (and kept his trousers on).

I agree that being truely happy all the time is near impossible, and when the bad times happen, then it comes down to respect and love and not being a dickhead and not cheating.

I just think that looking at it another way, if the OP thinks that her relationship is happy at the moment, then he wouldn't be cheating. So then it is a case of finding out either why he is acting strangely, which may have a perfectly reasonable explanation to it; the only way to find this out is by talking to her OH.

NW - I had the conversation with my DH a few times, asked him what was wrong etc. He said that he was stressed at work, denied there was anything else then finally gave me the I don't love you script.

I was devastated and shocked as I really thought we had a good and happy marriage, came on here and was advised to start snooping around - and thanks goodness I did because finding out he was cheating meant I realised what was really happening.

And it was all about him and his issue and flaws.

Anyway, OP - hope you are ok?

Yes, I miss WWIFN too.

NW haven't you seen the countless threads here from people who were cheated on who thought they were in happy relationships ?

there is one small, but salient, fact you seem to be dismissing from your mind

people who cheat tell lies

Matana if you'd seen my posts from the last few days, you certainly wouldn't think I believe that 'all men are bastards' and I happen to have been married to one for over 30 years, about whom I certainly don't have that opinion

I don't think people having affairs are necessarily 'bastards' either for that matter, or that they are all desperately unhappy souls trapped in miserable marriages. Very few affairs these days match that stereotype.

Far more affairs these days are about blurred boundaries in workplace or social network friendships, between people who are in good relationships with people they love. People about whom anyone would say they 'weren't the type to cheat' and critically, involving people who said that about themselves.

I've had a couple of temptations in my married life and I know my partner has too. Probably like another poster said a few posts back, in our young and naive days we wondered whether something was 'missing' in our marriage to be feeling that way, but once we worked out it was because of some other factor, such as an unexpected level of attention after weight loss, or feeling very low in a particular job and using a flirtation to brighten the monotony of it, we worked it out! Fortunately, neither of is daft enough to think that we won't find others attractive from time to time and that's helped too. If it happened now, we'd both wonder:

"Hmmmm.....What's going on with me right now?" and not "What's missing in my marriage?"

I also miss WWIFN.

natural worrier, once you've been around the relationship boards a while, you will discover that many many men in perfectly good marriages do cheat. Why? Because they can, for an ego boost, excitement, a million reasons that have NOTHING to do with their relationship with their wife. And yes, many manufacture "problems" to give them an excuse to distance themselves and create their "permission" to have an affair.
Bless, when I read your line about "well I truly believe..." I just thought how lovely you sound. But the hundreds of threads there have been about cheating husbands means there is a "script" and no, the wife could not have done anything to stop the cheater cheating, because it's about HIM not THEM.

NW, some people just do cheat. DH has a friend of sorts who is jist congenitally incapable of keeping it in his pants. If he talks about his marriage it's all about how bright and sexy and funny his wife is and how he loves her a lot, and how her only flaw is that she doesn't recognise his need to have sex with other people as well.

NW I understand why you are clinging to this notion that only people in unhappy relationships can and will cheat

it makes you feel safer doesn't it, and that is human nature ?

a bit like thinking other horrible things like getting burgled/mugged etc only happen to other people

that if you do your best to make him happy, look nice for him, don't let yourself go, make sure you don't put the kids before him...all will be well

think again

"An affair is a symptom that something is wrong in the relationship. If something is worng with the relationship, would snooping, confronting, mistrusting help the relationship out at all? No, of course it wouldn't. To me anything else apart from honesty and open communication is only going to be detrimental to the relationship.

The OP and her DH need to have an honest talk. "

And you live in la la land. You have NO IDEA what you are babbling on about.

Natural worrier, let me tell you a little bit about affairs: first of all, they are about DECEIT. Then they are about SECRECY. Then, after that they are about TRIANGULATION. And, they happen WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT.

Not too much that is honest, in that is there? Where do you think this 'honest talk' is going to happen? Your stupid assumptions still hold that there is a 'partnership' of equal responsiblity when actually the reality is that one person is acting UNILATERALLY (look that up in the dictionary) and is going to enormous lengths to keep it so: he has the exciting new twat AND he has his family. How many times have you read here 'he is being strange but tells me there is nothing/I'm mad/he's stressed/it's work'. Wake up, woman! Do you think we talk about being blindsided and being devastated, because we are delicate little flowers? We can't have an honest talk with someone who doesn't WANT to have an honest talk, FFS. You have NO idea.

New worrier, your preaching is offensive, it is old fashioned nonsense and it mixes up the tensions of two flawed human individuals (which happen in 100% of every relationship) with the character and coping flaws of one individual. I just hope it NEVER happens to you, and you never find out how UNFAIR reality can be.

You're absolutely right there, wobby.

Sorry, I meant 'I find' your preaching offensive.

No matter what I did, or didn't do, or said or didn't say, I did not deserve to be lied to and betrayed and treated with disdain as my wifely self got compared to the glamourous well dressed professional colleague OW. My bills, kids and leaking roof (reality) couldn't possibly compare with her admiration and charming act (fantasy). My children did not deserve to have their innocence taken away and to become aware of sexual stuff they should have to think about. They didn't deserve to have their sense of safety taken away from them.

Because, when it all got found out and his life fell about his ears, why did OW mean nothing and troll wife suddenly become wanted again? After all, I never changed.

None of it makes sense, it is all unfair and for you to even begin to imply that I somehow 'caused' or 'deserved' it, is very upsetting.

If you are unhappy about something, you open your mouth. Then you write a letter. Then you contact a counsellor. All ACTIONS of people with INTEGRITY. You don't get involved with a stranger you don't even know for a feelgood trip without any concern for anyone else. Do you get this, that there is a difference?

Hi again and thanks for the posts asking how I am. I'm still where I was, reading and digesting all these different thoughts, but I am moving towards a point where I am ready to confront him in the next couple of days I think.

I followed ImperialBlether's advice and rang the bar from last week pretending to be an HR person checking an expense claim - all seems quite legit as 'waits 2' means 'waitress no.2' so nothing particularly dodgy there.

Anyway, the rest of it is still going on but with a small change - the blackberry is now sometimes being left overnight on the chest of drawers rather than in his bag, but it is the last thing he takes out of his pocket before going to bed and has spent the evening quietly hidden from view. It also came with us yesterday when we had a day off together, and was produced in front of me at one point for him to check emails. Would be pretty brass-necked if he was then communicating with anyone he shouldn't, so maybe this whole thing is a misconception by me, but the previous behaviour makes me think there is still a case to answer. And in that case using it in front of me could also be a sign that he is becoming a little more careless.

I don't think I have it in me to snoop using bugging devices or even an app on my phone. I think I have to tackle it head on and imply that I know more than I do, ask to see the BB, and take it from there. I believe that I can forgive infidelity if it is admitted, finished and dealt with honestly but it will depend what I hear. He was someone I idolised really and I am not keen to throw it away, especially for the sake of the children to whom he is a magnificent dad.

Thanks for continued support and help on this. I will keep you posted.