Think my DH is sleeping with someone but can't prove it - WWYD?

[Brassica]

This is long, sorry. My DH and I have been married for 6 years and have 18 month old twins. He has previously been a completely exemplary husband - so loving, thoughtful, attentive, reassuring, fun-loving, cuddly, open, kind... Yet recently I have found myself more and more sure that he is cheating because there is stuff I just can't explain any other way, and most of it revolves around the use of his work Blackberry.

1. Firstly, he is quite distant. Gone are the spontaneous hugs, hand holds, kisses, 'love you's, etc and that was the first thing I noticed. I put it down to being so rushed with the twins that opportunities to do it are lost. We have averaged sex about once a month since they came along - I have not been initiating it really because of tiredness/slight hang ups over my body but he has not seemed bothered at all - has never seemed discontent about it.
2. He disappears upstairs on his own every evening (at least once, sometimes several times) and is not checking on the twins. Gone for 5-15 minutes each time. No mention when he comes down that he's been doing anything. Each time it is when I am safely occupied with something - washing up, watching something on TV. Yesterday I quietly came upstairs to see if I could hear what he was doing but couldn't - all I could tell was he was in our room with the lights off and when I asked 'what were you doing in there?!' he just said 'nothing' and stepped into the twins' room to check on them.
3. He keeps his Blackberry on his person at all times - which he has never done before. In the past if he's needed to look at work emails etc then it has been done openly and explaining that he's promised to deal with something.
4. Keeping his Blackberry on him is done secretly - I only know because I check his bag periodically at times when it should be there and it's not, but then a bit later it quietly reappears.
5. The reason why I have started checking where it is is that the other week he came in very late after a work night out, and although he woke me up I think he thought I'd dozed off again. He stood with his back to the bed tapping away on a device - I thought he must be checking cricket scores on his phone or something, but then at the end he dropped the device into his bag and it was therefore his Blackberry. At 1.30am and while drunk/tired is anyone checking work emails?
6. I can't remember when it started but for a while now (weeks? months?) he has engineered a reason to leave the house without me on days when we are there together - volunteering to take the twins for a walk "so I can have a break" or going to the supermarket, or on Sunday going into town to see the end of the women's road race. On Sunday he took his camera with him and in the bag was his Blackberry (I had a very swift look)...
7. It was my birthday the other week - a 'special' one - and although he ticked all the boxes pretty much like taking me out for lunch, it didn't feel like a special one from his end. He didn't say happy birthday for about the first 5 minutes we were awake, he didn't remember to get me a present or card from the twins, he didn't 'make a fuss of me'. I had a party with lots of friends and family and I think the old DH would have said a few words but he didn't.

So it's just unsubstantiated hunches but I am struggling to see why he would be doing this stuff apart from to allow him to contact someone else either by phone or text/email without me knowing. The twins must serve as a great distraction because he knows when I am dealing with them I can't do much else.

I tried to broach the subject the other day but only got as far as addressing the distant attitude, which he has apparently tried to put right the last few days, so there have been more kisses and a bit more attentiveness, but he didn't even react when I mentioned about our sex life being too sporadic. I felt as though I couldn't challenge him on the Blackberry use because I don't have a shred of evidence.

So what would you do? I don't have a clue what the password is for his Blackberry so I can't take a look at it (on the rare occasion it's not on his person). If I bring up my suspicions then he's just going to deny it, isn't he? He'll find reasons to explain it and cast doubt on my gut feeling. I find it unbelievable that he, of all people, could cheat, but then I find the way he's behaving even more unbelievable at the moment.

I think the doctor was right not to give you antidepressants. in my case I felt almost out of control mentally for a couple of weeks but it did pass and I really felt I needed to feel the emotions to get through it rather than have it suppressed and have to deal with it later. lack of sleep though is a killer and I hope the sleeping tablets help you.
Take care of yourself and those babies, don't feel guilty if you're a bit more tetchy with them, they will always be your support and inspiration to keep going.

If you have anyone nearby who can help with the children, now is the time to ask.

Parents or friends who can take them or even your H - make him take them for a few hours or come to the house to look after them while you go out.

You also need to be good to yourself now so don't worry about a few ready meals for the DC.

I definitely think you should tell the OW's husband - he deserves to know & or also means the affair is out in the open & your H & OW can't escape into fantasyland and take the whole thing underground.

Take care of yourself & keep posting when you need to.

Brassica do you not have a niece/nephew or friends daughter/son that could come and give you a hand for a few days with DC. Even just being able to go for a walk for an hour to help clear your head and give you a change of scenery.
If not then get H to take them out for a few hours, he's still their father and has responsibilities to them even though he is a bastard
Or could you do what Beryl said above about taking the twins to GP, if they get the OK then take them back to Nursery.

If you're still really feeling like you need help regarding the ADs then go back to the GP, only you know how you're feeling. I'm not a big fan of sleeping pills, especially not when you have young DC around. For me personally if I don't get a minimum of 8 hours sleep with a sleeping pill then I feel like utter shite the next day and I find it difficult to function normally, kind of like a hangover but with a more fuzzy head. Maybe it's just me who feels like this but just wanted to share with you. Of course, the benefits outweigh that if you're not sleeping at all.

Don't be too hard on yourself, of course you're going to be a bit short and less patient. You're whole world has just been shook. Just try and get through one day at a time and try to take care of yourself too. xxx

I'm so glad you went to the doctor. Reaching out for help and support when you need it most is a good thing. Have you booked an STI test? It's a horrible thing to think about but if he's been sleeping around it's absolutely the best thing to do.

Are there any family members/friends who could lhelp out with childcare? Don't worry about not wanting to put on people, you'd be surprised by how many people are happy and willing to help you out if you ask. Personally I don't like kids but if one of my friends needed me I'd be round like a shot to take care of the kiddies and help mum or dad out.

So sorry brassica

Fwiw I think ow's dp needs to know too - you ought to give her a deadline that she tells her dp, and if she doesn't, then you will.

Stay strong x

I'm inclined to disagree about telling the OW's DH.

The op has enough to worry about her own marriage without worrying about others.

What would be the purpose? To punish the OW? To punish the OP's H? What if the OW's DH arrives at the house like a raging bull?

I think the op has been very dignified. I'm not sure what good she would achieve, for herself, by telling OW's DH.

I would tell the ows dh. It might not serve a massive purpose, it might be more dignified to say nothing, but i just couldn't do it.

Id want it out in the open and i would want my dh to feel the full consequences of what he had done.

I wouldn't tell him. It's not your job to tell him and there might be consequences that will impact on you. I didn't tell OW's DH because he was a controlling horrible man and much as it might have felt good to tell him I really didn't want to hear she's been hurt by him or find him on the doorstep ready to give DH a good kicking.

I didn't tell many other people either. Wish I had now - I have read on quite a few advice sites that telling others takes away the exciting element of glamorous secrecy to any affair and goes some way to making it seem the sordid little effort it really is

Oh and as a big element of the affair was the damsel in distress syndrome I suspected that I'd have done myself no favours by hurting her.

I'm not going to do anything about the OW or her partner - besides, I don't know him, know their address, or anything else. I really don't care what happens in their marriage but since they do have young children hopefully she as well as my husband has had enough of a wake up call to start focusing again on what she already has. If it wouldn't add to the good of the situation then what is the point in doing it? I know some people feel better with an opportunity for revenge but I don't, just my opinion.

Feeling a bit better today. The twins were as good as gold yesterday, which was much needed.

They are back to nursery today and nursery have been told I am 'run down' and having a couple of weeks off work - I hope this will encourage them to hold back from phoning if the merest speck of gloop appeared in either of my children's eyes, which has been their approach until now. I plan to do lots of lounging around, wash my hair and take lots of time over it, book a massage or something - all that stuff that is impossible with little ones.

Sleeping pills don't seem to be needed, by the way. I have slept like a log the last few nights - I think I could fall asleep standing up if required; thanks to having gone through life with newborn twins, I am well trained.

As for husband, he is very remorseful and doing a lot more to help me, I think the penny has dropped that I had/have a huge burden on my shoulders. I feel I definitely want to make it work as underneath it all I know I still love him a lot, but he does not know that and I am refusing to answer questions about where we go from here. He has been an idiot and is not yet seeing all the wrongness of what he did, although he thinks he is. We will be doing a lot of talking and he will carry on in the spare room. Hysterical bonding doesn't seem much of a likelihood right now. I will tell him we both need STI testing if any sexual contact occurred and flush out exactly what happened. It is very hard to tell from the emails I've read, on second look, whether they did anything together.

Beryl you're right, I'm not sure if the nursery is sustainable long term. I had assumed that summer would be time off from illnesses but it has not been - what will winter be like? I seem to need everything to go like clockwork for all the plates to keep spinning, and when one thing goes down then the stress builds and I can't do job or childcare to the standard needed. We will have a conversation about how we divide the responsibility for handling them on days like that, because it has been about 95:5 in terms of split until now. I have been resentful of that because I have a pressured job too, but his involves working for external clients who pay for his services (mine is an internal-facing role) so I guess we both regard his work as harder to pick up/put down than mine.

But I looked into what a nanny would cost and it looks like about another £1k per month on top of what already feels like extortion! Besides, I really want them to go to nursery because it really benefits them to mix with others and play/learn in a different environment. A decision to think about later, not this week.

Good luck brassica. Just be warned that you have just got on a rollercoaster if my situation is anything to go by! Don't be surprised if your emotions twist and turn like crazy.

I would have too tell the OW DP. If anything just to make sure it won't happen again? No matter how much he is grovelling, he obviously cannot be trusted and please keep your guard up because his actions speak far louder than his words.

Xx

Great news that you've got some time off. Reaching out for help is what you have to do now.

The rule is: Brassica comes first - your needs, your recovery, your happiness.

I wish I could tell you it was a quick and easy journey, but you are intelligent enough to know that won't be the case.

I would just assume it was sexual (sorry). Ask him if you like, but I'd be very surprised if you'll get the truth now though, they've had plenty of time to delete all evidence and match up their stories.

Personally I would (and did) contact the OW (she was also a colleague and married), but only to let her know that I knew, and that if I had even the whiff of it continuing would let her DH know too. It will be very, very easy for them to continue the relationship (and sadly this often happens) and they will be much cleverer about hiding tracks. I appreciate that contacting the OW is probably the last thing you want to do though - but it isn't always about revenge. People learn from the consequences of their actions.

Anyway, I hope your DH turns it around for you and your children - good people do make mistakes - but you'll know by his actions long term, not short term the sort of person he really is and if he's really sorry.

Enjoy your massage. How about a weekend away somewhere nice with a good friend? Your DH can have the twins.

If there was no sex between them he would have told you by now as by way of his defence. I think you should assume it has unless proven otherwise. Don't ask him if it has because that just gives him the opportunity to lie because it lets him know that you don't know for sure that he has.

As for the spare room . . . I would seriously make him move out! He really, really needs to feel the full force of what he has done and how close he is to losing you. If he doesn't feel that now what's to stop him doing it again? He needs to be shocked. The spare room? After what he has done? That's nothing!

You sound a bit stronger today.

One thing I would do during your time off is to read Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends - it comes highly recommended on here. A good book for your H to read is Linda MacDonald's How to Help your Spouse Heal.

So you are working FT with a pressurised job, have given birth to twins who are only 18 months old, you bear the responsibility of sorting childcare when it breaks down, and I'm going on a limb and assuming you do the majority of household chores.

And your DH gets to throw his toys out of the pram and have a 'fantasy' affair to get away from the pressures of having young children.

Good grief.

Poor you, you really need to take care of yourself, and reset the unbalance that there is. I can understand you not throwing H out - that will just leave you struggling with even more of the responsibility of childcare.

Brassica, are you sure about the nanny/housekeeper costs? Where are you in the UK?

I had a nanny for some years with under 4's and it did work out cheaper.

(and nurseries can refuse to take kids at the drop of a hat, and do).

The nanny can also take them to mix lots with other kids.

At a later point I have lots of ideas about how to reduce the cost so pm me if you ever need to.

Look for a good childminder, maybe? I wish I'd done that for my twins when they were small instead of nanny (the tax and NI on top were a shock) and nursery. Did it with my 3rd and found it cheaper, more flexible and a lovely home environment with other kids too. And you can pay them in childcare vouchers. Ask around and get on a few waiting lists, and then you can always decide later. Meanwhile, enjoy your pampering and make sure DH understands exactly what he stands to lose.

Hi Brassica, if you read my earlier post asking H to leave for a while can be the kindest thing you can do for your marriage as HE is the one who needs the shock awakening and to really fight for his marriage - absence from all he's taken for granted teaches him to value it. My SIL and dcs cleared off abroad on holiday for two weeks and my brother in that time came to his senses. Do not make it easy for him - it needs to be hard won.

Your H needs to be thinking what do I need to do to make Brassica trust me again? What can I do to earn her respect? For instance does he still plan on working with the OW?

I also concur with not telling the OP's H. Keeping the moral highground/being true to yourself is important...it also makes for a fantastic blackmail tool later if needed

Hi Brassica, so sorry that we were right and newworrier cybbo etc were wrong. I would rather it were the other way round.

Where is H now? There is a very good book or an essay which delivers a real punch to the betrayer: they are both by Linda J Macdonald.

1. How to help your spouse recover from an affair

2 [pdf download] What will you become?. This can be found on her webside lindajmacdonald.com and costs about $12.

I would recommend these first before anything else, whilst he is still in shock and it is dawning on him that he has seriously destroyed his life as he knows it.

Beryl is right that kicking him out would add to my stress levels, as it would leave me doing all childcare solo. With them being pretty young there is so much to do for them, I need more rest than that. It would also make it more difficult for us to have the conversations that we need to have - he needs to be here to answer questions as and when they arise, and all that has to be fitted in around whatever the twins need.

I don't have a support network who can drop everything to come and help. Parents are a fair way away and have health issues. Friends pretty much all have children of their own and most have jobs so it's not at all easy for them to take on two extra. So really it needs to be me and OH who keep going with the childcare duties, albeit that nursery can now (thankfully) have them during the daytime again.

Madabouthotchoc I have downloaded the Shirley Glass book for my kindle, thanks. It looks as though it deals with exactly this sort of problem and not too 'American' about it.

Got a couple of good friends coming round on Monday to listen and debrief after whatever comes out over the weekend. Steeling myself for a lot of long conversations and some difficult emotions.

Maybe post in the childcare section here and ask what nannying costs might be? I don't know how large your house is (and right now it will be the last thing you want, anyway) but I think a live-in nanny can be cheaper, because you are housing them. And I seem to remember a thread where nannies said that caring for twins is actually really sought after because it looks so amazing on their CVs.

The other option might be a really good childminder? A friend is one and if she didn't live 200 miles away I'd never look elsewhere! She's always taking her mindees and her own off to wildlife centres, toddler groups, zoos, what have you, it makes me feel such a bad mum by comparison! And I think they tend to be a lot more flexible than nurseries, plus better really according to the research in terms of emotional development. Kids don't really do more than parallel play with one another until 3, anyway, so I hear, it's after that they seriously need their contemporaries for company. I do think a good childminder would be a lot more flexible/reliable, and again, it may be that the twins aspect would be desirable in terms of what experience they can claim afterwards?

I do think posting in childcare and asking nannies and childminders for advice might be really helpful. After all, if your childcare is 100% reliable then your work prospects improve, too. It's such a short time you will need this level of care, in the general scheme of things, but your career lasts all your life. A grand is obviously unmanageable, but if you can maybe find that level of care for a bit less of a jump, might be worth considering?

Sorry to be so practical. I am so, so sorry that your suspicions were right. I've seen a lot of these threads on MN, sadly, and the woman is always right in every one I have seen. Instincts are powerful things. I haven't posted before because I didn't feel I had anything to offer, but I have been wishing you all good things. It is so wrong that you have had more to cope with and less support with young twins. It is the precise time when he should have been right there pulling along with you - he can't have had it 1/10 as tough as you have.

Just to second the childminder route. I had the world's best childminder (she's retired now, sorry). She was never sick, never late, took the kids to all sorts of activities, read to them, fed them patiently. They loved her (and we still talk about her fondly).

I think sometimes people think nannies are the only way - but a childminder with years of experience and natural empathy can be a fantastic option.

My friend was a very, very successful nanny until she married and had her own kids, after which she became a childminder. She simply wants to combine the roles now. She says it's a bit hard on her kids as any decent childminder will prioritise the mindees from the determination not to favour their own! And a CM is usually pretty cheap, too.

A good CM usually loves the kids after a while, rather like a close aunt would, too. Which is a real benefit. And often they can carry on caring before and after school once that starts, which is obviously a lovely smooth transition.

I don't know where you live, but if it's outer West London I can def. recommend her! Honestly, I live in Cheltenham and I would always rather use a CM with very young kids if a nanny is unaffordable. It's homebased care, and a good toddler group leader is a fine place to start asking, as they see how the CMs are when the mothers aren't (plus know which CMs take their charges to the toddler groups, too).

How are you feeling today, Brassica? Hope things are okay, under the circs.