Would you travel round the world to surprise someone?

[Shinyshinyface]

Um...after they'd said not to come?

I'll try and sum this up briefly...I'm divorced 3 years, got 3 teenagers...met a lovely man online who lives in the US, we hit it off fabulously from the first moment and I went to visit him not long after, all was wonderful EXCEPT that we both knew there was no real future for us as a couple as neither one of us was in a position to completely uproot our life for the other. All very good and sensible except I fell completely and utterly in love and I'm pretty sure he feels close to the same. We talk twice a day, every single day.

My kids are off to the US for 2 weeks in August and I had said to this guy that I could come and stay again because it was a really rare opportunity for me...he said no because we had already been through the pain of meeting and having to separate again and really didn't want the pain of going through that again. I understood his point but just felt that having those 2 weeks was better than nothing at all and we'd just have to pick ourselves up again like we did after the last visit. He had steadfastly said no despite my subsequent attempts to change his mind. The 2 weeks are looming and I was to see him so badly...I'm contemplating just turning up.

I know it sounds really stupid and reckless and possibly more than a bit selfish. I'm not sure what his reaction would be but I suspect after some initial shock/anger he would be happy to see me. I'm scared at the audacity involved but I'm a person strongly ruled by my heart...

Your thoughts please?

I don't think I am an ultimatums type either which is why I'd probably prefer taking control by just turning up knowing I might be humiliated but just to see what would happen

I mean I think he is having no problem asserting his needs in the relationship even though he is not communicating in a clear way and some of those needs are bulldozing you a bit, I'm not sure you turning up would be any different than that.

tiger that is a weird story alright! I'm grateful to you for sharing your experiences, it's really useful to hear what other people have been through.

I think what started this particular wild plan was that I was talking to a Spanish friend the other day who's been married to an English guy for over 20 years. She said at some early stage when she lived in Spain she had booked a ticket to visit and he told her not to come because he was having commitment issues...she said sod it and went anyway and they had a lovely time. She wasn't encouraging me to turn up on his doorstep but she did think I should go. So that started me thinking that maybe it wasn't the most bonkers plan in the world (it is though). Offred what you're describing as taking control, others on this thread have called embarrassing neediness. It's probably a bit of both. I might have actually done it though, if I hadn't posted this thread. I talked to three friends in RL to get their opinion. One said go, one said go if you must be be wary of it going horrible wrong and one (my sister) said don't go, talk to him. After that I was still thinking about it and then decided to come to MN for a reality check

If he has said no on this occasion and there really is no future then be kind to yourself and end the relationship that you do have now as it is going no where. Whislt your kids are away maybe go away somewhere else and do something/go somewhere you really want to go and start living your life. Life is jsut too short.

Thanks Saggy, I'm not sure if I can go through with ending it but we're going to talk tomorrow and that may well be one outcome.

I do think there is sometimes a problem culturally with the way people are meant to conduct relationships i.e. all the letting people down gently, game playing, seeming aloof etc I don't think it is embarrassingly needy to have needs (reasonable ones) and to have a go at getting them fulfilled. Someone who just won't be honest with you in words and actions tends to whip you up and make you look a bit crazy but I think you are a long way off that here.

If he's said he doesn't want to be in an LDR then there is no way to make him be in one. Save yourself some face and walk away: Tell him you need time x (at least one month) without contact to recover from the ending of the relationship on your half. If he fights this, you can ask him if he is willing to be in an LDR. If not then at least you now know where you stand and have some space to recover.

Note that if he fights the contact break and doesn't want an LDR this man is not your friend. Friends are people who have your best interests at heart and can manage some space from each other. If he's neither your friend nor someone who wants an LDR then he's just a man you have spoken to for a while and its time to move on.

I've been in this situation before where I liked the person and wanted to see where it ended up but they had decided they didn't want to be with someone who had children but did a load of "I love you but.." and messing around out of the blue. I am always absolutely honest but he used to treat me in a "women never really say what they mean" and then never said what he meant - he thought that women need to be carefully managed by their men. Anyway because he was like that it did drive me quite a lot crazy but it wasn't to do with being needy. I just wanted a fairly casual relationship, he was not actually meeting my needs and being irritating!

My friend was having a similar relationship with a man she walked her dog with, would see him every day and he would say he wanted it to go further but that it couldn't because of my X, Y, Z. Turned out he was married.

My friend didn't stop seeing him and nothing physical happened but she began to rely on him emotionally. One day a switched flipped in her and she just told him she needed space and she hasn't rung him and he hasn't been in touch with her. She is now fine but she couldn't end it in a final way but found by saying she needed space she had not cut the relationship dead but as time went on she knew it was over. M

I think you need him to ask a simple question honestly - does he ever want to meet again? Based on the answer:

Yes - then ask him when and why not during these two weeks

No - then you have to cut contact otherwise you will be always hoping he'll change his mind, anxiously waiting for every text in case he's had a change of heart. You can't settle for a text/Skype relationship as it's stopping you moving on. If you could just enjoy it for a bit of light-hearted fun, then that would be different.

I've been through similar and the only way to do it was cold turkey on the no contact. It was very difficult but surprisingly only for the first couple of days.

I know he'll say to the seeing each other again...just because he can't see a way to make it happen. One of his reasons against me going there in August is that we would be going in much deeper into a relationship and due to his work, study commitments and financial situation he couldn't see being able to come here for a visit for at least a year. And I would have funded two visits there and really there's no way I could manage to fund a third any time soon.

I haven't asked him whether we could then wait it out and see if thing can stand the test of time...maybe with a visit next year and then who knows? But I know that's not what he wants either. And I'm so unhappy with things as they are, I don't think I could last that long.

Lots of people have said to me, oh he's just waiting for it to fizzle out and after my visit I think we both wondered if that would happen. But it hasn't and that's what prompted me to ask him again about the August visit although he's said no initially.

And yes Numberlock I am constantly waiting for him to change his mind, even though I really really know he's not going to!

I've tried stepping back and I've tried weaning myself off him and I've tried being really casual and none of those things have worked for me. The only way this is going to end is if we decide to end it, individually or together.

I'm not convinced by that as the truth because if it were the truth it would be cutting you nose off to spite your face.

Not convinced by what Offred?

Well it is essentially "oh I love you do much and so I can't risk seeing you because I have to work"

And the money thing is irrelevant if one person had time and money to see the other and wants to then they shouldnt be prevented from doing it. I think it means he views the relationship as short term because he isnt considering it evening out over time and isn't considering making any effort himself.

Sorry to be blunt but it seems you're torturing yourself unnecessarily and missing out on other opportunities by putting your life on hold.

I admire your honesty in admitting that you're hoping he will change his mind but by doing this you're giving him all the power.

And I think you're overly hung up on this two weeks that's coming up. Let that go, he's made it clear he doesn't want you to come. Make other plans, if it's going to work out you would find another time to see each other.

Oh okay I see what you mean.

In the end though, whatever he's saying it boils down to the same thing...he isn't offering me anything in terms of a relationship and is saying not to come for whatever the reason is. I agree, what he says and what he does do not match up. No one is forcing me to go on talking to him, I do it because I want to and I'm aware that it's up to me to deal with the consequences of that. It could very well be that he sees it as short time and is waiting for a natural ending point that's easier on both of us. I think he probably feels that if he broke things off, given how he knows I feel about him, that I would be devastated. He's right, I would, but I know that anyone would argue that he's doing a different kind of damage to me by not ending it. And that would be true too.

Sorry Numberlock, missed your post. Yep, giving him the power is right, I have thought about that a lot. I know I need to let the 2 weeks go and I did think I was managing it, it's just something will happen that sets me off again. Idiotic, I know. I really have let go of it now though.

I used to think that the only way to leave someone was if we BOTH agreed it, decided on it etc. That's simply not true. You can walk away now, you don't need a nice cosy chat with him about it first and for him to give his 'blessing'. You simply have to realise that this is hurting you too much to make it worth your while. Love yourself enough, basically.

I imagine if that time doesn't come now, it will come when you discover he is dating someone locally, and you'll either find that out in person cos you went there, or because you asked him and he admitted it. I doubt he'd volunteer the information himself unprompted though. Why would he?

And really, people in love just don't talk like this: "due to his work, study commitments and financial situation he couldn't see being able to come here for a visit for at least a year". They simply, don't. I'm sorry :( I don't think he's as bothered as he says he is. It's all about the actions. Ignore everything but actions. I speak from very bitter experience!

I mean it could be the rules thing I mentioned earlier and that a nudge would benefit you both. I really think he is doing you no favours by not communicating how he actually feels and perhaps what would help the most is just actually asking him outright to explain and saying if he doesn't want what you do then he needs to actually tell you and then you need to accept it if he says he doesn't want you and stop contact so you can move on.

Gentle I don't think he's done anything to justify me just cutting contact like that. I couldn't do that to him. I think it would be unnecessarily cruel. We need to talk it through, hard as that might be.

It won't be easy though. As communicative as he normally is and as clear as his ideas about us are, when I have broached the subject of what we're going to do ie how are we going to end this, he'll just go really quiet and say he doesn't know and doesn't want to think about it. Somehow I have to get past that.

You need to say to him his behaviour doesn't match his words and ask which is the truth I think.

Mine used to go quiet and do the 'I don't know' thing as well. It was just an avoidant tactic. The thing is, you cannot expect him to man up and do the right thing; you have to set your own boundaries because he won't ever do that for you. He'll be happy to coast in the current situation forever, so you have to ask yourself, are you happy to coast forever like this as well? Really?

I'm not suggesting cutting contact without explaining why, just saying that contact is not beneficial for YOU in the long run. You need to move on and you can't do that while he is in your life in this way. Interesting that when I suggest cutting contact, you are all 'Oh no, I couldn't do that to him'. What about you?

I felt the same about mine. I really don't think I could ever have done it to him. I thought it would destroy him. In the end, after a petty argument, he did it to me. No warning, no explanation, changed all his numbers, everything. It was the worst thing anyone has ever done to me. I couldn't believe it. He had swore blind he would never stop knowing me and would always be there for me; this was when we were being friends in September after last seeing each other in January. I had moved on romantically and was dating someone else. I think he couldn't hack that and/or had met someone else. He turned so cold on me, it was crushing.
I still can't believe he suddenly saw fit to do it after I prized his happiness very much higher than my own. But the point is, don't try and think about what is best for him. He won't be doing the same for you, so then you have two people both thinking about his happiness and no-one thinking about your happiness. And that's not good at all, is it? :)
Take care. x

Gentle that's so sad to hear, I'm sorry that happened to you
Yeah you're totally right. need to think about my happiness. Turning up over there would have been an assertion of it. I'm not going to do that though. Don't know what I'm going to do but I need to do something.

Have read through the whole of your thread Shiny.

And don't worry, no judgement from me. I have made a million fools of myself over blokes in my lifetime, we all make mistakes, we're all just doing the best we can.

I wonder if all the people using terms such as 'embarrassing', 'needy', 'desperate' e.t.c. have spent their whole lives as cool as cucumbers, endlessly doing the right thing no matter how difficult it was. Perhaps they have never ever wanted someone who did not want them. Lucky them.

Here's the thing though (and I realise how easy it is for me to say this as I am removed from the situation), if he wanted to see you, he would. Full stop. If he wanted a relationship with you he would be having one. I don't know why he doesn't leave you be if he doesn't want you, but he clearly doesn't, because if he did, he would be making it happen.

I'm so sorry OP. It's painful, I know. But I bet you anything that once you let this situation go, you'll start to feel better sooner than you imagine.