After infidelity - those who are still with their partners

[Looksgoodingravy]

We are working through it, it's been four months, we have better days than bad, I know things will never be the same again and there are chinks of normality coming back into our lives again, I'm hoping we will be stronger than before, it will be different. I know my dp is deeply deeply sorry for the hurt he's caused, he's working hard to build those bridges.

My question I suppose is have you forgiven your partner? I know I'll never forget but I know I've got to forgive so that I can move on, I know I will forgive when I feel ready to but is it a necessary step to take...I'm just letting some sad feelings out tonight, I feel sad for the 17 years we had before I found out, seems a lovely carefree time now not one wrapped in pain and hurt.. time to move on and bring the good bits back into my life.

It is a real head fuck realising that the past couple of years were a farce isn't it?

I told my OW's husband and have no regrets at all about telling him.

I am sure you will do it kindly and gently and if you could provide evidence or suggest how he could find this it may help.

Madabout oh god yes, so glad someone else understands. D?H couldn't understand why I started crying when he started looking through photos on laptop one day last week. There were photos of us happy, well I thought we were happy, on holiday and with kids and smiling and laughing. Yet, during a lot of the time, he was having a relationship with someone else. For fear of sounding like a teenager, 'I don't get it'.

I just feel so strongly that the OW H's needs to know. I have very strong views about marriage and told DH last night that even though we are trying to make things work and re-build our relationship, I don't think I want to be married to him anymore. He didn't seem to 'get' this. I said I'm thinking of divorcing him on the basis of his adultery but said we might still be able to have some form of relationship. He looked completely stunned by this and said he wanted to be married to me! Yeah right, should have thought about that before his dick 'fell in' her cunt! Sorry, sounds awful but I'm so angry. He said that if I divorced him he'd have to leave (I 'foolishly' let him back 2 weeks ago) and I said well that was his choice, I have to do what is right for me and I just don't want to be married to him anymore, he broke our vows and they can't be fixed.

Am going out for a few hours with DC now and think when I get back I will send him a message and tell him.

Thanks for listening, it helps

MOSagain, I am so sorry that this is happening to you. It is an awful feeling to have, that while you were doing normal, everyday things and thinking your relationship was fine, all this was going on in the background.

In answer to your question about telling the husband of the OW, yes, I would do it in a heartbeat, if I had the contact details of the partner. I think he does have a right to know what is happening in his own marriage - I would hate to be the last to know. Also she is seriously taking the piss out of him, if she is making jokes and comments on fb and twitter - the poor sod should be given a heads up.

And from a purely selfish pov, why should this OW be allowed to stamp through your life and suffer no consequences - I have already said upthread that I want to cause her all the pain and upheaval in her life that has been caused in mine.

"I feel very strongly that whilst mine and DH's lives/marriage are in pieces, she has got away with it" Yes. I know how you feel. But in my case the OW's husband is very controlling, abusive man so it would be utterly irresponsible for me to tell him. Satisfying as it might be for me personally.

Orm, I would have done it anyway. Fuck her. She wasn't thinking of your wellbeing when she was doing what she did with your husband. You owe her the same level of consideration - jack shit.

I must be a very vengeful person, because if the partner of the woman my dh was contacting, was abusive to her on account of what she did with my husband, I wouldn't actually care.

If there was a husband to contact in my case, I wouldn't hesitate. I agree entirely with shorter, she didn't put a 2nd thought to your well being, so why should you to her? She has obviously had a lot of satisfaction at your expense.

I don't want any revenge as such in my case, it won't solve anything, my dh however knows I could push her off her career ladder and probably destroy his!

Unless you've seen this man being abusive and controlling yourself Orm, I'd be a bit sceptical about whether the OW's husband is as bad as described, but of course if he is then there are your own interests to take into consideration too - for example an angry showdown at your house in front of your unknowing children.

Otherwise, in general I support the idea that all involved parties are in possession of all the information they need to make decisions about their lives.
However, I always recommend that this is done in a more personal way than a written message. If a face-to-face meeting is not possible, a phone call is much better. I always ask people how they would feel if they got a message like that and were unable to ask the million questions it would generate. From a different perspective, a message or letter is easily denied or attributed to someone with a grudge to bear - perhaps regular MN users won't be surprised, but I'm often struck by how people believe what they want to believe and are prepared to suspend their normal scepticism if information is going to blow their world apart. So personal contact is kinder to the recipient all round - and you stand far more chance of being believed too.

Regarding the 'living a lie' while the affairs were ongoing, I've heard lots of people say this and have heard their partners' responses to it. It always amazes and angers the faithful partner when their spouses insist that from their point of view, those happy times were not a lie and they wouldn't have wanted to have been anywhere else. It's almost impossible at this stage to gets to grips with that level of compartmentalisation in your partners, but I am in no doubt that they are hearing the truth, bizarre as it sounds.

Sometimes the unfaithful party will speak of the guilt at those times and the pangs they felt when they saw their spouse laughing and appearing to be happy and carefree. Some have said that they felt like frauds at those points, knowing that the happiness, love and attention they were experiencing would not have been available if their partners had known the truth - and some have admitted that they used their partners' happiness as evidence that the affair was having no effect on the marriage and so it was used as a justification for the affair to continue. Generally it is only the people who wanted their marriages to end who say that those happy times were a 'lie' so although I understand why some of you feel that way, do ask the question and don't instantly disbelieve the response if there is a denial.

"but of course if he is then there are your own interests to take into consideration too - for example an angry showdown at your house in front of your unknowing children." Yes. That has occurred to me too. It may be a lie but I don't care enough about him to take that risk.

Fair enough. Important, I think, for you to do what you want, at this point.

Having read your other thread, I was a bit worried that your husband was somehow forcing you to be considerate of OW's safety/feelings at the expense of your own feelings. Just because he cared for her, it doesn't mean that you have to take account of that in your own actions or be influenced by what your husband wants wrt her.

If i am way off mark, then I apologise.

Something I struggle with atm is my h?s frustration about the trust issue, now that we are 8 months in. For example, last week he was away for work and called me at 9, and said during the conversation that he ws planning an early night. I needed to call him again half an hour later to relay something a DC had said, and he didn?t answer either his mobile or hotel room phone. I sent a caustic text, and it displeased him. At the weekend, he didn?t want to have sex (again), saying that intimacy was beginning to be an issue in everyday life (and led to a disinterest in sex), and he gave that as the example.
I was really pissed off, tbh, and felt that he was a bit of a prick to be surprised that I may not think the best of him when he didn?t answer the phone (he says he had not heard the hotel room phone at all, and that his mobile was off and charging). As it turned out he called me half an hour later, and was in his room, but all the same, what did he expect?
After the initial months of hysterical bonding, comes the real hard work, and at a time when feelings are running less high, I feel. I am definitely struggling to get my h to accept in practice, as he does in theory, that trust has to be rebuilt, and that issues like this will challenge my trust levels, regardless of his innocence.

We have similar issues, fiventhree.

I know he gets frustrated that I'm still not fully back on board, even though he has made steps to reassure me that he is mortified and sorry.

But he's trashed our wedding vows and put our family at risk.

I think I do trust that he won't have another emotional affair, but he doesn't fully understand that the damage he already done means that he's stomped all over the trust I had for him, and that in itself is enough for me to question if I am strong enough (or even want to) put in the work that is necessary for me to look at him without seeing a devious, lying weasel.

Things are not too bad when he is at home, as he's pretty much the man I thought I knew. When he's away is when I dwell, and think of the emails and texts I've seen, and then I'm faced with the reality of what that man did to me - the man who had always seemed to be devoted and loving. It's like he was a different person.

I should imagine that some relationships that stay together after the intial shock then subsequently disintegrate because the unfaithful partner runs out of patience with the person they have betrayed.

But this is all going to happen according to my time-scale, and so far it feels like it's going to be a marathon. If he can't handle seeing the effects of what he's done to me, he's going to have to go.

Moonery, my h didnt sleep with anyone else as far as I know (!) but he did have online sex chats- wait for it- with over 200 women covering a five and a half year period. Each time i found photos they sent him he denied it and gave me some old flannel about downloading music from torrent music sites and getting these chucked in by accident. Similar excuses over 5 plus years, during which time I found sive or 6 bts of similar evidence, but nothing to really pin it down eg emails or msn. He admitted it finally a month after we started relate, when I wouldnt back down and he thought I might leave him otherwise. Horribly, they were all young women met through the yahoo pool site (the ones with sexually suggestive names, he say, and mostly students, and from all over the world). He deleted his secret messenger account the day he told me, so I only have his word to go on.

I agree with you that it s my time-scale which counts now. I dont have time in my life any more for not being understood, or made to feel unreasonable or unduly suspicious.

Moonery - you describe how I'm feeling, when dp is with me things can almost appear normal again, when I'm alone everything comes creeping back like poison. I'm hoping in time this will ease. My counsellor stated that betrayer running out of patience and the betrayed unable to get past the hurt is the main reason why relationships fail after the lies.

Agree fiventhree that after the hysterical bonding comes the hard work, we're four months in and have gone past the hb stage, it's really hard work. Looking at a person who I thought I knew so well. It's only time which will be the deciding factor on whether we can work this out.

I get what you say totally Moonery.When DH and I were together doing the usual family stuff I could suspend my anger,sadness and general disillusionment for several hours at a time and almost feel 'normal' ie pre-discovery.
Then we would go our separate wys for work,out with friends etc. and I would feel so disconnected from him.He felt like a total stranger to me.Many times coming home I even delayed my return to the house.Stayed longer at my mums( she never knew what was going on) Called in for stuff at supermarket I didn't really need.Parked up and just listened to radio and had a little weep.Arranged social things to get out of the house much more than I would have.

Anything to get some space, and avoid the temptation to start asking the same questions,spoil another seemingly 'good' day by getting upset again.
I do have to say my DH knew what I was doing,bore it all very stoically,said it was all his fault and he understood.A couple of times we came extremely close to calling it a day because he felt I would never forgive him and we would have rather parted still caring and liking each other than endure years of surpressed resentment.Me for what he did, him for always having it thrown back in his face.
But we just couldn't do it.Seperate that is.
And to give you some hope the anger and resentment has gone.The sadness is just a very occasional twinge and I'm finally looking forward much more than looking back.But it has been almost two years for me.It was like a tsunami of emotions that knocked me off my feet and every time I felt it was finally over another bloody wave would come crashing in.

At five months I was pretty much like you.Injust wanted to know How long will I feel like this.? Is it worth hanging on?
It was ,I'm glad I did.And so is my DH and he proves that to me every day.And I no longer procrastinate when coming home to him.
I know that's not the case for everyone.Only you can work out what's best for YOU in the long run x

Star, your post has give me hope that this feeling will change at some point, so glad you posted that. I'm exactly the same with the delaying going home from work, so true. When we're apart it gives me time to think, it's awful.

I am so sorry you are here star, It is such a personnal relief to read a post like yours star. You have been there and your words struck me so deeply. As looks good in Gravey wrote, I spent Saturday And Sunday running the most ridiculous errands, just to avoid coming back to our home.

We all went for a walk yesterday, and the children wanted to climb over a wall, I wasn't dressed for climbing and am pathetic with heights. Dh held out his hand and offerred his, to help with my balance, he said onE little sentence, that has stayed with me since 'hold my hand, trust me'

I decided to not climb the wall and waited for the them to come back.

Devastated . That last sentence says it all, for you really.

Have any of you ladies thought about letting your dh's read this thread? I asked my dh to read it a couple of days ago. In the light of our promise to discuss what is on our minds and to be open and honest, I thought it would be helpful for us both if he saw, in black and white what I was feeling and from all your stories, discovered what the true impact is, of all this.

I also didn't like the thought of discussing him on here, behind his back (the irony of that is not lost on me, but I felt that I should behave as i would want him to behave towards me). It has helped, I think. This thread made very uncomfortable reading for us both, but it needed to be said and heard.

So long as dh keeps his promises to me, I think that he and I will be fine - there is still love and respect and an overwhelming desire to be together. I hope things work out well for all of you x

I could have written so many posts on here
I know its very early days for me at the moment but it is clear DH is getting pissed off/frustrated at my 'wobbly' moments. Today he went into work this morning and then came home at lunchtime to get changed to go a late pm meeting in London. Not long after he came home he had a call on his mobile. I panic/freeze when he gets a call or text now (she texted him last week and I'm certain she will get in touch again) He shook his head indicating it wasn't her and carried on with the call which was obviously a work one. I could hear that it was a woman and I really didn't like the tone he had with her, very jolly and almost flirty. They were talking about figures (she was an actuary) and twice I heard him say along the lines of "I'm sure your figures are better than mine'. I really hated the way he was speaking to her as considered it very flirtatious (bearing in mind allegedly he doesn't know her)

We ended up having a blazing row just before he went to get the train to London which was not ideal. He just doesn't 'get it'.. He has destroyed our vows/relationship/trust and its not going to get better overnight. Bearing in mind the whore he slept with was a woman he'd worked with years ago (who I now find out was very good friends with his ex-wife) is it suprising that I have trust issues when it comes to women he is 'working' with. I was also angry that she phoned him on his private mobile which I don't think she should have the numnber to and which he claims he can't remember giving her.

I'm quite pissed off as I'd typed a note which I wanted to send to her husband but the only way to contact him is via linked in and I can't seem to get it to go. I know vaguely where they live and I know with a little bit of work I can find an address to send it to but wanted to send it to him today and know he had got it. Probably sounds very selfish but I just feel I have to do it.

It is so helpful reading some of the comments here, realising that firstly, I'm not alone (although I'm so sorry so many of us are living this shite life) and also, more positively, some of you have pulled through.

I can so empathise re the feeling disconnected when I am not with DH - that feeling has faded though.

MOS - sometimes they don't realise that they need to change the way they behave with women if they are to gain your trust and respect. This was something we discussed in length when DH and I were looking at our boundaries and agreeing on what would be acceptable or not. Giving away personal numbers to female colleagues/work associates is not on and the flirting with women at work actually sounds creepy and that comment re figures is so unprofessional.

I think you both need to explore why he feels the need to solicit attention and approval from other women and why he feels its ok to treat women in this way (i.e as sex objects).

Madabout thanks for your comments, I appreciate them. His 'flirting' is something I will raise at counselling this week. Ironically we'd been going for nearly 4 months before his affair actually came out although I'd known for a very long time something was not right.

He can't see that he is flirting. He has always been a very friendly person and is one of those (fucking annoying) types that calls people 'sweetheart' and 'darling' in a very South London way. I remember a few years ago one of DS's teenage(female) friends found it a bit uncomfortable and we pointed this out to him but he still continues. I don't believe he has actually met the woman he was talking to on the phone, she is an actuary that works for another company that his company does busines with. I accept he is very friendly and I think it might be a novelty for him working with many woman as the company he worked for for the past 12 years had no female employees and only male secretaries. I accept there will be a bit of friendly banter however bearing in mind he has previous for shagging former colleagues, clearly I'm going to have issues.

I really don't think he thinks /realises he was flirting on the phone today and I'm not sure he would have deliberately flirted when I was in the next room about figures. It may be just me being paranoid (for good reason) and very very insecure. Oddly, he has been back 2 weeks now and the arguments only started yesterday. I have to wonder whether I will ever be in a position to trust him again.
He has offered to change his mobile number but that is not going to stop him giving it out to other women/previous whore so I don't know what will be achieved by that.

Short - I felt the same way discussing dp on here too, if only he had felt the same way with his lies and deceit

looksgood They just don't think do they? They appear to have no idea how much damage their behaviour has done

MOS I think its good that you are having some counselling jointly, if the Relate person is any good- our was- because you are likely to be already aware of wider relationship problems and patterns, and the extra news about his infidelity will also lead you to think about other angles and aspects of your relationship and his behaviour which you hadnt before.

We stopped going to Relate fairly soon- 9 weeks in total, and for 5 weeks after the infidelity was admitted- and really, it was too soon.

As others have said, it was later down the line, when I had recovered from the shock and the hysterical bonding, where I may have needed it more. Also, it would have been useful to have had a few appointments after we had had a bit of practice at the 'new way of being', ie after we had had time to digest all the information and also after I had myself done enough extra reading and thinking. The extra reading, for example, led me to think a bit about sexual compulsiveness, and the Shirley Glass book led me to think about others things which I hadnt considered. It would have been useful to have taken them to Relate at that time, rather than just discussing between ourselves.

No MOSagain, their damage is life long. I'm hoping we can work through this though. Here's a tiny piece from the book by Shirley Glass, it helps to hold on to these seven facts.

1. A happy marriage is not a vaccine against infidelity.
2. The person having the affair may not be giving enough at home rather than not getting enough (so true in my case)
3. It is normal to be attracted to another person, but fantasizing about what it would be like to be with that person is a danger sign.
4. Flirting is crossing the line because it is an invitation that indicates receptivity.
5. Infidelity is not only about love or sex - it's about maintaining appropriate boundaries with others and being open and honest in your committed relationship.
6. You do not have to have sexual intercourse to be unfaithful, Passionate kissing or oral sex is a violation of your commitment to your partner.
7. Emotional affairs are characterized by secrecy, emotional intimacy and sexual chemistry. Emotional affairs can be more threatening than brief sexual flings.

I can so relate to the not giving enough at home, flirting is now a definite no no in this house. Dp has always been a very warm person and he does attract attention, he doesn't flirt in an obvious way, he's just very friendly by nature, obviously too friendly last year! We have (hopefully) built our boundaries back up (and I've enlisted the help of a few armoured tanks around them too ) Dp knows what those boundaries are and I'm hoping that in time I can pull back enough trust to make this relationship work...it's bloody hard though. Sometimes I look at him and just want to scream WHY?!?