After infidelity - those who are still with their partners

[Looksgoodingravy]

We are working through it, it's been four months, we have better days than bad, I know things will never be the same again and there are chinks of normality coming back into our lives again, I'm hoping we will be stronger than before, it will be different. I know my dp is deeply deeply sorry for the hurt he's caused, he's working hard to build those bridges.

My question I suppose is have you forgiven your partner? I know I'll never forget but I know I've got to forgive so that I can move on, I know I will forgive when I feel ready to but is it a necessary step to take...I'm just letting some sad feelings out tonight, I feel sad for the 17 years we had before I found out, seems a lovely carefree time now not one wrapped in pain and hurt.. time to move on and bring the good bits back into my life.

I don't blame you Pissy, I would too

You've got so much to talk to him about. Everything you have written down doesn't look good. He's got to face up to this and tell you the truth. He's crossed the line on a huge scale where boundaries are concerned. You deserve to know the truth about what's happening now and what's gone on in the past. Whether you get that tonight remains to be seen but try and remain calm if you can. After I had talked to dp the first time I just knew there was something more, he was far too upset and I knew he was holding something back, just how much he held back I found out later and boy was there lots more to tell me!

How do you think your dh will react tonight?

He would never cry,he willprobablytryto blame me

2wehad children to soon
Work is so stressful and you just concentrated on the babies
You were a nut job after the MC and drank to much
You don't give me any effection -that's because you are a cheating scum bag--

I have told him we are talking tonight and I will also remind him that he doesn't k ow what or how much I know, his excuse of I can't remember makes me want to walk away for ever because it is just so fucking disrespectful.

I can't ever image getting involved with someone else and not remembering it happened, he is 45 not 95 ffs.

Saying he doesn't know is just a cop out and as for can't remember you deserve the truth simple as and if he can't give you that then you've got to thing long and hard about your future together, he needs to know that you're not going to take 'don't knows' he needs to know that you are on the verge of kicking him out unless he tells you everything.

When I confronted dp with my further evidence I was calmer than I ever though possible and I think this shocked dp, I think he then knew I meant business.

"I have asked who instigated the texting, he can't answer! I said how does a conversation end up with that? Again he couldn't answer!"

Yes he can. He just knows you won't like the answer, so he stonewalls.

PD - my advice is to stay calm, let him do all the talking.

If he blames you, tell him you did not force him to put his dick in OW and that he made these choices without consulting you. Do not take any blame for the affair.

Remember that LOSS is what motivates cheaters so be prepared to kick him out if he refuses to tell you the truth.

Sorry i havnt been here ..... Have talked and talked, and then ive been reading here.

Questions have been answered ...... On a drunk night out she was with mutual friends, (I do sort of know her) the conversation between them all was filthy, she was the only girl in male company, and she made it clear she loved porn. She gave him her email address when she left, and told him to email her, he did. I didn't divulge as I don't realy care about his collegue, but my husband wasn't the only one involved. I think that is why, as he isn't the only one, that's why he didn't feel he was doing anything wrong. She made it clear she wasn't getting enough at home, off her boyfriend.

Dh says, and this is in no order, so I apologise if it's rambling.

He has not and never has had sex with her, everything has been done on email, she sends him pictures of herself for his own satisfaction. She apparantly has a filthy mind of which he finds fascinating. he said she could be anyone, and be treats the pictures just as he would if he was looking on line at random women.

I have constantly asked him do I need to go be checked, and has he had sex with her. He swears blind he has never and would never cross that line, This isn't about actual sex.

Dh has always watched porn on the quiet, I think I've said before, I am not keen on it.

I dont know what to do. I believe that he hasn't had sex with her, but that's the only thing I know. He has still betrayed me and my trust. I expect some of you will think I am daft for that, but the things he said, and his reaction to those questions, we're completely different in tone and in answer from those when he was trying to cover up, or earlier couldn't or wasn't ready to answer.

I've been reading up endless porn threads on here, and I havnt liked any of them.

So does porn become the deal breaker. I don't know where to go from here?

He emailed her immediately once I had told him I had found out, and told her it all stops. He cant use hotmail on his work laptop, nor his work phone the security is to tight, that is her form of contact, the phone in the house he was using is an old phone with his hotmail account set up and it's on my desk in the study. Neither of us have checked his hotmail to see if she has replied.

I have been reading your posts, and will try to reply to you sometime today or this evening, I am thinking of you all. Xx

"he said she could be anyone, and be treats the pictures just as he would if he was looking on line at random women."

Does he think this says anything good about him?

"I am prepared to use women of my acquaintance as sex objects just the same as I do when choosing commodified women as wank fodder."

Wow, what a guy - you disrespect all women equally

Hi all, am still here and have been reading.

ATIYL, tbf the woman that Devastated refers to has chosen to send pictures of herself to someone else's husband, to email him and pursue this kind of contact. She is hardly a victim in all this, in the way a woman in a porn mag/film might be.

I think that if this woman wants to feel respected then she ought to behave in a respectable way. She is a skanky slut, not a trafficked woman.

Devastated - I understand totally when you mention your dh reactions to your questions this time. Dp was exactly the same and intuition told me that he finally was telling the truth whereas before there was still doubt and I knew he had more to tell me.

I don't know how to answer the porn question sorry, dp has used it but it was never a massive issue for me, I've been told it's all linked though, my counsellor explained that when something becomes hidden from your partner such as porn then this is when the issues arise just as an alcoholic hides their drinking, this is when it can become an addiction, I just don't know how I feel about it in the grand scheme of things. I've had so much to think about this past four months that some days I think my head will explode with the whys and hows. All I can say is the bubble has now burst around your dh secrets and lies making it less attractive, once this happens reality stomps back in just as it did with dp, when he knew what he was about to lose he lost the plot, the guilt finally hit him on a massive scale.

Have you thought about going to Relate? or individual counselling. We went to Relate, I'm also seeing a counsellor which has really helped and not to mention the Shirley Glass book. x

I agree with the last poster.

Revelations like this are such an insight into the way some men think. They also betray the values they think their partners hold about other women.

Unfaithful men who are at heart misogynists will often claim on discovery that the women they were were sleeping with 'meant nothing', 'were just used for sex' and the most manipulative make pejorative remarks about the woman's sexual morals.

As if this is meant to make their partners feel better.......

Sometimes this is a complete lie, because they assume their wives can forgive sex or sexual attraction, but not emotional involvement. Sometimes it's the truth though and they really have used another woman for sexual gratification and nothing else.

Now sometimes that's an equal bargain and both parties were using eachother as sexual props, so in those cases it's not an issue of inequality, it's more that someone would risk their marriage and family for nothing more than a few orgasms - and expect their partners to think that's somehow 'better' than having genuine feelings for the other person's humanity.

I think he's trying to paint her as a sex-mad temptress, believing that you will join him in condemning a woman for having sexual fantasies ('filthy mind' is so much more pejorative than that term isn't it?) and is trading on the double-standards he thinks you might have about men and women's sexuality.

I hope he's misjudged you and I hope you'll see the links between all this and porn.

Yuk - Mr DG has so little respect for women doesn't he? Hope he think it was worth throwing away everything over a few filthy emails and dirty pics?

DG, I am not surprised porn is come up as an issue in your case. I think using porn can cause men to devalue women - they start viewing them as inhuman

I think the issue of porn is something you both need to read up on and discuss if you both are to continue staying in the marriage.

Also, my strongest advice to anyone is not to rely on the word of a proven liar about whether to protect your sexual health. Don't pass that responsibility over to someone who has already shown such massive disrespect for your emotional health - why would your sexual health be any different?

I said nothing about the OW being a victim

"I think that if this woman wants to feel respected then she ought to behave in a respectable way."

Um... OK

I wouldn't much like to be married to a man who felt like that about women.

He did have the option of finding this woman's cheap and tawdry advances as unattractive as they would be to a man who actually liked women.

I don't think the other woman is a victim, and I don't hate her, how she chooses to live her life is totally her business. He hasn't once blamed her, I agree he should of walked away from her suggestion but he didn't.

He is willing to go to counselling, I've read on here tho that many have slammed relate, so we will find an individual. He is willing to have any help he needs, he has over stepped the mark and I don't know how I can ever trust him again, I don't know if I want to?

It is so hard replying to you individually as I don't know your stories or why you are here, all I know is we have some common ground and so I totally appreciate your replies.

Devastated, so did he describe their exchanges as 'filthy' and did he say that she had a 'filthy mind' or was that you?

And why would he find it 'fascinating' that a woman has sexual fantasies? Why is that any more fascinating than a man's fantasies - and specifically his?

They were his words not mine.

I don't know why her filthy fantasies would be any more amazing than any other persons thinking the same, male or female.

Sorry I don't realy know how to answer your question?

I think what Stern may be trying to say is that your H may have a madonna and whore complex? Her questions are aimed at your H not you.

MAHC's exactly right, but I do want you to think about what his words mean. You say he hasn't blamed the OW, but the way he has described her actions is extremely pejorative isn't it? I think that's because deep down he thinks that women who discuss sex in this way are 'filthy' - and it was a word he used twice after all. And because despite the fact that he thinks women who do this are shameful, he is fascinated by it.

A man who is comfortable with women's sexuality wouldn't use the word 'filthy' twice and wouldn't be in the least bit fascinated by a woman who spoke openly about what she liked. Someone whose boundaries were secure might have concluded that her behaviour was inappropriate as an attached woman having a conversation with other attached men, just as he would have applied the same standard to an attached man who was boring a group of attached women about how sexually adventurous he was. I imagine he would have expected you in this situation to tell such a sad fucker to piss off, not accept his e mail address and start a sexually charged correspondence.

I don't know a lot about the effects of porn on how some men view some women, but is it possible that Devastated's dh isn't thinking of this woman with any respect, not because of a porn issue, but simply because this particular woman cannot command any respect because of her own behaviour.

There is nothing wrong with two single people sharing this kind of exchange, but there is a time and a place for it and when you are in a relationship and talking to a group of men also in relationships, it is just not appropriate. It was cheap.

People (not just in these situations) are judged and treated accordingly all the time. Perhaps it is no more complicated than behave like a cheap slut = being thought of and treated as one, by others.

despite the fact that he thinks women who do this are shameful - he doesn't think she is shameful, if I implied that I'd didnt mean to. He said she has a filthy mind. (personally just because she has a filthy mind, I don't think that is shameful, that's just her approach to sex, does that make sense)

Yes, it does. I wouldn't judge her badly on account of her sex life/tastes, but I would judge her badly for being so disrespectful and callous towards her own partner and the partners of the men she engages with.

I suppose that all I'm saying is that because she is going through life not showing any respect for anyone else, then it is not very surprising that the men she is involved with, have no respect for her. And that might be the same whether there are additional issues surrounding porn use, or not.

It is possible that his view of women was already skewed before he began using porn - but no doubt that using porn will not have helped him move away from this vie, it probably reinforced it. Again this is something that needs to be explored with him.

I wouldn't have the same interpretation of his words as you Devastated, no.

I think his description of this woman, his admitted reaction to her and some of the other posts you've had about this, smack of appalling double-standards and sexism.

What seems to be missing in your husband's account is that this woman was no different to him or the other men who got involved that night. Every single one of them behaved in a sleazy and abhorrent way towards their partners, yet she is the one who is being described as having a filthy mind, initiating filthy sexual correspondence and he seems to find this surprising in a woman, to the point of fascination.

It's very hard to be objective about this when you are involved and on the receiving end, so I don't want you to misintepret my comments as being in any way sympathetic to the OW and I would quite understand if you detest her.

What I'm trying to point out though is that some very manipulative men trade on the the stereotypes that are applied to women's sexuality, knowing full well that women get judged far more harshly than men for exactly the same sexual behaviour - and those judgements come just as much from other women as they do from men, perhaps especially so from women who've been hurt by this behaviour. A lot of men who get caught behaving badly manage to deflect blame by vilifying the OW's behaviour, knowing that their partners understandably hate her too.

But it is a deflection and IMO it would be better if their partners didn't play along with it and called bullshit instead, refusing to join in with any comments that imply that the OW's behaviour was worse than the men involved. And then secondly to recognise that a man who chooses to do this really doesn't regard women as equal and is being manipulative of his wife's shock, pain and anger.

I'm 2 weeks and 3 days into knowing about my H's affair. It allegedly ended some time before I found out but that doesn't make it any less painful. Although (allegedly!) they only had sex 3 times, they had an emotional and sexual relationship which went on for over 2 1/2 years via FB and emails. I feel gutted and think I'd have found it easier if it was just a one night stand, not an affair which was planned for months before it happened.

I'm really struggling with one thing in particular and would love words of wisdom/advice. I know who this woman is, it was someone DH worked with 15 or so years ago who he 're-connected' with on FB. I now know who her DH is, and somewhat coincidentally he works in the same, very specialised field as me (although I'm not currently working). I have found his contact details and am very close to sending him a message. I feel very strongly that whilst mine and DH's lives/marriage are in pieces, she has got away with it. I have found her twitter account and she has been laughing and joking about things, in particular a comment she made just over 2 weeks ago when I sent her a message via FB saying I knew about her affair with my husband and would be commencing divorce proceedings on the basis of adultery and naming her. Clearly her DH is not on her twitter account (or FB) and is I imagine clueless in all this.

I have very strong feelings that the vows DH and I took were destroyed, they are meaningess and the last 2 1/2 years of our marriage are a farce. I look back at some of the fabulous things we'd done over recent years, cruise to bahamas, travelling around Thailand and its all bollocks as we were living a lie.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to hurt her husband but I feel strongly that he is entitled to know that his marriage is also a lie and the woman he took his vows with has made a mockery of them.

Would I be wrong to tell him of the affair? I wouldn't do it in a nasty malicious way, I don't want him to hurt the way I'm hurting but I do feel he has the right to know about his wife and then make his own decisons and choices.

WWYD?