After infidelity - those who are still with their partners

[Looksgoodingravy]

We are working through it, it's been four months, we have better days than bad, I know things will never be the same again and there are chinks of normality coming back into our lives again, I'm hoping we will be stronger than before, it will be different. I know my dp is deeply deeply sorry for the hurt he's caused, he's working hard to build those bridges.

My question I suppose is have you forgiven your partner? I know I'll never forget but I know I've got to forgive so that I can move on, I know I will forgive when I feel ready to but is it a necessary step to take...I'm just letting some sad feelings out tonight, I feel sad for the 17 years we had before I found out, seems a lovely carefree time now not one wrapped in pain and hurt.. time to move on and bring the good bits back into my life.

Speak about??? Sorry I have waffled on there big time :)

Hi, its taken 2 days to read this and ive cried a few times at how familiar some of your feelings are, this is a bit of a stream of consciousness reply. Today is 5 weeks since I found out about dh and ow, I see her almost daily, my kids adore her and frequently ask to visit her house and it tears me apart. I feel trapped in my own house as she's my next door neighbour I don't hate her, I don't hate either of them, I miss her and that's agony.

I found out on dd3s 3rd birthday at about 32 weeks pregnant with dc4, I'm now 37 weeks and pretty much in denial about having the baby.

The whole situation is just hideous. I made her tell her dh, I couldn't handle the guilt I felt at keeping it from someone I genuinely like, unfortunately I can't bring myself to speak to him now, for some reason I feel ashamed! But then he hasn't spoken to me since either so that's 2 friendships thrown away.

We will be able to move away in December due to dh's job, fortunate really as I can't handle Christmas in this house, she spent Christmas day with us last year (before anything was going on) as her dh was working and I didn't want to see her alone, my vindictive side sort of hopes she is alone this Christmas but then I feel like shit for being mean. I'm a nice person and I won't let them change that about me.

I can't bring myself to ask about this in rl but is it utterly ridiculous if I feel like I can salvage my marriage to feel like I may be able to salvage something of the friendship in time? I feel stupid even wondering it but the few times (weekly) we've been in social situations making small talk I remember how much I liked her and why. I know she doesn't want to lose the friendship she's told me a dozen times but would it be totally ridiculous to want something of it back?

I have no idea how much of how I'm feeling now is hormones and how much is really me, part of me is sure I'm going to turn round in 3 months time and realise I hate them both and hormones are making me a mug. How could they do this while I'm pregnant, how could they plan to sleep together knowing I'm going to be giving birth soon, I don't understand and that's the hardest thing, combined with it being a betrayal from both of them.

theyve both been scrupulously honest with me since i found out from what I can see, and I've seen far more than I ever wanted to but though it crossed lines they didn't sleep together, I suspect by now they would have but the messages between them were pretty clear. It came out of them having a friendship where they confided in each other about their issues at home instead of addressing them with their spouses, not happy about that but I can understand in a way. She took a conversation too far one day (ironically after a lovely day the four of us and my children had spent together) and he didn't back off, both equally at fault there. They both rubbished their vows and as far as I'm concerned she owed me loyalty too as a friend so I do hold them both to blame.

What this has left us with is all of the issues he was confiding in her about, Both of us mourning the loss of a friendship and neither of us is certain how we feel about the other or if we can make this work, he says he doesn't think he loves me but he does care about me (which is sort of I think how I feel about him, certainly not romantic love but I don't want to see him hurt or lose him, is that love?), yet the fear he showed that id leave when he told me that (written down, writing seems to be working well for us) makes me wonder where that line lies in his head. I know he's trying to work on his own issues and I think he's trying to work on us but I don't know how much patience I can give. I want us both to feel happier, have more self esteem etc and come out of this in a positive way either together or apart but I don't want to wait around while he fixes himself and decides he doesn't want me. I'm trying to resist the urge to 'get in there first'

Practically if we split life will be horrid, I'm not in a position to support myself, by the end of August I will have 4 children 7 and under (the closeness in age was deliberate), there's no option for shared custody, if we split the distance will be hundreds of miles apart, there's really no way round that due to his job. So it's council housing and benefits at least to start and the thought of ending up on one of the estates in my home town makes me shudder, not to mention being stuck near his interfering parents. I'm working on my degree through the Ou and want to get a PGCE but that's another 4 years off so trying to work out what I can do in the meantime to support myself if we split. I hate even having to think about it. This isn't my life, it's not what we planned, or what I wanted. I keep wondering what sort of example this is to my daughters.

Sorry that's really very long

Newidentity, I am so sorry for what you are going through. I don't know where to start, such is the awfulness of your situation.

I don't think you can get the 'friendship' back with this woman - she is not your friend. She is someone who has had an emotional affair with your husband, while looking you in the face everyday and sharing your family life. She has done this in the full knowledge that you are about to have a baby and are in one of the most vulnerable times a woman can experience. And it sounds like she started things. Trust me, this woman is no friend to you!

As for your husband, I am struggling to know what to say. He has betrayed you at one of the worst possible times (I know there are no 'good' times, but to do it when you are pg is beyond cruel). He has done this with a woman you considered a friend and have no physical escape from. He has compounded this by saying he doesn't know how he feels about you. Perhaps he should have considered that before getting you pregnant.

I think in your position, I would see no way forward for this marriage, but would be inclined to stay until you are in a good position to rebuild a new life without him. I would see it that he owes you time and financial support while you study and retrain, so I would be inclined to keep things ticking over until that point. It sounds cold, but I think you have to now put yourself first - you cannot rely on him to care for you properly.

Hopefully I 've x posted with the people on this thread who can help you properly - I just couldn't read your post and not say anything.

Newidentity - firstly ((hugs)) I'm so sorry you're posting on here with the rest of us and by all accounts you've had a double blow not only your dh but your good friend I can only imagine how you're feeling with being pregnant on top of all of this devastation, you seem like such a lovely person too x

Tbh I really don't know how I would have felt if dp had told me he cared about me but didn't know if he loved me. I think for me that would have been enough, although it's easy for me to say. I have one ds (5) and I would be in a vunerable position if we split but that wouldn't be enough to stop me kicking him out. You're in a very vunerable position at the moment with being 37 weeks pregnant so I can totally understand why you feel the way you do and to have the ow being a neighbour and 'friend', I can only imagine again how this would feel .

Have you got any rl friends or family you can confide in and who will show support regardless of what you and your dh decide to do in the future? x

Newidentity I'm so sorry you've joined us (((hugs)))
It must be awful having the OW so close to home. I've never met DH's OW but it drives me mad that I know where she lives and works.

I'm in the awful position of not knowing if he still loves me. Part of me wishes he'd just say he doesn't so I could tell him to fuck off.

Got a text from him this morning saying our counsellor had finally replied to our emails (sent thursday am) and has said she will see us wednesday. He asked what I thought and I said my gut was to tell her to piss off, I feel she let us down last week. I asked his views and he said he hates going and would rather not BUT, he knows it is important for me to try to understand so would be willing to go.

Am not sure at the moment but we've agreed to talk tonight.

I'm another one that feels I need to know exactly what went on. So far I know/am told it was sex 2 nights in a hotel the first night and then once the second night and nothing since. Haven't gone into full details and wonder if I need to. Imagine it would do more harm than good and I'd just be picturing them together

I needed to know all the details otherwise my imagination would have built up a far bigger picture of the actual events. Rather than it being all singing all dancing it really wasn't all that.

MOS - I would feel the same way about your counsellor, how long would you have to wait to see another one?

MOS - I'm about where you are in terms of telling him to go. And why was your DH so bloody cold? Their behaviour is so callous at times...

Yes, the things I read were awful & I think about them everyday. I try to see them as grandiose statements that happen in the fantasy world of affairs.

Another hard aspect is the fact that they are prepared to sacrifice their families for some sordid escape from reality.....

Confusedriver - I can relate totally with the way you're feeling right now. It does seem like your dh is doing everything in his power to try and build bridges. The problem is the trust has gone. It's been shattered and no amount of repair will ever make it the same again. This is where I'm stuck at the moment. The yearning for how it was, I don't want to feel the way I'm feeling at times. Dp is bitterly sorry. It's still happened though and he was the one who made it happen. I'm bitterly sorry too x

looksgood I guess I'm worried I'll be thinking of him with her if and when we were doing that particular thing again. No idea what exactly went on and possibly better not knowing. I know so far that there are things I wished I hadn't asked but I did, he answered and they are now 'out there'.

Not sure how long to see another counsellor but I don't think I want to go down that route again. We'd been going since March and although most of the time was a complete lie (he stated at the first one when I raised the flirting on fb issue that he hadn't 'seen' anyone and it was all in my mind and stupidly I believed him) we just kept going round and round in circles about other issues (most of which he accepts now were brought on by his affair/lies/deceipt). I think I'm just too worn out to start all over again.

He keeps going on and on about what can he do to fix it. He doesn't seem to get that he can't bloody well fix it. He has trashed our marriage vows, lied to me and made a mockery of the last 2 1/2 years of our marriage. How can that be fixed?

Newidentity.....hello & sorry for what you are going through. She doesn't deserve your friendship - what type of friend would do that, particularly when you are pregnant? I can understand how you would be feeling doubly betrayed though & maybe mourning the loss of a friend who you thought you could trust.

Did neither of them think of you & the stress it would cause you? It's so bloody selfish - gggrrrrr....

I think that your DH not being sure that he loves you could be that his feelings were being redirected to her. My DH couldn't tell me that he loved me (apart from that other scrip line - as the mother of his children!!!) whilst he was in the affair fog. He now says that he does love me, but I still suspect that he has yet to see the true value of long term love over the passion/fantasy of an affair.

The other knife in the stomach that I have had to deal with is his bereavement for her.....he hasn't rubbed my face in that one & I have had to accept it after reading up on it. If the affair had fizzled out, it would have been different.

I console myself that the loss of his family would have been much worse - he said he told her that he couldn't choose her over us as he knew that he'd end up resenting her for that loss. Maybe some of his shitty comments are resentment about giving her up...

He is writing me an apology letter tonight on the way back from work - I need to see something that really shows me the extent of his remorse & so I can read it to remind myself when I need to.

Incidentally new (sorry can't work out how to make that bold on my iPhone!), my DH started his affair after we had our 2nd longed for baby - we'd been through several mc's & treatment to get her. As if we hadn't had enough shit to deal with?

I've probably missed some posts as I'm doing several things at once here......will catch up later

Quick visit - will come back later but in the meantime, I would recommend that your H read Linda MacDonald's How to Help your Spouse Heal.

Thanks Mad - just been on amazon & ordered it. He's not much of a reader but hopefully he'll make the effort & finally really get it....

Hi all - this is his apology. Not much in the way of "I love you's" , but do you think it's a good start?

Ok, so... How do I begin this!? So much has happened over the last 3 months and the extremes of emotions have been overwhelming and, at times, sickening.

I can barely all but imagine what all of this has done to you. Without giving any justifications, as I know the act of the affair cannot be fully justified, I never looked far enough ahead to see the devastation and sheer irreversible damage that I was wandering in to.

Although what happened has caused all this carnage, the intention was never to target you in a hateful way in all this, and yet if I'd had more conscious control, you would never have had to go through the sheer amount of pain and questioning of self than you've now had to go through in abundance.

The fact is, I had strong resentments that had difficult complex interwoven roots... It's still difficult to put my finger on a single reason as to why I felt the way I did. I had lost a big part of you and you of me. But never have I hated you and never was my aim to damage you and your self confidence in the way that I did. I know looking from the outside in (on my life and the path I took) it would seem farcical that someone could do what I did but with no intentions to inflict hurt to the degree I have. I know this is a difficult concept to grasp and to some extent I don't expect you to, but you have to believe me when I say how sorry I am for everything I've turned upside down in your life. You are a very special person in many people's lives, of which is backed up by the sheer size of your friendship circles and I still see you this way which is why it is horrible for anyone to see you go through this.

I know I've done everything wrong here and regardless of how trapped i felt I should never have strayed in the manner in which I did.

Your wellbeing and my daughters happiness is paramount. To know of the damage this could do to both of these massively important factors in my life makes me sick.

I still don't know what the outcome of all of this will be, but I do know that I am truly sorry for everything.

You will always mean a lot to me and this won't change. We've been through too much together to be merely ships in the night, albeit we were heading down that road for quite some time,but now we need to ensure that we can get to a place that will allow us to see in each other what we each individually need to in order to keep moving forwards.

I don't know if I've overdone the waffle in this apology, but at the core of it is a deeply saddened and very regretful sorry x

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

That letter basically says that he doesn't love you.

He wants you (and your enormous circle of friends) to think well of him.

He thinks very highly of himself.

He's sorry you were upset by what he did, but not that he did it.

Moon - its a short and easy to read book so your H should have no excuse for not reading it

As for his letter - its what I would expect from a cheater during the early stages of discovery, the shock that his actions has painful consequences, the lack of understanding as to why he chose these actions as a way of resolving his issues, the fear that he has lost everything etc.

I am sure that over time as long as he works on the relationship and on himself, his apologies will be different.

I think the fact that he didn't say the love word is probably honest - he is still muddled, having been far too absorbed in his affair fantasy bubble and addicted to OW's ego stroking attention.

He doesn't sound afraid of having lost everything.

He sounds like he's doing damage limitation before he leaves.

You're right A thing - he thinks he hasn't lost everything, I hope he knows that he has a very real risk of losing it all though.

moonface, if I were you, I would be asking about the 'strong resentments' he felt. He used those to justify the affair to himself - to make it okay to go outside of your relationship and shag someone else. He talks about not being able to 'fully justify' the affair, but that implies he feels some justification.

He didn't think about the effect on you, because it didn't suit him to. Yes, he is sorry about the fallout from all this - the fact that you are so devastated is making him see himself in a less than positive light and that is going to smart a bit, but on some level, he still thinks that this wasn't all his doing.

I would be worried by the lack of love in that letter.

Sorry, I know this isn't what you want to hear

That's a bit harsh - he is in a stage of shock and trauma as well, and ambivalence happens on BOTH sides at this stage as things are being worked through.

Mad - he still has a chance of losing everything. I'm definately not scared about telling him to go anymore. I'm backing off a bit to see where this gets us & I told him tonight that I'm not bothered about being on my own anymore. I don't think he's realised the change in me & I am certainly not telling him I love him anymore.

He is confused - and admits that he doesn't trust his feelings a lot of the time. He even questions what he felt for her as he knows about how affairs are fantasy. I don't think he likes that either.

I do think that he's slowly realising how much this says about him. And he doesn't like it one bit.

I know there's not a lot in the way of pleading & I love you....when he did tell me a month ago that he really loves me in all the right ways & he does want to be with me, it freaked me out. I didn't show it but it didn't make me feel any better than I do now.

He's always been stubborn (so am I ) & he can struggle to admit he's been in the wrong, so it's not as if he's doing anything different.

There will be a time limit for this for me - maybe September? I don't intend for this to go on for too long.

I can see how he uses the resentment to try to justify what he did. I am fine with that as I can see that this could make you feel less inclined to act in the best interest of your marriage. It doesn't excuse what he did though.

He has a lot to lose. More than I think he knows or can comprehend yet. The complications that would evolve from losing his family as he knows it, to fill some hole in him, would become apparent very quickly.

But I do have to entertain the possibility that maybe we could both be happier apart. I'm not going to delude myself that this couldn't be the outcome of this. And, if I'm honest, part of me does find that interesting & appealing on some levels. Although how the buggery I would ever meet another man remains a mystery! My life revolves around kids & women....

I'd just try to enjoy my life on my own & begin to fill it with the things i'll be able to do when he has the kids at weekends.

Abit - yes, the ambivalence does tend to kick in from both of us. It's a daunting prospect when you are trying to work your way through infidelity - you know you've got some serious shit to deal with & it's only human to wonder whether it's worth it or if you can handle it.

I don't know if I'd be more unnerved by constant declarations of love/gifts etc as I'd question his true motives. It's just trying to find the balance of getting the right kind of reassurance - enough to help you through it all...

Moon - how are you this morning?

As I have said in my earlier post about the letter - he is at the early stage of post affair discovery and is still in his affair induced fog so I wouldn't be too worried about the lack of I love yous at this stage. Keep watching his actions - these are far more important than words.

And I am pleased at how strong you sound - yes, you need to focus on yourself and rebuilding a more independent life. I remember telling my DH that certain aspects of living apart including 50:50 child access actually appealed to me.

moonfacedbaby yet again I could have written many parts of your post
Of course you might be happier apart, this is where I am at the moment. I think I still love DH despite everything, BUT, I cannot be that woman who is constantly wanting to check his phone, emails etc and worrying myself silly when he says he is working late or going to a work function (they have a lot that spouses are not invited to).

You CAN do it alone and you can meet another man. I have lived through this shit before. My first husband did the same fucking thing to me, had an affair when our youngest was a baby and was constantly lying about everything, not just the affair but other things too. I was so angry when he went away on a business trip that I said if he went I would divorce him. He went, and when he came back the divorce petition was waiting for him. I never once regretted that decision. (I foolishly reconciled with him AFTER the divorce but that is a whole other thread and bottom line, I realised he couldn't/hadn't changed and got shot again) I think thats why I'm struggling now. Can DH REALLY change and not do this to me again?

Anyway, you can move on. I met (current!) DH when my DC were 9 and 12 and he happily took them on and treated them as his own and we had two DC together.

I have to say, and sorry if this upsets you, I really don't mean to, but I'd have found that letter your DH wrote really upsetting. It doesn't seem like he is really saying he is sorry, to me it is like he is trying to justify his behaviour and no matter what, there is no jusitification for what these bastards have done to us.

I got DH to sign a confession statement yesterday. I drafted it and emailed it to him at work for him to sign. I can tell by his response email (in which he said he would sign) that he was shocked/hurt but I explained I needed it done. I've got out the marriage certificate all ready for if I feel I need to do this. I have promised not to do anything until after our holiday (we go Thursday) and as its our anniversary whilst we are there, I think that might be the time when I make a decison as to what I'm going to do.

We have to make a decison today as to whether we are going to to see the counsellor tomorrow and although he doesn't want to he said he will for me. I think I might agree and use the whole session getting him to understand exactly what he has done to me and the ongoing effect it will have on our relationship. He needs to know that if at some point I cannot deal with it and cannot block out what has happened, then divorce is the only way to go. I will not take second best, none of us should.

Hope everyone has a good day x