Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

999 replies

foolonthehill · 09/07/2012 20:53

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
bertiebassett · 24/08/2012 21:32

pony how are you doing?

Well apparently my NSDH is looking at two properties next week... However I'm not holding my breath that he'll take one of them. I think know that he has lost his ability to manage his finances.

He's shown me a breakdown of his spending and quite frankly it's ridiculous. He's also told me how much he will need to rent a property suitable for his lifestyle that he can't afford DS to stay over.

He says will not be able to give much (or any) money towards the mortgage when he moves out. So I'll have to try and manage and then reclaim it from my share of the equity.

He has not budgeted at all for child support payments (which even if we go 50/50 access would still be over £200 a month according to CSA calculator).

So my problem is if I tell him what I think (that he needs to look again at his financial plan) he will probably panic and NOT move out...and at the moment I just want him gone...

TheSilverPussycat · 24/08/2012 23:59

Funnily enough, I quite enjoyed my time in hospital. It's the 4th time I've been in, twice in 1993, once in 2003 and now this. The first 3 were precipitated through being awake for 3-4 days, smoking da stuff, so OK partly my own fault, although I was worrying about money and housework - my perennial worries. I actually got my notes 2 years ago, and began reading them just after I filed for divorce. When I went in in 2003 I had 2 days missing from my memory following admission, feared to find out what mad behaviour I'd been doing. Well, folks, I'd been sleeping. And a nurse checked on me every 15 minutes and put a tick in a box to say I was alright. I got quite teary reading the notes and getting such a feeling that I had been cared for - and it was clear both from the notes and my memories that that is what I needed.

It's not all that scary going in, it feels (to me) like an adventure, it's interesting to see what it's like.

bertie that's a tricky one. Would he even take notice of you if you pointed out financial reality to him?

MisSunshine · 25/08/2012 06:18

I am fine, thank you Nini. Hope you all are too.

ponygirlcurtis · 25/08/2012 09:18

I had a post all written out last night (saved in Word, luckily), and then my internet connection went (again) and i sat up till silly o'clock trying to get it back. Yaaaaawn. Anyway, here's what I would have said then.

Silver, that's interesting though that before it was precipitated by one particular thing (smoking stuff), this time it was precipitated by stress related to him. I think it's good to feel that you're being cared for, that's important. Especially since emotional care can often be lacking in these awful relationships that we're in.

bertie, I think I'd let him move out. That has to happen anyway. And pleeeeease, don't agree to 50/50 just to lessen his financial burden... I'm sure you're not, but just in case!

Me, bertie, I'm not sure. Sometimes I'm ok, I'm sure of myself. I get my counselling, I'm all full of information. Then I see him. And everything goes out the window. Our date night on Thursday didn't go well (again), arguing because I didn't want him to be burdening me with how lonely he is in our house on his own, how he's struggling. Selfish of me, I know, but I feel he mentions that a lot and I end up feeling guilty about it and I can't take on his emotional stuff as well as my own. But he called me cold, sick, twisted and we had an awful evening. And then he got up and went to work in the morning and I still felt down so we were arguing again and it just felt like it did before. There was even the old entitled attitudes: he was running a bit late, I said he should eat something before he went, he pointedly said 'I haven't got time to make my breakfast'. This was an ongoing sore point with him before, that I stopped getting up to make him his breakfast before he went to work.

Prior to all that happening on Thursday eve, he was making a very convincing case for why i should go with him to his sister's wedding next weekend. Me going wasn't even on the cards, but then he started with his convincing words. My stepdaughters are bridesmaids and they'd love me to be there to see them. We could show the world how we're working on things. The part of me that can't stop being his emotional crutch wants to go to support him, it'll be hard for him in lots of ways. But I'm not sure it's the right thing for me - I've not seen his mum or sister since I left, there's been no contact from either of them (barring one text from each on my birthday). I think I'd feel awkward, I don't really want to see anyone at all from his family. I don't know if it's the right thing to do. I just don't know what to do. Any thoughts, anyone?

TheSilverPussycat · 25/08/2012 09:49

ponygirl it was related to him every time! He was the reason I was worrying about money and housework, he was the reason I didn't feel cared for until I went in.

Oh dear, I know the breakfast thing was well-meant by you, but it was handing him a stick to beat you with. I know this wouldn't be true in a normal relationship Sad

If your gut feeling says don't go to the wedding, then I would say don't. He's either going to kick off and blame you, or be all nicey-nicey to show your problems are all down to you.

ponygirlcurtis · 25/08/2012 10:03

Silver - that makes sense that you didn't feel cared for. It's a powerful thing to feel properly, genuinely looked after, and awful for all kinds of reasons when the person who really should be is doing the opposite. When I was pregnant and later when DS2 was still little, my NSDH would make a big show of sending me off for a nap at the weekends, then use it against me later saying that I didn't spend any time with his daughters.

The breakfast thing - oooooh, I know that was a stick, I only stopped doing it when I was heavily pregnant and exhausted and I needed that extra 45mins in bed. I actually had to ask if it was ok to stop, and he went off on one and told me how selfish I was, how I obviousyl didn't love him if I didn't want to spend that nice time with him in the morning. Shock (but of course it often wasn't nice time, it was frequently fraught and awful.)
Thursday was the first night he's stayed over on a work night. I so wanted to make his sandwiches for school the next day, so he could be all pleased and grateful. I so wanted to get up and make him breakfast. But I'd promised myself I wasn't going to do these things, precisely because I somehow knew he would still have some kind of expectation of it. And I was right, and I'm glad I didn't do it.

My gut does say not to go to the wedding. But I do feel torn, I'd love to see the girls being bridesmaids, and I know they'd love me to be there. But apart from anything else, I really hadn't thought for a moment I'd be going, I have nothing to wear!!!!

ponygirlcurtis · 25/08/2012 10:08

Hope everyone's weekend is ok, I have to dash now to take DS1 to his new football club (he's sto excited, had a lovely time buying him a football outift yesterday, £12 brought him so much joy, he's said thank you so many times!). Then up to the house to spend today/tomorrow with NSDH and the girls. Today is two years since we met for the first time. Not a long time I know, and a lot has happened for us in that time. I'm not sure how I feel at the mo, been re-reading Lundy and can see all the ways that he's still being abusive - still acting entitled, still making me emotionally responsible for him. And yet I suspect he's going to sense my unhappiness after Thursday and this will be a great weekend to pull me back in. Anyway, will log back on tomorrow even if the wifi connection gods allow. Hope you all have good weekends, in whatever way you can.

arthriticfingers · 25/08/2012 16:53

Hi and strength to all.
Silver really sorry that you were ill in July :(. Here's hoping that the new pills are better. How are things at the moment?
Fool How are you? Long time no hear from.
Moving towards ever more permanent detachment here - which feels surreal.

TheSilverPussycat · 25/08/2012 18:15

I will say again, I thought our problems were in part due to my depression (with occasional mania), but no, looking back it was the other way round. Gave ex a nice excuse to blame everything on me Sad

Am having 2 naps during the day as pills make me tired, but am hoping as I sail serenely into the future I will adjust, and some of it may still be a reaction to all those years of abuse, and to not fully recognising what was happening.

DD is here collecting some more of her stuff, I have made her asked her to clean what used to be her bathroom. Lovely cousin is coming to visit for a few days tomorrow.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 25/08/2012 22:50

Having an awful weekend, but we have friends staying until tomorrow so no time to really update right now. Hope everyone is having a better time than I am. Much love.

TheSilverPussycat · 26/08/2012 09:51

Sending strength nini

ponygirlcurtis · 27/08/2012 14:00

Hey Nini, how are things now?

NiniLegsInTheAir · 27/08/2012 20:01

Things have calmed down again. Crazy thing is, I actually think he's trying to make us work, in his own inadequate way. He was acting the Disney Dad role for most of the weekend (the friends staying were more his than mine, which makes a difference, he acts better around those he respects). But we had a major falling out on saturday - went to the zoo and as it was raining we all took shelter in the restaurant, which naturally was very busy.

DD had had a poo so I took her to the toilet, when I came back our friends had ordered themselves some food, and I was trying to sort out DD's and get her into a highchair. He started pestering about what we were going to get for lunch so I told him to go take a look at what they had. He was obviously pissed off (he'd paid for us to get into the zoo so was obviously thinking that I needed to pay for lunch to even things up - hadn't occured to me as I was just trying to sort DD out). Anyway, he went up to the food and didn't come back to tell me what they had.

Our friends had ordered themselves a lovely looking cream tea each, then he comes back with a cup of tea each for us, and one sandwich. I was a bit Hmm, didn't say anything, fed DD. Admit I was stupidly a bit miffed as he'd bought a sandwich filling he'd liked, and having seen what our friends had ordered - he was obviously just trying to save himself some money by buying whatever was cheapest. Neither of us touched the sandwich until he snapped at me with "aren't you going to eat it then?" I said it wasn't really what I wanted, so in front of them he snapped angrily at me "that cost me £3.20" then flounced off with DD. Our friends were of course a bit embarrassed so went off on their own for a bit. I was mortified, he wouldn't talk to me for most of the rest of the day and later on called me 'useless' in front of them when I didn't understand one of his jokes.

Phew, what a long post for something so utterly minor! Hope everyone else had a better weekend and FWs were behaving?

onesixonetwo · 27/08/2012 20:49

Nini that doesn't sound minor, I think it's particularly horrible when you are humiliated in front of other people.

My weekend has been better, he's still drunk but not nasty and today he said he was going to stop drinking for a while and go to the gp. Which is great but I don't know where trouble will come from next so I'm always stressed waiting for it to happen again.
DD was upset today, she's seen him drunk recently and doesn't like it.
I'm so frustrated and annoyed with myself that there isn't anywhere else for us to live now.

ponygirlcurtis · 28/08/2012 10:27

Nini, I agree, not minor at all. If this was a one-off, you'd be able to shrug it off and get on with things. But it's not, it's how things always are, and you're completely worn down by it. Can you make plans to not be around him this next weekend, to give yourself a break from it?

One six, that sounds awful for you. My previous partner (DS1's dad) had a drinking problem, which is why I left in the end. He was never violent or aggressive with it - he was a happy, silly drunk, everyone loved him, he was a laugh, but it just got too much - the number of times I had to coax him up the stairs because he could hardly walk. And the number of times I just put a blanket on him on the sofa. In the end, after he'd slept on the sofa again following an all-night bender, and I came down with DS and he was poking at his dad passed out on the sofa. I just thought - this is not the life I want for him, to see his dad passed out on the sofa in the morning. After putting up with so much for so long, that was just my sudden epiphany. I left about a week later.
If you're having to put up with that kind of fuckwittery, and deal with him being abusive as well, you must be exhausted dealing with it. Do you have a plan, or are you waiting to see what happens when he goes to the GP?

ponygirlcurtis · 28/08/2012 10:36

My problems are ongoing, and partly of my own making at the moment. NSDH still maintains that the argument on Thursday night (when I asked him to stop mentioning so often how lonely he is and how awful it is for him being alone, and he told me I was twisted, cold, etc) was all my fault, I started it and kept it going. He's so fixated on who's fault it is (mine, usually) and who should take responsibility.

We had a lovely lovely day on Saturday - actually, i slept most of the afternoon - but then I drank too much again in the evening and my anger came spilling out of me towards him. I know that makes me no better than him and I hate myself for it. It was all precipitated over this Julian Assange case, and the people that have been making comments about what does and doesn't constitute sexual assault. We had an 'incident' in March. We'd had a few arguments previously because he'd been trying to initiate sex early in the morning and I was still wanting to sleep - obviously Mr Entitled was annoyed I wasn't making an effort. This morning I was asleep, and holding the baby's hand through the cot, and he initiated sex. I was half asleep and thought any minute he'll realise I'm not involved and stop, he'll remember our argument when I categorically said it was not ok to wake me up to have sex. But he didn't. :((( Afterwards, he shouted at me because I was making him feel as if he'd done something wrong. Sad

I can't really remember what I said to him on Saturday night, but I just feel I've never had a satisfactory discussion about it without him basically saying I'm making too much out of it. But I need to stop my angries leaking out like that because all that happens is I feel like shit the next day, and that's not helping me any.

NiniLegsInTheAir · 28/08/2012 12:09

Curtis unfortunately we have no plans this weekend (and weekends like that are ALWAYS when shit hits the fan). I'm trying to make plans with someone, anyone! But so far no luck, everyone I know seems to be busy. Dreading it so much Sad

Our 'spending 10 mins talking every day' thing the councillor gave us has already ground to a halt. For the first few days I had to instigate it every time, so wondered what would happen if I didn't mention it. As I suspected, he hasn't instigated so we're now no longer doing it. I find it a bit Sad that I can predict him so well - when something (anything) needs doing I'm always the one who has to start it. He never does. What does that say about him I wonder?

Anyway. Curtis is it just worth staying away from the drink if it only causes you hassle? Very Shock about the incident you describe, has he taken any responsibility for it? And has it happened since?

onesix Big hugs. Curtis is right, do you have a plan? It must be terrible for you and your DD. Sad

ponygirlcurtis · 28/08/2012 14:02

Nini, you don't need someone else to make plans with - make your own for you and DD. Take a picnic, go to the park, go to a museum, go to a garden centre with an animal bit (all favs with my DS when he was a littlie). Make it clear that you're doing your own thing. You've just had a couple of awful weekends when there's been stuff going on, so if it's even worse when there are no plans, then make sure you're not around. You owe it to yourself to get out of the house and not subject yourself to it if you know it's coming. I know the temptation is to to do nothing in the hope that this time he'll somehow have magically changed, but you know he wont have.

With the spending time, is it possible to just say to him at dinnertime - 'We haven't had our 10 minutes for the last few days, I've been waiting to see it you'd initiate it since I've started it every time so far. You haven't mentioned it and now I feel like it's not important to you. If it is, can you please initiate a talk tonight.' Or something like that - no discussion, just stating as fact how you feel and what you want him to do about it.

I'm definitely going to steer clear of Wine. I don't drink during the week particularly, but when I'm at the house on a Saturday he plies me with it liberally - he gives me a drink around 5pm (with him having been drinking since lunchtime or mid-afternoon), and my glass is never empty after that, he makes sure of it. But I need to take responsibility for myself and not blame him for this, I'm the one happily downing it, I need to say no more thanks (or no, not at all).

Nini, I've tried to talk to him several times about the 'incident' (as I keep calling it, can't get my head round it being anything else). We argued massively for two weeks following it - he kept saying he'd said sorry that he'd upset me and didn't know what else I wanted him to say, but there was no recognition at all that how he behaved was wrong, and I'm obviously (pointlessly) still holding out for some acknowledgement. It was all about him - how bad I was making him feel by keeping talking about it, as if he was some kind of rapist (he used that word, I never went near it at any point), how bad he felt because I wouldn't go anywhere near him sexually for about 2 weeks. It obviously still upsets me if it's coming out like that when I've had a lot of few drinks.
Nothing like that incident has happened since, or had happened before. But there have been incidents before and since of me saying I didn't want to have sex (usually at night, tired, etc), and he'd go into a strop, really annoyed with me, and I'd end up agreeing just to stop him going on. And when I was 37 weeks pregnant, I told him I wanted to stop having sex because I'd had bad SPD since 10wks and it was beyond uncomfortable now, and he got annoyed with me then too, told me I was selfish Shock and what about his needs. So of course we didn't stop having sex. But that's partly my own fault, I feel, for not being strong enough to draw my line in the sand and say 'no, I don't want to do this and I don't care what you say'.

And now he wants me to go to his uncle's funeral with him, as well as his sister's wedding. I just don't think we're anywhere near that point of being able to go to family things together, and I'm not sure I'm emotionally strong enough for either event. I've just texted him to say really sorry but I can't go to the funeral, but I want to support him so I'll find a different way to do it, I'll make sure he has a relaxing night that night (it's our normal Thursday date night). I hope he's not going to go off on one about how selfish I am, but I guess if he does then it tells me more than I need to know. Sad

Sorry for the mahooooosive post, it's just spilling out of me these days...

NiniLegsInTheAir · 28/08/2012 20:45

I know Curtis, you're so right Sad. I just get lonely for company (no family, few friends here) and find DD a handful - I do all the childcare (when she's not at nursery) during the week, plus I feel like I'm not stimulating company enough for her, but that's another story.

No chat tonight. I might try and say exactly what you've said to him, if I can get the courage up to talk to him, part of me really can't be bothered.

My NSDH used to get the hump with me when I didn't want sex too - not long before the 'incident' in April I was falling asleep when he curled up close behind me and pushed his erect cock up against my bum. I told him off for pestering and he said "I have needs you know" grumpily before turning away to sleep. Yuck.

Stay strong and no wavering! And no blaming yourself either Smile. Do you think there's a chance he might deliberately be plying you with alcohol in the hope you'll slip up so he can feel good about that? Hope you're ok.

onesixonetwo · 28/08/2012 22:05

Apologies for sporadic replies, I can only post when he isn't around.
I spoke to the local housing office who put my social housing application on a higher band. They were understandably reluctant to give me a time scale but said it should take less than a year, which seems forever to wait right now.
I cannot afford to rent privately in our local area and do not want to move away as my support network is here, DD is settled here and she about to go into yr10 so she is in the middle of her GCSEs and I'm determined she shouldn't suffer academically because of this. Although I realise she is suffering in other ways although she is seeing CAHMS as she was very ill this year and found it difficult to manage.
I do know I should ring the Police if he becomes violent again and I will.
It's difficult being around him, I am fairly resolute about the course of action I have to take but I do still love him and I'm finding it difficult to maintain a distance from him emotionally. If we were seperated I could make the break emotionally and begin to heal, if that makes sense?
I looked at the Lundy Bancroft book on Amazon. If I bought myself a Kindle can I lock it with a code like I can my mobile phone so he doesn't know what I'm reading?

bertiebassett · 28/08/2012 22:46

Just marking place...

TheSilverPussycat · 28/08/2012 23:47

Although the Lundy preview is kindle version, it doesn't seem to be actually available for Kindle the last time I looked.

nini I doubt you are not stimulating enough company for DD, where has that idea come from?

I am recovering from my transition period quite well, cousin has been lovely company, would write more but am a bit pissed tired. So wishing you all strength (again).

AnastasiaSteele · 29/08/2012 11:42

Hello all,

Not been on for a bit...the thread got long and was too overwhelming to catch up. Nothing of note to report, i've not gotten out, but my backbone is getting stronger. I've acquired some new favourite phrases when I'm shouted at for nothing (speaking too quietly, speaking too loud etc):

On bringing tea in bed, He says: 'That better be tea not coffee'. Anastasia says: I think the words you were looking for are 'thank you'

On not knowing his every need and getting shouted at, Anastasia says 'I'm not psychic'

On being shouted at over nothing Anastasia says 'alright, no need to shout at me like I kicked your dog'.

I know it's not as good as leaving, but it's better than taking this shit lying down.

I've cast off a couple of so called friends, adjusted my attitude in general, standing up for myself, taking small victories (eg that I look better in heels is my opinion and his opinion, but also his insistence and I have decided if its not practical or comfortable, it's not happening), applying for jobs and a course.

There's a new Anastasia in town and if people don't like her, they can lump it.

I'm going to try and post on here more. I even managed not to go, NC, be 'normal' and return under a new NC.

Hello all.

lostmywellies · 29/08/2012 12:10

Woohoo for small victories! Well done, Anastasia.

Lurking more than posting since we moved house. Reading this every now and then is keeping my mind clearer about what is and what isn't acceptable. Some of you are incredibly strong women and inspirational!

NiniLegsInTheAir · 29/08/2012 13:07

No idea about Lundy on Kindle onesix, sorry Sad

Silver I'm not a very confident mum, always worry that DD gets bored when she's with me and I'm not very good at thinking up games etc. I usually just end up taking her to the supermarket Sad.

A big well done to you Anastasia, good for you on sticking up for yourself! Everytime you do it just think of us doing a mini cheer for you Smile

We didn't have a talk last night but when in bed had a conversation that went like this:

NSDH: We havn't been having our talk lately.
Me: I know. As I always do the instigating I was waiting to see if you'd take the lead for a change.
Short silence.
NSDH: Do you still have feelings for me?
Me (a little bit annoyed but trying not to show it): Why is everything all about you?
NSDH: It's just a question.
Me: Ok. Well if I didn't feel anything for you I wouldn't still be here would I.
End of conversation.

I wish I had the energy to write down all the things I see that are wrong with that conversation, but I'm too tired.

Strength to all.