Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

kimbalina he will probably turn it straight back at you.

mymumsdaughter mine was even longer than that. I kept hoping that he would come good but he never did.

Have been doing a lot of thinking today, and noticing that some of my friends have run abusive patterns on me. They seem to think that because I have had mh issues (in great part due to ex, but no-one believes this) they have carte blanche to pull me up on things in quite a rude way. Sometimes even spaghetti head inducing ways - I can spot their logical errors, sometimes at the time, sometimes afterwards but it doesn't seem worth challenging them. I feel sad that they may have to be left out of my life but there you go.

What do you mean silver ? Will he make out that I have been manipulating him?

kim I told my NSDH that I thought his behaviour was EA.

He has since:

• told me I am EA
• told me I am autistic
• told me I have mental health problems
• told me I am cruel and heartless for 'getting inside his head'
• said that friends and counsellors must have 'turned me against him'
• told me that 'everyone thinks' I am overreacting and that he is completely normal

So in hindsight...I wish I hadn't told him...I think it made him worse TBH

That's exactly what I mean. If he does admit anything, he will say it was in reaction to your unreasonableness. If I challenged mine, he would just come back with something that I did (if he didn't just deflect by telling me I was shouting at him, something I do I know, and have tried and tried to modify).

I could be wrong of course in the case of yours.

I am sat reading the posts on this thread from the weekend as I couldnt come on due to DH being here. Or rather FWH as he shall know be known (wow that feels good to write that!) It is so weird how so many things resonate, especially kimberlinas posts on Saturday night. My husband is constantly telling me how controlling I am and how stubborn I am. I feel I know my flaws and am reasonably self aware and when it comes to the kids yes I am a bit rigid with their routines but I have no say in what he does or where he goes I don't even try and control any part of his life.

Also how he contradicts himself, in one conversation he tells me I put too much pressure on him to succeed in his job and then the next conversation apparently I don't have any faith in him that he can cope when I express my worry he is taking too much on. It makes me want to scream- any excuse to argue with what I say! I remember when we were trying to chose baby names. Every name I suggested was a no yet when I told him what my friend was going to call their baby he said 'oh thats a lovely name'... you guessed it- I had suggested it but was told it was far too common. Ooh I am ranting now but it feels good to get it out. Some of this stuff has been eating away at me for years. It all sounds so small but he makes everything in life so difficult.

I am sorry to read that misguided and mymumsdaughter are having there own difficulties. It's awful to think of others dealing with such manipulative bastards but I have gained so much knowledge from this thread just from reading it. I am feeling brave today hence my first post earlier. But I can feel my resolve wavering already and am sat thinking how sad it would be for my two kids and how difficult it would be to move on on my own.

Hildebrand and silverpussycat, thank you for your replies. Even if I don't act on the information I get from the solicitor tomorrow, I think it will help me feel stronger and next time he is losing the plot and ranting and raving at me I hope I have the strength to tell him to get lost.

Kimberlina- just seen your last post. I have tried to use the word 'abusive' when talking to my FWH in the calm after the storm (ie when he has had a big blow up at me and then afterwards is trying to calmly tell me I am overreacting and that it was all my fault). He has picked up on the word and now regularly uses it when picking me and my flaws apart. I do sulk sometimes as I just feel I can't talk to him and that is definitely me being abusive to him so he tells me. In my experience it has been thrown right back at me. How have other FWs taken being told that they are EA?

talky it's good and yet so sad to know that we're not alone. I too have read for a long time without posting. I think deep down I know that DH is EA and that we are not going to make it and that I should probably move on now whilst DD is little as she won't remember anything about a break up.

But then I live in hope of having the life that I always imagined, or tell myself that my friends DHs are probably different behind closed doors, or that DH is depressed so that excuses his behaviour. And then I start wondering if I've done that thing when you google an illness and become more and more convinced that you have it.

Because all I want for DD is the happy family life that I had growing up and I know that is impossible. She will either have a broken family (which I never ever imagined that I would bring a child into a broken home) or a father who is there but who always puts his own needs first.

It's so sad but I would be heartbroken if she grew up thinking this is normal and ended up with a marriage like mine

Hi Talky and welcome to you and all the other newcomers. Us old hands who have been dealing with FWHs for a long time have learned the hard way how to handle them.

Don't share your new knowledge - you are just giving away your weapons to the enemy. Don't let him see the Lundy book, don't talk about how abusive he is and DON'T GO TO JOINT COUNSELLING!! It makes things worse.

What you have to do is study the characteristics of abusive partners in the links and play Abuser Bingo quietly to yourself. Detach from the situation and pretend you are a CCTV camera recording his behaviour. It will stop you being drawn in and responding angrily, and it will confirm your suspicions that his behaviour isn't that of a normal loving partner. Some people find it helpful to write a diary to remind you of what he has said and done. Be aware he will cycle from Mr Nasty to Mr Nice as he feels you pull away and detach. That is called hoovering as he tries to suck you back in with his charming side.

While you are watching and wondering how you have been so blind for so long (28 years in my case!!) you will be forming the tiny beginnings of a plan. It may seem impossible to imagine leaving your family home and starting again with no money or possessions, but it can be done! And we will support and cheer you along the way.

I have my first session with FWH and the Collaborative divorce lawyers this week. I think I can handle it. I hope I am right!

I feel I could have written your posts kimberlina. I had such a happy upbringing and always imagined that I would give my kids the same. I feel so much guilt for bringing 2 lives into the mess that is my marriage. I knew he has 'issues' but as cliched as it sounds I really thought I could help him work through them, I could help him be the better man I thought he wanted to be. I too make endless excuses for him- stress from work being the main one. He does work hard but then so do so many people and they never resort to abuse. What a mess.

Hi lemon I'm getting some great advice from here

1 last question (for now). Do EAs know they are abusive or is just normal and reasonable behaviour to him

EA partners are never in the wrong. They cannot envisage making a mistake for which they should apologise. Someone else is to blame, and must be punished. That person is you!
And Talky, we all feel guilty. I see my DD1 being aggressive and my DD2 being manipulative and I hurt! I wish I had seen the patterns sooner while they were little and had got out earlier. But then I feel sorry for FWH because he had such awful role models growing up and he is aware he has caused me to leave even if he can't understand why.

kim & talky same for me.
I had a lovely childhood with wonderful parents. I really wanted DS to have the same experience as me. Parents who were committed to each other and put their family first...

I've also been married and divorced before and vowed to pick a better man 'next time'. I thought my current NSDH was a really good catch...he seemed so kind and gentle. I can't believe how much he's changed in 15 years. There were a couple of red flags in the early years but I too thought it was stress.

Isn't is amazing how many excuses we make for their behaviour over the years? I'm quite embarrassed about that now...

kim that's a good question.

My NSDH will, on occasion, say that he understands how his behaviour is abusive. However, I am not convinced that this is 100% genuine. The reason is that while he appears to comprehend how inappropriate his words and actions are...he does NOT realise the effect that they have on me (or DS). Nor does he accept that my response to his behaviour (of wanting out of the relationship) is totally understandable...

Lundy talks about this in his book...

Mine has made up a complete alternate history, which involves him giving up a successful business as I couldn't look after the kids. I can prove this is not so, but decided to settle instead of pursuing it to the next level of court hearing. My fear is that everyone believes him, including DD, although I don't know what he has actually told anyone. It hurts.

I have a lovely friend who believes in the shelf life of relationships. She spotted that I didn't love my FWH long before I did (I was in denial and treating him with contempt). She reassured me that is would be okay just to say I wanted to leave and the marriage was over.
This was very helpful. I never blamed him publicly or accused him of bad behaviour and I don't think he badmouthed me either. Most of our friends were completely baffled when I left because we hadnt argued in public or gone off with other people. But I had become resentful and angry and it was making me into a person I really didn't like or recognise.
Being able to leave without mudslinging has made it easier to share the parenting of our DC. And we are negotiating our divorce quite calmly too. Thanks God!

Hi all, been reading the recent posts and hugs to all. I've been in hospital unexpectedly; a possibly sinister lump was found and I had to go and have urgent xrays and CT scans etc. Ended up staying a week.

As I drove to hospital, I called FW to collect DS from friend's house, texted him address, then was being examined by docs etc, during which time I had several missed calls from FW - when I finally called him back, he hadn't found the place, and shouted down the phone, "You didn't give me the phone number, I've had enough, I'm going home" (ie without DS). You know how mobiles are - his voice may have resonated on ward.

Meanwhile DS stranded at play date and me sitting there thinking I'm facing the worst news, alone and afraid, FW shouting at me! What an arse! Later he was moderately supportive and concerned over the whole health thing (though finding reasons for health issues to be my own fault of course).

That first night, as I lay there alone, wondering if this was it, it gave me a lot of perspective. I tried to post on here via hospital internet-by-bed-thingy but failed. I wanted to reach out, I felt so alone. Luckily the news was not the worst; it's not "sinister" but I may be facing an op and unpleasant times to come. It is worsened by stress.

Fuck me, but where does my stress come from? But I have to go through more stress to get out of it and I am feeling frail. Anyway, no easy solution but needed to vent, sorry. xx

Quick hug before I go to bed tte

Thanks for hug, Silver

Big unmumsnetty hugs escape, that must have been so isolating, with nobody to talk to. What a wanker he was to you!

Sending you lots of and a or two. Hope you've got some decent support from beyond FW to help get you through this?

. marking place

Hello ladies, can I join in please? Have been hiding in denial for long enough. I started a trial seperation from H 4 months ago, after finding c/card receipt from his secret lunch with his 21yr old asst manager. We've had issues for the past 18m at least over his excessive texting (her) emotionally detaching from me, and long term EA getting much worse recently. I left him 2 months ago, moved out of our marital home with our 4 DC's, and he proptly had staying overnight in secret, even when our DC's were staying overnight upstairs in bed. He still denies anything has happened, and that I'm crazy, unstable, controlling etc. (Of course I was unhappy about his works Christmas party, there were no partners invited and I knew she wanted my husband and was trying her best to get him.) Have been told today by a colleauge of his, that they were at a meeting together recently and made other people embarassed by their giggling and playing with each others phones etc. God, it still feels like a knife through the heart.
I just want to know, even when you know that they are killing you emotionally, and that you've done the sensible thing detaching from them, when does the hurt stop?
I still have days when all I want to do is cry. I don't miss the man he is now, I miss the man I married, who changed when our first DC was born and became cruel and heartless over the last couple of years.
Our divorce is not in the least amicable, it's nasty and bitter, and i hate it when he calls with the DC's to say goodnight like tonight, and DD2 is crying saying 'mummy, I want to sleep at your house tonight.' I know she's tired and emotional and therefore tearful but it's like a form of torture. I'd be upset if they didn't ring to say goodnight though.

Your pain is palpable, it wrings my heart. It is still early days, you are deep in grief. I hestitate to advise, but perhaps let it wash over you, accept it, do not fight it, it is part of the process, the process of healing.