Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

yes i think i will do that soon.... WA said not to tell him that i was thinking of moving but i really want to tell him now. i feel i need him to know

WA were right. Be very careful.

jan you asked about doing stuff around house?

Well in our house everything is topsy turvy ATM but I can tell you how it was...

STBXH did his own ironing (I didn't do it to a high enough standard). He did quite a lot of washing up & tidying (bit OCD). He also put bins out and mowed the lawn.

I did ALL the shopping, cooking & most of the housework. I sorted out ALL the financial stuff (STBXH couldn't even tell you who our mortgage was with). I did ALL the night shifts with DS until he was 4. I organised ALL child care holidays, nights out, babysitters etc.

Oh and we BOTH worked full time (me since DS was 18m).

TBH I would have happily carried on doing the majority of this stuff (I like being busy )...IF I had been treated with honesty, respect, and love...

But I wasn't.

So here I am.

So what I'm saying is that you can do all this stuff too...it might take a bit of time to get organised but then it's not too hard (despite what the male of the species tell us).

I paid the rent and all the bills and he gave me a cheque (usually with grumbling and nitpicking after being chased a few times) each month. I took the laundry to the launderette for service washes and picked it up again. I kept the house clean and tidy and did the vast majority of the cooking. I did my best to entertain his daughters when we had them every other weekend. I picked up one of his daughters from sports practice when we had her. I often dropped him off at work and picked him up again. I'd hoover up after his daughters' dogs. I changed their beds when I realised they hadn't been done for six months. I put him on my car insurance and he would get shirty if I asked him to fill the car up after he'd used it. He would occasionally wash up and do the odd thing in the garden, for which I was supposed to be gushingly grateful. I made all the moves in bed and then got nasty comments about my appearance.

Bills are easy. Everything on DD or standing order. All bank accounts managed online or by phone.

I wouldn't tell him, Jan. It could backfire horribly, or he will follow the usual path of best behaviour for a bit followed by a swift return to arseholedom.

Don't worry about posting and running jan, it's what I've been doing all day, this is the first time in ages I've had the time, opportunity or head space to be able to think about posting for someone else.

What about a private landlord for renting? I had the same problem, my income is very low and the rental agencies needed someone as guarantor. I've gone with a private landlord in the end, and it also avoids lots of processing fees.

The 'I do stuff you don't' is a red herring. My DS1's dad used to excuse himself from doing much housework because he mowed the lawn. I agree that if you've got bills etc set up on Direct Debit it takes no time.

bertie, thanks for your post replying to mine earlier - how are you feeling now, btw? Are you getting looked after ok?

I do of course remember that you were me and I was you. And so it continues - I also left NSDH to do his own ironing (mainly because I don't iron), and my NSDH is also a bit OCD - kids (and me) got shouted at if they hadn't washed hands 'properly' before every meal, every item of clothes he owns is stained with bleach because he uses it all the time for everything. The irony is that although he used to sneer at me over him having a busy full-time job (teacher), and me being at home with the baby sitting watching Jezza Kyle all day (obviously), I kept that house ticking over with constant food supply, dinners made, lunchtime sandwiches made, washing up kept on top of, laundry always done, house mainly tidyish and cleanish, for four of us plus his daughters at the weekend. Now I'm not there, the clean clothes are heaped in piles around the house, unfolded and not put away, the kitchen is a mess, and there's never any milk. And he's on summer holiday from school so he doesn't have the job excuse...

Anyway... you're completely right about not wanting to give up on him. I dont want to be a quitter! He's making it blinking hard tho to not throw in the towel. Saw him earlier, I was pretty riled after two horrendous days and him still having a go (actually raised my voice to him, he said I was shouting and being aggressive!). He told me if he's to be able to stay in our house, I need to contribute towards the mortgage, or I need to agree to us remortgaging so he can have money sitting to pay the mortgage and not worry about it while we're working on us. It made sense while he was saying it, I felt I was being the unreasonable one by not paying towards the mortgage, but now I wonder if I need my head examined????

pony I'm gradually getting better thanks...being looked after by NSDH who is doing it all for show as everyone is watching him VERY closely at the moment but he won't last much longer and family.

The bleach! Oh yes we go through bottles of the stuff...

They sound very similar our NSDH's.

ATM mine thinks he will buy me out of the house and either live here himself or rent it out to me and DS.

This will not happen as he has no money, no financial sense, and no way of raising the funds necessary to buy me out.

He has yet to realise this.

If I move out I am 100% sure that I would be in the same position as you. He would believe he could manage...then realise he couldn't...then he would try and make me bail him out...

It's a tough call...have you had any financial advice?

No money, no financial sense... are you sure you're not married to my husband??

He has actually said he'd pay me to come up and do all the laundry and house-keeping - he was half-joking (but half serious...).

I've had legal advice - unfortunately, if we sold our house, he'd be entitled to take half of the equity, despite me having put in over twice as much as he did into the house when we bought it (just over a year ago). And it looks as if he would do that, he's mentioned it more than once, says he's entitled. Then has the cheek to berate me because I'm apparently not thinking about the financial mess I'm leaving him in by expecting him to pay for the house himself, all because i'm not living there.

Financially I'm ok, my child tax credits will just about pay for my rent and all my bills, and whatever I can earn through my freelance work will pay for food and then any of my monthly spending. I doubt there will be any left over for paying towards the mortgage as well. I think he might be aggrieved that I'm getting tax credits help, he once railed at me for (literally) hours because I said the health visitor came out to see me and my DS1 twice when he was 3 and we'd just moved home to Scotland, saying I was bleeding the system dry and it was because of people like me that the country was in this state!

Ladies, reading through the last few pages, you all sound amazing and strong and actually quite focused. I think the most important thing here is that you all are aware of what is happening. And it takes a long time to figure that out. I am not living with my EXH anymore but we are still very much involved in many matters of our lives.
It is hard. It has been the most painful crazy and sad 18 months of my life. And I have taken hundreds of steps back into his arms, but have never gone back to living together. I value my house and my headspace so much. And mostly I do this for my children. They are my highest priority so I stay away for them. They need me, and deserve a good me.
I left because they were beginning to get to the age where they would hear small comments, and I couldn't let them think that any kind of EA was ok.I am a romantic at heart and I love my exH and I know he still loves me. But I love those children more.

misssunshine you are so brave.

i don't know why he keeps going on that he has all that stuff to do about our bank accounts and stuff. ive asked him before to explain it all to me and he doesn't he keeps making excuses - cos he doesn't want to give up any control, and he doesn't want to be accountable for his spending - we are currently just in debt as he is a student.

i told him that i was seriously thinking of leaving - but ive told him all this before so he probably doesn't take me serious. i didn't say i had looked up properties. i am going to have the chat about boundaries etc - and it could mean he is on his best behaviour for awhile - but i just want it to last. i just want him to change for good. he doesn't even understand how he is disrespecting me. he really doesn't seem to get it - its just normal for him to come off with loads of comments that are hurtful, he doesn't even mean to, his favourite expression is 'you took me up the wrong way' or ' i didn't mean it like that'. the other day we were in the car and i get sick in the car and can't deal with music on as it makes my head feel worse. i listened to some songs on the way somewhere, but on the way back it was too much and said can we just have it off as my head is bad and he just said 'its all about you isn't it' i was so upset - how can someone who loves or cares for someone be like that? then we had a full argument and i was saying its a need cos it makes my head feel bad in the car and he said he has a need to enjoy music when driving and i am restricting his enjoyment and its frustrating. and caused a whole argument, in front of another girl we were minding after id told him we cannot be arguing in front of kids.
what he was saying may be true in the legalities of everything - but when 2 people are supposed to love each other and care its just not right. its about respect!

i don't even know if i am making any sense. the whole thing is so draining. he gets annoyed cos i dont want to be physical or affectionate anymore. i say respect comes before love. he says its the other way round. sigh.

You are making absolute sense jan. And I lost respect for mine, and my love died (perhaps there is a slight glimmer for the father of my DC).

The music in the car thing rings a bell for me. If I feel down I just can't stand it, and I would ask for it to be turned off. Only got a look though, not an argument.

pony why does he want to stay in the house if he can't afford it? Is he refusing to move out? I too am being blamed for bringing on financial ruin and splitting up the family

jan & silver absolutely agree. Respect comes before love. After years of being treated with no respect by my NSDH I finally lost a great deal of respect for him...and then suddenly realised there wasn't much love left either...so sad that it has to end this way.

I'm now trying to separate before the lack of respect I have for him turns into hatred...

Another agreement for respect coming before love - my NSDH sounds like yours jan. Interesting that your chap equates 'love' with the physical, meaning sex. Mine is very much the same, but for me (and I lot of women I expect), love is not sex. It's far deeper than that.

Had my last counselling session this morning so got very tearful telling her about my weekend. She actually told me I deserve better.

bertie, he refuses to move out. I have asked him to let me move back and he get somewhere time and again.

Nini, you do deserve better. Stay strong. When are your exams?

Am off to go to park with DSs and NSDH, and then have dinner at his (ours), because although I don't really want to if I don't I'll get dog's abuse for not making the right kind of effort. He wants us to stay for an overnight again this weekend, I think it's a bad idea, given how I felt after the one this weekend, but I suspect, as I saw the mighty Hissy say about abusers on another thread, that he needs me there to make him feel better, how I feel doesn't really come into it.

We always had that argument Nini - he said he needed more sex in order to be affectionate towards me, I said I needed affection before I could have more sex with him.

Chicken and egg I suppose, but most sensible people would realise that its far easier to give affection to someone you don't have much sex with, than to do the whole 'lie back and think of England' bit with someone who doesn't show you affection.

I think its just another way to control us to be honest. We have to give in to sex when we don't want to because we are more willing to try anything to help the situation.

Oh pony he sounds very selfish

He seems to be pressurising you into doing what HE wants. Does he in any way understand why you're resisting...why you're unsure? What effort is he making to support you?

Agree with bertie about your NSDH pony - regardless of what he wants, what do you want? You don't have to do anything you don't want to know

My exam was a few weeks back (but won't know the result until Sept). Not another exam until next Jan, but I will be starting my studying again soon. That'll make him cross .

Doing - he sounds so selfish, "if you have sex with me I might be affectionate". What planet is he on. Agree that it's all about control and vulnerability (yours that is, not his). At least my NSDH has given up asking me for sex (think we must be edging the 6 month mark now). In fact I realised the other day that when I dress nicely he doesn't even comment on how I look anymore. Made me a bit .

Feeling gutted that my counselling is now over with nowhere to turn. Still waiting for the couples counselling referral but dreading it. My counsellor seemed quite concerned for me when I left her this morning, she gave me a run down of what to do and how I need to go easier on myself.

Sorry Nini, been out of the loop on this thread the last few weeks, head not been able to deal with it all, so hadn't picked up that you'd already had your exam. Do you have any private counselling options available to you? I managed to find someone who's nearly half the amount I'd expected to pay, still expensive but just about managable.

Regards my NSDH, I increasingly don't know what I want. We had a lovely afternoon at the park, but for the first hour things were the usual spiky-tricky. Him getting in the car and slamming the doors. Him berating me for not bringing a picnic after we'd discussed it, me open-mouthed and annoyed because we did notdiscuss it, and in fact arranged a time for 'after lunch'. And then I told him I didn't want to do another sleepover this weekend, and he was more or less marching us all back to the car in a dramatic way then changed his mind at the last minute and veered down another path. In the end, he talked me round into agreeing to the Saturday sleepover. Don't know whether I am , or about that. All three. I seem to have no backbone. Does he understand why I'm resisting? He railed against me for ages about it, then said he understood completely (and he did seem to, at least in practical terms). But support? No. He's not good on emotional support. The whole time I was pregnant, I got zero emotional support, and was told I was irrational, attention-seeking and quite possibly deranged if I mentioned any problems or worries I had. (Whilst, of course, spending a lot of time scared of him and feeling like I really was going deranged with the stress of it all.)

Got a call while we were out as well, to say I can move into the flat any time from now. Not sure how I feel. I should be feeling relieved at getting my own space again, after nearly three months of sleeping in a single bed and my DS1 on a blow-up bed. But I feel panicky about it. Part of the panic is about telling NSDH, he always seems to have an 'episode' when I mention the flat. He's been four seasons in one day today, one minute telling me I'm beautiful, the next I'm out of order, then apologising for being unreasonable, then saying he loves me but needs us to be moving forward (ie saying yes to sleepovers...). My head's fit to burst.

God, it's just all pouring out of me at the moment. I know we're not supposed to apologise for long posts, but mine are all pretty well endowed with words. Sorry.

pony can you see how he is manipulating you? It is clear from here!

You have a plan. You know he is bad for you and the DC. You have found somewhere to live. You don't want to spend weekends with him. But somehow with a combination of Mr Nice and Mr Nasty and fast spin cycle of hoovering and abuse he is confusing you so much you agree to what he wants for a quiet life.

If you could get away from him for long enough for you head to clear you would see this. But when you are in the middle of it all the Spaghetti Head Mess makes it impossible to think clearly.

The issue of the picnic is classic gaslighting to wrong foot you. You know what you arranged and so does he but he manages to confuse you into apologising for not bringing the picnic. Then you doubt yourself more and the FOG descends.

Take a step away. Practice saying "I am not coming this weekend it is not convenient" and then deliver it without worrying about his response. That is up to him!

I have been where you are and it is so hard to understand. Step away and it will be clearer!!

Lemon, I know.
I can see it too. Very clearly. And yet I don't seem to be able to entirely detach from it. I let myself be drawn back in time and again because I love him so much and desperately want to delude myself believe that he's telling the truth and everything will be ok from now on. Ok, no, from now on. No, definitely, from this point on. Every single time. I am a spectacular fantasist, obviously. I had managed to detach a fair bit and was only seeing him a few times a week, but over the summer holidays (he's a teacher) it's somehow gotten away from me and I've ended up seeing him almost every day, in the guise of him seeing his son for an hour here, a few hours there, a whole day all over. And with that, I guess his hold over me has gradually tightened again. I guess, given all that, I should be pretty amazed that I managed to hold on to my decision to take the flat, allbeit that it was a hellride to get there.

pony please listen to what everyone is telling you. You've almost done it, you're almost out and you won't have to put up with the mind games and the questioning yourself anymore! You know what he's doing so don't let him.

Can someone bash me with my own advice please! Fw is continuing the nice act, I feel like I have no reason to want to leave him anymore, am questioning my interpretation of all previous incidents and comments. I really wanted to be sorted by September I have my first counselling session tomorrow so maybe I'll get some clarity.

But we're supposed to be working on things (hence seeing him lots has become ok), with a view to me going back when things are better. But I know they're not. They are different, but not enough, not yet. Maybe they never will be, but my main aim right now is to not get sucked back in if that's the case. I'm not doing so well in that.

veeeee I felt like that all the time, it was constantly yo-yoing between horrible stress and thinking 'he's being lovely, why on earth would I want to leave?' It's exhausting, and that wears you down as well as everything else that's going on. Your counselling session might not bring any huge moments of clarity, with it being your first one, but will help you feel you're getting a handle on things. And those moments will come, over time.

ponygirl working on things doesn't mean you have to put yourself through this manipulative unpleasantness. You can work on things when you are apart...

veeee just by replying to you I hope I act as some sort of reminder.

I had so long with mine, it was a triumph of hope over reality. Say no to false hope! 24 days and counting

Yes, thankyou silver that's definitely one aspect I can't just explain away.