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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

999 replies

foolonthehill · 09/07/2012 20:53

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
bertiebassett · 01/08/2012 09:49

pony it really doesn't sound like he's putting his family first...it's all about him and what he wants isn't it? Refusing to move out...blaming you for picnic issue...saying that you're being unreasonable because you're having doubts about sleepovers...

Maybe you could remind us all here why you actually separated? I'm not familiar with that part of your story...and maybe it will help you focus on why you are in this situation. I have found it quite useful to take a step back every now and then and look at the big picture...

Anyway, selfishness of everybody's NSDHs on this thread continues to astound me.

I'm on the mend now and started thinking about where we are all going to live.

My NSDH has said he will not give up the house. He will buy me out and either stay here himself or he will rent it to me. He wants to keep it so he has a house for his 'next family'! (this hurts as he knows I can't have any more children)

Regardless of the fact that he will not be able to buy me out, he has not asked me what I am planning on doing or would like to do. Or thought about what might be best for DH. It's all about HIM...

TheSilverPussycat · 01/08/2012 12:33

bertie mine seemed to think we would just sell the house, split everything 50/50, go our separate ways for 2 years and then divorce by consent. I begged to differ. The house was worth way less than what he thought, and is too big to sell fast in the current state of the market. And the main thing: DCat is too old to move again Grin

Then he seemed to think the house would magically turn itself into money Hmm If asked for a specific plan - who would move, who stay to sell - he had none!

ponygirl if you feel up to it, you could try re-running parts of the weekend in your head, inserting witty/assertive replies from you at the appropriate points. e.g no we didn't decide on a picnic, followed by no response to his rejoinder.

bertiebassett · 01/08/2012 14:53

So silver you managed to persuade him that you should stay in the house then?

How are you organising the financial side of things (if you don't mind me asking)?

I need to figure out what to do Confused

TheSilverPussycat · 01/08/2012 15:42

Pm'd you bertie

bertiebassett · 01/08/2012 17:27

Thanks silver Smile

veeeee · 01/08/2012 20:20

I had counselling today. It was great! However, everything leads to the same point - I need to leave fw and it's not selfish to want to be happy.

bertiebassett · 01/08/2012 20:57

Hi veeeee I'm so glad to hear that the counselling went well. I bet it was good to get it all out...

How often are you going?

veeeee · 01/08/2012 21:01

It was my first one today, am going again next week. She also suggested the freedom programme at sure start. It was good to get it out but I also made me realise how ridiculous it is that I seek his approval for everything and that I put up with his behaviour everyday!

TheSilverPussycat · 01/08/2012 21:10

Don't trouble yourself, veeee, it took a while for the penny to drop that I didn't need his permission to divorce him.

bertiebassett · 01/08/2012 21:17

Me too veeeee

I was scared to ...buy my own car with my own money...

D'you know what? When I actually went and bought the car it was very empowering. I have my own car now! I can do what I want...

So can you x

veeeee · 01/08/2012 21:24

Haha silver this is true!

bertie you mean you dared to do something for you?

She asked me today who it is that I'm staying for - she said I told her I'm not happy and that I don't want dd being around it so that only leaves one person who I'm trying to make happy and that's fw!

TheSilverPussycat · 01/08/2012 21:48

My awakening, as it were, began with buying my own car, back in 2009. And opening my own bank account (we also had a joint current account) to do so! Transferred some of 'our' capital from savings to do it.

Disclaimer - he wasn't stopping me buying a car, just wouldn't help.

foolonthehill · 02/08/2012 08:43

bump as we're falling off the page.

OP posts:
bertiebassett · 02/08/2012 09:02

I also recently joined gym without asking his permission

Funny how I'm still worried about him finding out about that...

NiniLegsInTheAir · 02/08/2012 11:30

Really glad to hear your counselling went well veeeee Smile

Stuck in limbo here, no more personal counselling, no news from Relate, we're talking to each other like we're strangers. DD is hitting a terrible twos phase of screaming and he won't be consistent with me - this morning she started screaming at 5:30am, eventually I got her up, she carried on screaming so I put her back in her room to calm down. She carried on for a bit so he went and got her, didn't understand why she then carried on screaming so dumped her on me and left to go to work. Angry

TheSilverPussycat · 02/08/2012 12:42

Hi Nini why was DD screaming - you sound like you know and he doesn't. At least she is learning that if you scream, someone comes, which is useful even if it was cos teddy had fallen out or something

NiniLegsInTheAir · 02/08/2012 12:59

Hey Silver, how's you today?

DD's going through this hideous phase where she wakes up mega early and screams to be out of her cot, no reason I can decipher other than she wants the day to begin. As soon as you get her up she starts smiling and running around so I suggested to him last night that we leave her for a bit longer in the mornings as I don't want her thinking that we'll come running the second she wakes up screaming the house down. Or maybe I'm a terrible mum. Sad. I think this morning I left her for too long and that's why she lost it even when I got her up. But nothing's working.

TheSilverPussycat · 02/08/2012 14:01

That's a good reason! DD's look when she was new-born was 'Oh world! gimme gimme gimme!'

it's a phase. There'll be another equally annoying one along in a minute...

Am v well Brew

NiniLegsInTheAir · 02/08/2012 14:40

Lol that sounds like my DD too, came early as she couldn't wait to meet the world, and been the same ever since then. Smile

She's also in the whiny, tantrumy phase but I think this'll get worse before it gets better Wink

Wine needed I think.

LemonDrizzled · 02/08/2012 15:24

Nini my oldest DD was the same "bring on the entertainment do you know who I am??" It helped when she learned to read and could entertain herself at last.

Now she is a capable independent and very strong minded 21 year old I amazed I ever got her to do anything I said as a child!

It will get better. I remember telling DD "Mummy isn't awake and available for mummy duties until half past seven" and showing her the clock. That helped when she was old enough to understand.

ponygirlcurtis · 02/08/2012 17:15

veeeee, I'm so glad the counselling went well. Keep it in your head, everything that was said, so you can recall it when you're struggling.

bertie asked why I'd separated with my NSDH in the first place. That was a good question, timely I think. It gave me pause. Here it is. Not all of it, of course, there are so many small stories within that there's just no room for, but here's enough of it.

I left because for the year before that (ie the whole first year of our marriage), it was constant up and down, an emotional rollercoaster that in the end got too much. And I grew increasingly scared of him. He threatened me with a golf club a week after we returned from honeymoon, and then used it to put a hole in our living room wall and smash up a bookcase in front of me. I was 22 weeks pregnant. After that, it was more little things - shouting, slamming doors, swearing at me, calling me names. (I was a 'stupid cunt' for not knowing if his car was locked or not). Apparently I was argumentative, I caused all the arguments and I wound him up. He was very jealous and couldn't bear me having had past relationships, once referred to me as the 'village bike' and demanded I give him details. All while pregnant. After I'd had our beautiful DS, it continued. When he was two weeks old and crying for his 2am feed, NSDH picked him up, wouldn't give him to me and said he was going to take him away somewhere and give him formula because I was controlling him with breastfeeding. The run-up to Christmas was awful, more physical stuff - pushing me about, pulling me, poking me hard in the arm (often while I was holding the baby or breastfeeding, so he knew I couldn't move or retaliate). In mid-Jan he assaulted me - not badly, it was more yanking me about the bed, poking me (bruised my arm), slapping me on leg, shaking fist in face and shouting at me nose-to-nose - but I was very shaken. I should've called police, but didn't. I nearly left, but didn't. I thought that would be a wake-up call to him. It wasn't. Things continued to slide back. I was getting increasingly depressed, the health visitor was concerned about me and my situation, but I was paralysed. I lost myself completely. I had friends calling me and begging me to leave.

In the end, it was no big thing that prompted me to leave. I was due to tidy out DS1's room (his stepson), he was annoyed I hadn't gotten round to it yet (because it's so easy to find spare time in the day when you've got a small baby). I said I'd get my mum up to help me. He basically forbad it, said he didn't want her interfering or in the house, shouted and swore at me (this was first thing in the morning, before 7am). When he left for work I texted my friend and gave her permission to tell my parents everything (they didn't know about the violence) if I didn't leave that day, knowing that they'd remove me from the house once they knew. And that's what happened.

Sorry (again) for long post. Recounting all that has brought me close to tears. Why am I so stupid as to still be fighting to maintain this relationship? But that's what I'm doing. He's telling me he's changed, but just last week he called me a 'lying fucking bitch' - referring to the lies I apparently told on our wedding day. He's not changed much, certainly not enough and I can feel things returning to how they were - I'm nervous in his presence and uncomfortable in discussions. Not to mention being manipulated. I moved most of my stuff into the new flat today, and NSDH is wanting assurances from me that I'll only be there a couple of months. I said it was down to him, how he was. He said no, it was just as much down to me, it was us working on stuff and he didn't want me to put it all onto him. I am being swept along again, I'm not strong enough to resist. I want to be with him but am scared of losing myself again.

LemonDrizzled · 02/08/2012 17:25

Pony he is a horrible man! Read the links at the top of the thread again. There he is!

Now consider. You may have been conditioned to accept this treatment and expect no better. That will become clear to you eventually. But do you want your lovely DC to do the same? If you had a DD in a relationship like this would you want her to keep trying? Working on stuff? Of course not!!

What you described above is who he is. He can disguise himself briefly as Mr Nice for long enough to hook you back in but he will lapse back. That is his problem and his to work on. Yours is to save yourself and your babies from a lifetime of misery with him.

Stay strong!! Keep posting. But don't weaken and give in PLEASE!!!

ponygirlcurtis · 02/08/2012 17:27

Oh, and just yesterday he got all funny about me having been in the flat on my own with my landlord when I was getting the keys, and started asking questions that made me feel very uncomfortable, like 'What does he look like? What's his name? Is he good looking?' It's just the same as it was. Only difference is he did eventually apologise for being like that (but I felt the blame was on me for not being open enough or something...)

And I'm doubly shaken today, just heard that my godmother's daughter has had an awful thing happen to her. Her abusive ex wouldn't return their son (1 year old) after a visit. The police were called but because her DS was 'in a place of safety' at his dad's house and no crime had been committed, the police couldn't intervene and get him back. Ex then reported her to SS for neglect (due to a very normal bump on his head) and took out a court injunction against her. She thinks he's been planning to do this, and having seen the bump saw his opportunity to do it. GM's daughter is desperately trying to get the injunction overturned. She hasn't seen her baby since Sunday. Keep your fingers crossed that this works out, I'm really frightened for her.

ponygirlcurtis · 02/08/2012 17:41

Lemon, you're right, he can be just vile sometimes. But I don't believe he's a horrible person - or at least, I struggle to think of him in those terms. My sister has called him evil, and that makes me feel horrible. But I know I don't want DSs growing up around that. NSDH has two fantastic daughters, and I worry for them. I have used that analogy before, what would he do if one of his girls was seeing a man who did to them what he's done to me. He would, of course, not want them to go anywhere near him again, he admitted. I feel awful because I know I haven't protected my DS1 from this well enough, there were many many times I should've left and protected him from being exposed to this behaviour any more, and I didn't. Sad Sad

I know NSDH is going through a hard time at the moment, the abuse he suffered in childhood has made him into what he is today, and it's about whether he can break free from that. I don't want to give up on him. I want to believe he can do it. I don't know if he can. Sad Sad Sad

Anyway, gotta go do stuff, will post back some more tomorrow - my moving in day! Am excited and scared and weirded out. Eeeeek! Will be Wine o'clock tomorrow night, that's fo' sho'. Have a good evening everyone.

bertiebassett · 02/08/2012 18:47

pony you are doing the right thing by moving into your own place. Please stay strong (((hugs)))

Just out of interest...has he ever been assessed for any type of mental health issues? The extremes in his behaviour (you said even now he's swearing at you one minute and telling you you're beautiful he next) are not normal. You do know this don't you? You (and your DCs) should not have to live with someone who behaves in this way.

The reason i was asking about assessment was that my NSDH was assessed this week. He is now on the waiting list for 'treatment'. He hasn't told me everything they said. However he did say they were concerned when he spoke about how he loses his temper and becomes verbally aggressive. He didn't seem to think that such behaviour would worry the 'authorities' when there is a young child around. He thought that it only 'mattered' if someone was physically violent. He thought that 'arguing' like he does and being 'emotive' is acceptable.

He is wrong...

Stay strong x

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