Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I need help. Nobody else understands what its like, i've tried talking to friends and they don't get it. I'm now losing friends too.
My little boy keeps wanting to be with his dad, he is playing superdad now and is more fun. I'm having a breakdown, trying to hold it together but really struggling. I can't ask for help because I might lose my children
I never got away and my solicitor keeps advising to agree contact between us. We've been doing that for a couple of weeks and now i'm back where i started. I don't want to live anymore. I feel like I might as well just hand the children over, but he won't take them anyway, only when it suits him.
I can't do this anymore. I've been blamed for everything, i'm still stuck in the ex inlaws house. He has managed to prove to everyone that i'm the problem.

amitola I'm here.

I don't know you're story, but keep posting. It's really important that you do.

I (we) believe you
Xx

I'm here too amitola. We believe you, you know your own story better than anyone else. As I've said before, people who don't know what it's like tend to think it might be six of one, half a dozen of the other. It isn't. It really isn't.

amitola I'm listening too.

silver thankyou and sorry too! I will reply just been busy.

So I thought I was making progress. Spoke to WA, listened and decided that I don't want to do this anymore. I've booked counselling for Wednesday, searched right move and found a nice little house, put some money into a bank account.

Then today, fw is being nice. But it's a strange sort of nice. Like I asked him to feed the dog, which he never does, and he did it. But while he was doing it he was saying to her how horrible mummy is for not doing her dinner and when is she going to die anyway. He also kicked her hard earlier and laughed about it but we were on a family walk to the park which we never do! So it's been a bit of nice with a bit of horrid but I've come to bed thinking its been a lovely day! Yet i've written down a few of these nasty comments and there are others I chose to let him get away with because he was probably right (I've been called an idiot a couple of times).

He is also turning things round on me by saying things to dd like "mummy doesn't love me anymore" and today he asked me when we were having another baby. Does any of this sound familiar?? I'm confused again.

amitola, you poor thing. If you need help, you must ask for it, you won't lose your children for something like that. I really understand what you mean, but you must keep going. . Big hugs.

veeeee it all sounds very familiar...

STBXH is very fond of making "mummy doesn't..." comments like that in front of DS...he's also a bit rougher than I'd like with my cat...

I myself was thinking earlier how nice he'd been (offering to do things...kind...thoughtful)... Saying that despite us separating he wanted to look after me while I'm getting over this pneumonia.

Then it suddenly changed this afternoon.

He is no longer going to look after me, or cook meals for me, or help with DS.

It's my fault (apparently) because I said something earlier that upset him (he won't say what).

Luckily tomorrow I have family coming to stay and look after us. And I have fabulous friends who will help out whenever needed.

I don't need this stress with him though...I need to get better

veeee sounds familiar to me, my NSDH uses the 'when are we having another baby' chat too. He shouldn't say things like that to your DD,what on earth is he thinking? for you!

I've not been around much and I apologise. We've been going through our awkward phase still, until today. I stupidly thought I was getting through to him. I THOUGHT things were changing

A few days ago he suggested we go out for the day today as a family. I jumped at the chance as he never suggests that. So we get up early, get packed with a lunch for us all, DD was strapped in her carseat, I was in the car when he suddenly 'remembers' he has to ring Tesco as he's waiting for a refund for something. . 15 mins later and we're still sat in the car while he's on the phone indoors. I was very . But when he gets in the car and I tell him I didn't think this was the right time to make that call (DD was grumpy and screaming) he told me off.

He's driving, I'm navigating. On the way he's sure we're lost and despite me repeatedly telling him we're not he insists on looking at the map. He doesn't trust my judgement. We get to the place we'd planned to go and he goes into dithering-mode. It was a farm park with a restaurant so he says we can't take our picnic in - which is rubbish. I protest and we have a mild row right there by the entrance.

A question here - how are all your NSDH/ex/FWs with taking photographs? Something that really upsets me is that he never has any inclination to take photos of us - especially me. Most of our photos of DD have him in but there are very few of her and me. I have to really pester him to take any, they're always crap and it's like he just doesn't care! It makes me so so so SO .

I asked him to take a pic of me and DD and he takes one from a distance (without the zoom on as apparently he 'can't work it'). I looked at the picture and said it was too far away, so he says "Well you usually tell me I take them too close up" and he walks off. . So that's the only pic I got of me and DD all day.

By this point I was very and so didn't really want to talk to him for the rest of the day, which spoilt what could and SHOULD have been a nice day out. But now I feel it's my fault. He told me I ruined the day and now I'm back to feeling like I hate him. Nothing about his behaviour has changed and it makes me so depressed. All that's happened is that in order for our relationship to work, I can't criticise him ever. He's not said that but that's what he means.

Still waiting for our first app with the Relate councillor and it's been nearly 3 weeks since the referral. Right now I want shot of him forever.

Can someone help me decipher it all please?

Nini: Do not go to counselling with this man. Have counselling separately, or just you.

We too have v few photos, even though he has bought cameras. I should have done it myself - am going to track down photos taken by friends and family when I have the time

You are right in your analysis of the situation. And don't they always put the blame on us? Don't accept the blame! (but no need to tell him that).

Hey silver, how are u? I'm having counselling via work (but I only get a certain amount of sessions and my last one is next week :(). I can't afford anything else.

I'm trying not to accept the blame but you know how it is, years of 'unlearning' the way they make you feel. I am getting better at standing up for myself (so says my counsellor and I agree) but he keeps telling me I'm just being critical/nagging.

Am great, just fine :)

26 days to go till we have to have it all done and dusted. Money for ex coming Weds. Still awaiting deed of house transfer for him to sign - suggested he went into my sol's to sign it on Mon if it didn't turn up - 'there's no hurry, is there?' Sigh!

It is my fault he is untidy, my fault he started smoking again a few years ago, he thinks I am doing nothing up in my room (nothing except the marital accounts, still to complete for my own satisfaction, and trying to do some linguistics and my service user involvement work).

and the odd bit of Mumsnetting

OK (rolls up sleeves) seems like we've all hit a bit of a bumpy bit as the NSDP/H's try to do just enough to get us hooked back in and yet are still making sure that we know that they are really in control and can mess with our minds any time they want to..

Amito. It is easy to be superdad when it's all on your own agenda with lots of breaks and no real responsibility.

^I can't ask for help because I might lose my children^. This is just not true. People who voluntarily seek help with situations do not lose their children. I myself am known to Social services (children reported their father!!!!!) and it has been the most helpful and empowering thing. People who ask for help and support generally get help and support and if you document your concerns about superdad with them there will be a paper trail for the future.

He has not proven to anyone that you are the problem...he is causing the problem and if you can just keep it together until you can get out this will be obvious.

I am concerned about your legal advice. Are you known to Women's Aid locally? it is likely that they will have some family lawyers who do free sessions and you might just go in and check the advice that you are being given.

As for the friends...well anyone who really knows you will know you and will support you. It is amazing how trouble gets rid of people (even those we have supported through hard times ourselves) it is painful but you will truly value those who support you.

we are here for you.

veeeee your FW is NEVER nice...even his nice isn't nice. Stay strong girl. There are some men who can really charm but I would give yours No POINTS for effort or effect or artistic expression. he's just continuing to be manipulating and nasty in a different way. Keep writing things down...funny how your nice day has just turned nasty. Don't be sad, it is good that he keeps showing you who he is. It will keep you strong.

But he doesn't need to know that right, does he silver

Nail on the head as always, Fool.

Nini DO NOT DO COUNSELLING WITH THIS MAN.

You know what he is up to. He is making sure to push your buttons so that you lose it and look like you ruined the day out.....you either have to remain perfectly and emphatically detached (don the teflon overcoat for the resulting input from him) or accept that you are going to react and appear to be the bad one thus setting yourself up to fail and giving your DC this as her inheritance.

I think you should use the time/money for relate to do some individual counselling to work out how to achieve optimum behaviour and whether this involves leaving or staying with him.

Photo's: mine took photos all the time, to the extent that he never experienced anything except through a lens. never downloaded/printed or filed any though....

raa raa silvercat see her streak to the finish line and reclaim her life......hooray.

bertie yes, you need him like a hole in the (ahem) lung...well you've already got non-functioning lung parts so he's definitely best gone. hooray for your family and friends.

Ooops seemed to be neglecting you, veeee. He is downright horrid, his comments at variance with his actions give the lie to those actions. Can you train the dog to bite him?

Thanks Fool. Just out of interest, as people keep telling me not to do counselling with him - can I ask why? Will it just give him more fuel to bait me with? I'm guessing you're speaking from personal experience.

He is being all 'reasonable' tonight. Such mind games these men play!

Here on the hill I await the response to my (extensive and very reasonable) proposals for sorting out the finances...I gave NSDH a range of options so that he could choose (he's unlikely to have actually thought through any ideas for himself) i was due to hear from the mediator but haven't and have another meeting on Tuesday. I am pessimistic that we will achieve anything.

By the way in case any of you are going "mediation?????" to me when it is so frowned on in abuse...I have a mediator who does distant mediation, I go in the morning FWH several hours after I leave. Don't ever agree to mediation in the same room with these men who mess with our heads.

waves at arthritic fingers

As mentioned way upthread, a mediator had to be approached before we could proceed to court. We each got a letter from her the same day, I contacted the mediation place by phone and made an assessment appointment (cost: £100), FWEx did not even make a phone call to them (what, spend £100?), and by the time my appt came round enough time had passed that the mediator could sign us off immediately, and court procedings could go ahead.

Nini yes from experience:

the problem is that you do not have a relationship problem. The counsellor will give equal weight to each of your input. and will assume equal responsibility from both of you to put it right.

Your input will be a minimised version of the truth, down-played so as to seem reasonable to him/her and your partner. making sure that you don't get into trouble later
From him will come an apparently insightful analysis of his problems with you and the outside world with carefully selected nearly true criticisms (what are your weak points...the ones you acknowledge you have trouble with...he'll pick those).

After counselling you will leave feeling unheard, he will leave feeling validated. you will leave shouldering responsibility to change when you are probably already far far from the person you are , he will leave assured that he has asserted his dominance.

if you show any vulnerability it will be used against you cruelly and wilfully.

Very occasionally the counsellor will see the abusive dynamic and should call a halt to the session, but in reality few seem to do this.

Nini A question here - how are all your NSDH/ex/FWs with taking photographs? Something that really upsets me is that he never has any inclination to take photos of us - especially me. Most of our photos of DD have him in but there are very few of her and me. I have to really pester him to take any, they're always crap and it's like he just doesn't care! It makes me so so so SO sad.

Yes, absolutely! My stbxh bought a posh camera (way better than the one he bought me for xmas!) and only ever used it to take photos of every motorbike/car he has owned since, his bikes and various things he has put up for sale on ebay.

My computer photo library is full of pointless photos of household objects and vehicles, but if you looked back in 100 years you would wonder who was the mother of the 3 children shown in all the other pics. Any he did take would always be just the one, with my eyes shut or chopping off my legs in the most unflattering way, whereas i would take several to make sure I got a good one.

H hated having his photo taken so he is usually glowering or turning away in any I have taken of him. Poor DCs will have very little to look back on and remember us by. I always wanted one of those proper family portraits done, but H refused point blank. Maybe now he has left I'll get one of my family now (i.e. me & 3 DCS!)

Also the navigating thing too. H used Sat Nav as he didn't trust my judgment even though I drive round the local area as part of my job! Knob head would drive miles out of his way on main roads as sat nav didn't use the shortcuts, but he reveled in it if ever I didn't know the way.

Agree about not having counselling with someone like him, he will twist things and you will get emotional and end up hating yourself for not being able to articulate exactly how bad things are for you.

veee run like the wind your H sounds like a complete nutter! Sorry. Cruelty to animals is often a gateway to physical violence against humans. Can't recall if he has already been physically abusive to you, but it sounds like he's practicing.

DoingIt, you're so right about cruelty to animals. And I'm sorry for delurking on this thread, but have to say my piece.

My worry is, that a hard kick from a strong man can rupture a pet's organ, or kill him/her.

I know you are in frightening situations, and thus this is very difficult. But please do anything you can think of to keep your pets out of harm's way, even consider having them fostered for a time if you have to. They are defenceless, like your DCs. Vets also take a dim view if they think an animal might have suffered abuse ? I think they know what injuries to look for.

Some links which may help where pets are in danger, or where women need to leave but are concerned about their animals:

Women's Aid - Pet fostering in DV cases

Refuge ? What About Pets

I'm in no way trying to say a pet is more important than people on this thread, nothing like that. I hope no-one is upset by the above, and will now leave you in peace.