Support for those in Emotionally abusive relationships number 10

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

silver your post has quite upset me. Of course I understand that sex is better without condoms! However, I get molested on a daily basis, I have to have sex with him at least every 4 days because his nasty behaviour escalates until I do. I do it despite telling him repeatedly I don't want to, he is rough with me, forces me to kiss him etc etc. and period time is the only time I get a little respite because he finds it repulsive.

bertie I hope you've called someone for help this morning. Please don't try and push yourself to do things, you really do need to rest so that you can recover. I'm sorry FW is being a FW. It's sad that we see them being "good" for a little while and it gets our hopes up only to find they're back to normal after a few days.

veeee that was the last thing I wanted to do, thanks so much for sharing his icky and repulsive behaviour, I am so sorry you are going through this, that is sexual abuse.

Hi all, hope you don't mind me crashing in on this thread found it yesterday, and spent some time reading through the links in the OP, and found them really helpful. And you all seem to be finding strength and have really inspired me.

I've also read some of the most recent posts, and feel like my problems are small in comparison, but would like to share them, to find out if you think I should even be on this board, if you don't all mind?? Hope this isn't too long...

So: bit of background... Have been with my partner for just over ten years. We have a son, nearly two, and another baby on the way (we have a non existent sex life, and the first pregnancy was a result of a condom splitting on holiday, the second pregnancy only the second time we'd had sex since the birth of our son, and we didn't use any contraception. Feel so stupid, but really, who else gets pregnant so easily?!).

This has all come to a head over a few minor things that have made me think.

First he accused me of not being a 'friend' to his mum. We were a lot closer at one time, but I backed off, because he started accusing me of 'ganging up against him' with her. He took me for a drive (DS fell asleep), and unleashed this torrent of abuse that had me in tears.

Second, a couple of nights ago he woke me up wafting the duvet, because he was hot. I was pissed off about being woken up as I've been insomniac during this pregnancy, but then he totally overreacted, I thought he was going to hit me, but he just shouted 'I really fucking hate you!' and went downstairs to sleep. I lay awake all night, thought about his past behaviour, and decided, 'you know what, I don't love you'. It made me think about how he has hit me twice before, and once pinned me against the wall, but this was some time ago (most recent time, five years ago). Alcohol was involved one of the times when he hit me, and I can't remember much about it, the pinning against the wall was because I said I was leaving him. Also, just after our son was born, he went really mental and shouted and screamed and I was really scared and he said he'd never wanted to have a child.

Third, He's never had a job since we've been together (I've just learnt he's called a cocklodger! What a great word!) , but is meant to be starting a small business. Until recently, I stupidly paid for part time child care for our son, which crippled us financially (so much so, that we're living with his parents, because this ate into our savings), so that he could have time to do some 'reading' (he did a PhD, and this was meant to be part of him getting an academic job). He isn't doing much towards getting this business up and running, and I just feel so stupid. He blames me for everything. Apparently I haven't been supportive enough about the business, and he has to do too much to look after our son (he puts him to bed, but I do the laundry, make lunches and dinner, usually breakfast). However, it was me who wrote the business plan for him. All he has to do now is carry out some market research and put the basic administrative details in place.

Fourth: but maybe what's hurt me the most recently is that he hasn't told most of his family, or his best friend, that I'm pregnant. I'm nearly 20 weeks now, and after he got off the phone to his best mate yesterday I said 'Did you tell x we're having another baby', and he got really defensive and said 'no, he wouldn't be interested'.

So, sorry this was long. Is my partner abusive, or just a twunt? He is great now with our son, and loves him a lot, and says he's the best thing that ever happened to him, but not consistent, and forgets to tend to his basic needs. Don't know if I could manage on my own, or would it just be easier? I have to say that when I think about leaving, I feel free inside.

Thanks if you made it this far xxx

PS: have thought of another relevant point... he was so paranoid and insecure at the start of the relationship about me finding other blokes attractive, and accused me of so much stuff, that now, whenever I talk to a bloke who is even reasonably attractive, I go bright red, I just feel so self conscious. That's not normal is it?

Hi Super and welcome. Sorry you have to be here. Yes you do have to be here, sorry.

Yes he is abusive. Sounds like at least two different personalities he has there, each fighting against the other one. He won't change unless he volunteers to get help and he will always blame you.
Yes you can manage on your own, but I would suggest trying to set up lots of support before the baby arrives. I'm on my own with 2 little ones and it is hard work and very exhausting. You need to have time to rest, people to talk to and for him not to be causing too much stress.

I'm actually the same with attractive men, can't remember when it started but at some point i must have subconsciously started to believe i was a tart and a did want to have sex with other people

Thank you, Amito and Hilde, your kind posts made me cry! Yes, being on my own scares me, a lot. I've been in serial long term relationships since I was 18 (33 now). The only real option I can see is moving back home with my mum, but she is a bit toxic, and mad. I would however have the support of my lovely brother who lives nearby (and lots of other family members). I am very close to him, and he is great.

Actually, something my brother said the other day about my mum made me think about my partner. My brother was talking about how he takes loads of shit from my mum but that I'm stronger and don't. He said that he's just like 'yes, shit on me, tell me I'm crap'. But afterwards, I thought, I'm actually like that with my partner.

Hopefully I could get work, over where my family live and my mum could help with some childcare til I got on my feet. Plus she has a gorgeous garden and lives in a lovely area... So much more appealing than the grotty two bed flats that are in my price range near where my family live! But it would drive me mad living with her.

Amito, I am so glad to know I'm not the only one who blushes, but, also, I do want sex with other men! I haven't had sex more than 10 times in the past six years, since when we moved in together properly (I am not counting the times when he has had sex with me when I was asleep, something which thankfully doesn't happen anymore). For a long time, I blamed myself for this. Especially as he looked at a lot of porn at the time (he doesn't look at much now). I put on weight, which I lost after the birth of my DS, as suddenly I felt quite amazing and powerful, and I came to realise that actually I am attractive. So that doesn't bother me much now, but I do worry that if I leave him, I'd never meet anyone else, because I'm so shy around men now. And who would want to be with someone with two little kids? Would I just end up with another knob? But anyway, this wouldn't be my priority.

Hilde, it's heartening to hear that your NSDH (don't know what this means) is trying to change. I don't know if mine would ever try to change. I try and be reasonable, and have stopped ever apportioning blame for trivial things in order to focus on bigger problems, but he just doesn't want to hear it.

Finally, one more bit of background, my dad died one month after the birth of my son, and since then I've been much more aware of how you only get one chance at life. I've tried my best to make it work, but don't know now whether to give him one last chance and see if he makes a success of this business, or to leave now. I feel if I don't give him a last chance, then I'm depriving my children of a dad. OTOH, I don't want any more time to pass.

Thanks again xxx It feels so good to get these things off my chest! xxx

Veeeee - I?m sorry to read about the sexual roughness/ forcing etc, there is no grey area there IMO, verbal abuse is a lot ?fuzzier?. I hope you?re ok.

Bertie, I hope you have got someone to look after you, I bet you are like the rest of us and never look after yourself, you need to be minded!

Super, there are certainly big flashing warning signs there re an abusive relationship (the sex when asleep thing ) , as Hilde said, you need to think about whether you love him, whether you can work on the issues, whether he will work on himself, all that stuff..

This thread is amazing for support and honesty and hearing other people?s stories, have to say its been a godsend for me and a huge impetus to sort my shitty life out. Does sound to me that you are in the relationship for various reasons that piled up due to circumstances and that you don?t really love each other ? but only you and he can decide what your future is..
hilde so glad to hear things are improving, same in my house, I don?t know why to be honest, perhaps he took me seriously this time when we had ?the conversation?? He has mentioned that my seeing the counsellor has made me a bit ?nicer? and ?less naggy? ? but I think its because I finally realised that his problems are not my problems and I?ve just backed off completely and stopped asking/ begging/ harassing him to be a better man, husband, father. As a result, we are getting on so much better. It feels very strange.

You are all allowed to smile sadly and think ?ah yes, she?ll be back on here soon sobbing and asking to know why it has all gone horribly wrong because he went drinking and called her a stupid nagging cunt again?.

I saw the counsellor again last night and it was really helpful, we spoke about the patterns of behaviour on both of our parts that started the rot in our relationship and the external circumstances that have influenced FWH?s spiral into anger and abuse. Now if only he would do the same analysis of himself and our relationship. In the meantime I continue to assume that by the end of the year I will have called it quits, having done everything I could. Even that mindset makes me feel better day to day.

STBX = soon to be ex

Hope everyone else is as well as can be expected and enjoying some sunshine.

Hi Super, yes he's abusive and yes, he's a twunt! I'm out, I escaped three and a half years ago, and I wish I'd known about Mumsnet then. I stay around on here to give advice and support, and sometimes I need my own. Anyway, welcome!

From the little I've read about you, you are suffering financial, physical (in the past), emotional and verbal abuse. This is not acceptable. Most of us on here are suffering or have suffered this abuse, so we understand. One of the things that drove me to leave was my DS (he was 2 at the time I left). I didn't want him growing up thinking this sort of behaviour was normal, and he in turn treating his future partners like that.

You say your only choice is to go back to your 'toxic' mum, but it isn't. There is Women's Aid, and they are wonderful people and will help you any way they can. I went to a WA refuge for 18 months, as I had nothing and nowhere to go, and I can't praise WA enough. Give them a call at least, please.

You said it yourself, you only get one chance at life. Do you (and others reading this) want to realise at 80 yrs old that they could have been so happy, and instead are still with the wanker? Do you really want to suffer this abuse till you're that old (and older)? Please do something about it now, it is very hard at first, but it is seriously worth it! I have never been so happy as I am right now

Hi super

My opinion is that he is abusive. I would suggest you contact WA or consider moving on with your DM.

Also consider counselling...not only might it help you deal with twunt and the relationship you thought you had... it may also help you deal with your relationship with your DM.

I'm doing ok everyone. STBXH has done his usual trick of saying one thing and then changing his mind the next day. Today he is unselfish twunt. In the meantime friends are popping in tonight & tomorrow and the shopping has been delivered so I should be ok.

I have to say this behaviour is not helping my recovery. Friends have suggested that one reason I've got pneumonia is that my body is worn down with the constant stress of dealing with him.

The problem is I now have to wait until I get better before I tackle the next stage of separation with him...what are we going to do with the house and who's going to move out.

That's going to be a fun conversation isn't it ?

Hey all, it's been a while since I've been on, or even had much of a chance to read what's been happening with everyone else. Hello to the new people, of which there are, as ever, sadly a fair few. Bertie, am sorry to hear that things have gotten to this point for you, have you got someone else to help you in your recovery?

My situation is ongoing, as ever. Having left NSDH about 2.5months ago, we've been working on things in a fairly positive way in the last 6 weeks or so (although it's not been a total rose garden). I'm still at my parents' house but finally due to move into a flat with my two DSs next week. However, NSDH has now decided, after all this time, and my own place having been my plan since day one of leaving, that he can't afford to stay in our family home (which he refused to move out of to let me stay there), and if I don't agree to move back and work on things from within the relationship instead of from outside, then it's over. I know he's being manipulative, and I know it comes from a place of panic that he's losing me and not coping with all that's going on. But the thing is he is really struggling - he's started telling me some stuff from his childhood, and it's fair to say that his dad was a horrible bully. His mum not much better. I'm really upset by some of the things he's told me, and I want to support him - his family have abandoned him to his fate, he's got no-one. On the one hand, I feel that me getting my own place is what's right for me (and will help us too), on the other I want to help him with what he's going through and I don't want us to be over. Part of me really, really wants to move home and help him, and work on things, but I'm scared it'll be like it was. Spoke to Health Visitor this afternoon, she agrees with me that I'm not ready to go back yet, and he's not yet changed enough for it to work. Am I deluding myself that I can salvage any of this?

Ponygirl Don't Do It!
I did and it was the most horrible disaster and wasted another year of my life :(

Thank you for all the great supportive comments.

And I feel like a bit of an arse, not giving any myself! It's hard to comment when I'm so new to thinking about all this myself, but I'm hoping that you're all dealing with everything ok, you all seem strong!

So, I had another big cry when I read your latest comments, then rang my brother, told him I wasn't happy. Thing is, now I've got an overwhelming feeling that I want to take it all back! Tell my brother it's all fine, delete my MN account... Is this denial? Is it normal?

Got to go now, DS wants me

Lots of love and xxxxx

SuperBabysMum it's a bit like waking up. No need to rush things, just tread water for now, and post when you want. I had a cocklodger, managed to survive till both kids were young adults, but wouldn't recommend it.

Ponygirl - please don't. I left my X after about 5 yrs of marriage, but he begged me to go back, said he'd changed, made a huge effort, cried and so on. I really felt sorry for him. So I went back. It was the biggest mistake of my life, because he was lovely for a week or two, then the old stuff started creeping back in, and before you know it he was worse than ever. What was more, he then believed that I would never leave him, as I came back once before. Just please don't go back, please.

Super it's a terrifying time once you realise that someone else (especially if it's family) knows what's going on in the relationship. You will want to deny it all, you will want to prove to the NSDH how much you love him, you will do want to do anything to make it work. This is guilt. Try not to let it in. Guilt will stop you from moving on, guilt will prevent you from being yourself, and guilt will allow your NSDH to do pretty much anything he chooses because you feel sorry for him. Don't panic, and more importantly, don't beat yourself up. Take your time, get used to the idea of a different better life, and see how you feel about it.

PonyGirl I went back too, after he told me a load of sob stories and put on his poor-little-boy act. A fortnight later he was back to being a Grade A Arsehole and I realised I felt nothing for him apart from anger. I realised that he was entirely in charge of his behaviour - I was perfectly able to control myself and not shout at him/hit him or whatever, so why couldn't he do the same?

Is your ex having counselling? Or is he just saying he's changed? I would be EXTREMELY wary of any statements that he's changed in such a short period of time, especially if he hasn't been seeing a counsellor. This kind of behaviour has taken a long time to develop - it follows that it'll take a fair while to undo successfully. Please don't get dragged back in because he's making threats - which is what saying "it's over unless you do X, Y or Z" is. That's not the sign of a loving partner.

Ponygirl, its really hard to say this but i wouldn't advise going back either, not with children too. I'm completely on my own, had a terrible childhood and completely struggling at the moment. I would give anything to have someone care enough to want to help me. To think of someone else feeling like that is horrible, but he treated you very badly and that is very likely to start again.
Signpost him to help, offer advice, live where you want and leave it up to him how he deals with his problems now

Much harder to leave if you've gone back before.

He can work on his issues and show sustained change (we're talking 1-2 years here) without you going back, and if he's genuine he won't make you going back a condition of his change.

Hi all (and profuse apologies again veeee)

Getting there, cocklodger's money has just been sorted and will be going into our joint account on Monday, all being well. Deed of transfer not yet arrived, will chase that on Mon if nothing turns up.

27 days

Good news, Silver. Fingers crossed for it all being finally over for you.

Thanks for your advice ladies. I know you're all right. The Health Visitor told me the same. But I am apparently completely stupid because I'm still considering it. Me and NSDH had a brilliant evening together on Thursday. That seems to happen so often, just when I'm at breaking point... and I know that's the pattern. It was emotional, heartbreaking, almost like we were saying goodbye, and then we clawed it back. So now he's still push-pushing about me going back, not taking the flat, despite me having tried so hard to be firm and say I'm taking it. It gets harder and harder to be firm, I know I'm being worn down. I'm allowing it, because I do want to go home and have everything be great. If only that was a guarantee. I've agreed that me and the boys are going there for an overnight stay tonight - I haven't let either of the boys stay over there without me yet. I'm really looking forward to it, but I'm also partly hoping that he completely effs it up and gets drunk and yells at me, so I can be definite about not moving back yet. Not good, I know. I've spent the last three days in horrible turmoil, hurtling back and forth between being utterly certain I'm taking the flat and being utterly certain I'm moving home. I'm exhausted. And hating myself for being an idiot, and hating myself even more because I know I'm going to end up going back... But I also know that if I do, it's my own journey I have to make, my own mistakes. Maybe I need to know that I've given him another chance, so when he mucks it up and I have to leave again, it's definitely for good. Maybe I'm just excusing myself for making bad decisions that are avoidable, if only I'd man (woman) up. Anyway. All i know at the moment is that my head is screwed. When I'm with him, it feels clear I should go back. When I'm away from him, it's not so clear.

So. We'll see what happens today, tonight, tomorrow. I'll try and report back tomorrow or Monday. I'm supposed to taking over the flat on Wednesday or later this week, it really is down to the wire. How can I be so looking forward to being with him today, and yet going on like this about how bad I feel because I'm considering moving home? I feel like an embarrassment of a person, of a mother.

pony if they were all bad you would never have loved him, if it was all bad you wouldn't have stayed...but it was bad enough wasn't it. The longer you remain with emotional abuse the more of yourself you lose, the harder it is to see yourself as a separate entity.

The more skilled your abuser is the more practised and the calmer he is the more carefully he will play the good guy to reel you back in.

please be careful and try to look objectively at your story. Could you read back your previous posts and save them onto a document somewhere? There is nothing like looking at the objective truth to keep the emotions balanced.

At the end of the day we are all here whatever.

fingers you ok? Hope you are enjoying the Olympics here on home turf.

Hi Fool for message!
I am ok. It is great to be in London!
Work is going well, my DDs are coming over next week :)!
More good news is that I started counselling last Monday. I was a bit nervous - given the horror stories in Lundy and on here, BUT she seems wonderful it is the first time I have actually spoken to anyone about FW (except on here). It was so great to be believed and taken seriously :) Really looking forward to the next session!
FW's silence is still deafening! He is too busy playing super-dad to talk to me about DD1's birthday present - or about their travel arrangements.
As the girls might say - 'whatever ...'
How about you, Fool any luck with moving towards an arrangement that yo feel is workable?

fool that was a very wise post

Can you keep reminding us about "if they were all bad..."

It's so easy to wobble...

I mean !