Turning Tavern IV - Down Bi the riverside, near the well of loneliness...

[NotForProfit]

Hi all,

thought i'd be proactive and start a new thread for the wenches of the turning tavern as the old thread's pretty much full...

for anyone new to this, it's a thread for women suddenly finding themselves attracted to another woman, so grab a glass of something intoxicating, pull up a chair by the fireside and we'll try to help one another deal with the elation, confusion and heartache of rediscovering your sexuality.

thought, not 'though' obv, a few times!

NotFor - I'd advise you not to let the crush get in the way for extending your friendship beyond work colleagues who get along. This doesn't need to be the time to spill the beans but an opportunity to talk as friends about your loves (talk about your DH, ask about her DP), your likes (talk about the work do, what you liked about it) and if she does know that you fancy her (as Likea suggests), surely in light of your openness, she will let you know.

And if she doesn't let you know, have a drink after work next week and the following week. One step at a time. Get her intrigued!

Loveis - I think my WIQ and I are very much on the same wavelength with regard to the future. It's sexual, sensual and its emotional between us. It fills the gaps that there are between me & DH but won't take over. All those things that niggled me about DH, don't matter anymore. Since getting up close & personal with WIQ, I love her female-ness but equally I love my DH male-ness more.

Hi Outmy and everyone,

I'm not too bad thanks. Have had a busy and quite fun weekend, which helped to take my mind off things. Hope you're all keeping well.

Likea - I flipflop from thinking your direct approach is best, to thinking i should go in Happytit's proposed direction. Either way, the idea of telling her I fancy her is quite petrifying at present. Like i say, I do have moods where it seems the best thing to do, but others where I think she might be scared by my being so direct, and that if we can build something up gradually, she might secretly like the way things are going.

Happytit - your posts sometimes make me wonder if parallel worlds exist, and if you just happen to be inhabiting my ideal one! Shame I'm stuck in this one in the meantime . the way you write is very involving

hi outmy, have you been on a break (which you deserve) or long working hours again? been waiting for you to read my last posts about wiq to you for days, but seems you haven't noticed them! - do comment when yo uhave time.
NotFor - you aer getting into something really messy and dark - why?? tyr to detach and waiting for CW to appear again. I suggested being more direct purely as in her case(partner and pg) she is extremely unlikely to be gotting involved with you, and if you take gradual build-up approach, which means hoping and putting effort into it, you'll become really involved and obsessed (like outmy and me, but at least we had more chance as our wiqs ar single) - and it will drag on making you a wreck. You have another option possibly woith CW who you like, again a great piece of luck, so try to step back or ask wiq more directly (shje won't be scared as she already joked about being hr fan etc and i think kjnows you aer bi, doesn't she) so that you can move on quicker.

*try to detach and wait

likea -not sure why it's 'dark' necessarily, but yes, agree with messy. the last thing I want to do is make it more so.

outmy - don't worry, i'm realising that the last thing i'm going to do is demand any information from her. ideally i'd like to keep things light and breezy with a subtle, playful undertone that things could be more, at some stage, if that's what she wanted. i don't want to seem over-keen or like i've been over-thinking things!

NotFor - light and breezy yes but don't forget you need to get to the bottom of whether she's toying with you whether you do that in the first one to one or the next. (Oh please explain use of "involved" when talking about how I write...I'm intrigued).

Hoping things are ok with you Cao

Hi all
still here and reading with interest.
still no WIQ (sobs)
good luck and much love to you all

Happytit - as in a bit of a turn-on oh god, when did i turn into a hairy trucker?! Speaking of which, I was wondering if my fancying someone as inappropriate as WIQ might be a sign of some wider problem in my psyche... I mean, of all the women to get a crush on, she's probably singularly the worst person I could have chosen, both for the reasons i've already given on this thread, and some others which would surely out us both instantly.

Not saying that there's anything wrong with my own proper awakening of my bisexuality of course, i'm glad that it's happened just curious that it has manifested itself in this particular woman.

NotFor - turn-on? really? not intentional! Don't give yourself a hard time about choice of WIQ. We should all learn from our life experiences but never with regret. If you've realised she's not the best choice and your one to one with her does deliver answers, it'll be time to move on. You deserve the best eh?

Hi everyone:) Welcome back SQUASHED!! Feel free to jump in anytime,more the merrier!!
NOTFOR, have you had the chat yet? I wouldnt worry about your WIQ,you cant always help who you develop these horrid crushes for
LIKEA, hope your ok? Not like you to be absent from the thread, hope everything went ok when your WIQ returned:)

hi outmy - I described in detail on the day she was leaving on holiday - it was directed at you mainly, this was on the 9th-10th, there are a few posts of mine with some comments from others, but not from you. It was you who were away for a while ! I haven't beeen away from thread - responded to NotFor but no one posted anything else since, as my wiq was away didn't have any news. I'm still at hers as she is back today, I hope to see her but going back this eve.

I know i was away from thread:) I thought your WIQ was due back before now, i was just concerned that something might have happened, as you usually post when you have seen her, but you obviously haven't seen her yet. Fingers crossed.
As for your WIQ, i dont think she is being off with you cause she has looked at that laptop memory. It just doesn't make sense,to behave so distant but still keep you on to look after her pets,not if she had another option. Her body language doesn't sound great, but from an outsiders point of view,it actually doesn't sound any more negative than it has at other times to be honest. I think its more to do with her being quite a closed person at times, and seemingly VERY hormonal!! It wouldn't surprise me if she came back off holiday and was all over you this time,because she does seem to swing from one extreme mood to the other with you at times. I would be VERY surprised if she had found this thread. It wouldn't surprise me if she'd had a bit of a nose,but i dont think that she would have looked that much in depth,as to an outsider who isnt used to mumsnet, it really would have looked like a needle in a hay stack,and i know that this thread has the word 'BI' in the title, but its very much in context in the sentance,and it may not have even registered with her that it had been spelt 'BI' instead of 'BY'. I probably wouldnt have picked up on it straight away, and you dont give a whole lot away just on this thread alone as to who you are.
She would have to have found the previous tavern threads as well to have really known about your background as a poster and to have linked your situations.When i joined mumsnet,i wouldnt have known about previous threads etc

I also dont think you are pushing anything on to her. Yes,she may well know you like her,but you are not intrusive towards her in any way, and she can also be very forthcoming with the vibes towards you if she is in the right mood, so its not you:)
Good that she hasn't gone on holiday with 'THE MAN' :(
I do understand about you stepping back,for peace of mind and not wanting to be more direct if you feel its the wrong time,just make sure that you wont feel regret also in a few months time for not speaking out now,like you do at the moment for not speaking out sooner. Its impossible to know what to do for the best sometimes:(

Likea - hope things are ok with you and WIQ when she gets back today.

Outmy (Outme? have you changed the spelling?) Yes, we met today. I didn't want to say too much on here beforehand in case it didn't happen.

It was quite a weird experience actually. From a body-language perspective, she was sort of almost next to me at the table, but turned towards me, so very close, sort of leaning in for much of the time. I, on the other hand felt very distracted throughout, and rather than turning my body towards her, I was sort of flitting between turning my head in her direction and looking straight ahead.

I felt less attracted to her today than I have done previously, and I don't know if that was because my eye contact was less sustained or whether it was less sustained because I felt less attracted to her.

We talked about work stuff for a bit. Then she spoke in a very affectionate way about her dp and how she had deliberately cut down on the social side of things at work in order to spend more time with him, recently. Which figures. We spoke about our childhoods and it seems we were very similar as children, which made me feel closer to her, but not sure if that's in a platonic way? Oh and she mentioned some gay people in her family, and how she's glad as it means nothing she can do can shock her parents! But I thought about how it might put extra pressure on her to be 'the straight one', at the same time. I did wonder for a second whether she was expecting me to volunteer something about my bisexuality at that juncture. But it didn't really feel like the right time. I can't quite put my finger on why...

I had a genuinely nice time actually, just not quite what I was expecting to feel. In any sense.

Hi, NOTFOR, yes had to re-do my registration.Long story, but closest i could get to my old name, as that one is still registered to old account. Well done for noticing:o
Your WIQ continues the mixed messages then! What is it with these WIQ fgs
On one hand, talking affectionately about her partner i would have taken as her trying to subtly tell you to back off, and yet,she sits really close to you(knowing you like her),turned towards you, deliberately talking about gay people in her family. I would have assumed from that that she was hoping you would volunteer something also in terms of your sexuality.
It does sound like a pleasant get-together, but it just doesn't make sense and i would still stay on your guard with her in terms of what you say to her incase she is still trying to manipulate you in some way for her ego:(
Good that you felt like your feelings were cooling slightly,hope it lasts for you.Wont be long before CW is back on the scene!!

thanks, outmy - I was always amused ny outme (thought you are trying to be a cockney ) as a bit of irony, being from the north. Glad you had a break - you sound more cheerful! how is it going emotionally? I may be soon joining you in trying to extinguish my feelings for wiq so I wonder how are you coping - is it easier or harder than you thought?
wiq got back today but bloody hell when i arrived to her place thinking it would be her and one another person - insetad there were FIVE people there haninging around, one soon left, then she had to spend time with another to explain something, then she left too, and there was still unexpectedly one of her grown up dc around though not in same room as us but within earshot. I had limited time before catching my train so with all this had about 20 min with her one to one, She was a bit stressed and distracted first obviously, and cold-ish, but once it was the two of us in the room she did warm up and was nice, though no obvious flirtiness, i suppose with her dc nearby couldn't get into that mood (I mean things she did before with the long looks etc). She did smile a lot by the end as i tried my best to soften her by being pleasant and generally when it's just us there is a harmony of some sort descending very soon. I did enjoy that brief moment, but had to go and now will only see her in 10 days . I gave her a small birthday present and a card with a compliment in it - I wonder what she thinks of that, she hasn't read it there andthen as it's not her b-day yet, but she might have read this eve, even though the present would be waiting - I wonder what she makes of that. I'm building up to telling her - I now feel i want to. It's sort of came to crunch time and I had a challenging discussion with my male friend who told ne this was 'unrealistic and unhealthy' and she sounds like she has no desire to get into commitment with anyone, man or woman, and she sounds like she wants her free life (I told him about her active social life and dating a few men) - I sort of want to either prove him wrong, or if he is right, I do agree that it 's getting unhealthy. So I will ask, and the comliment in the card is supposed to prepare her a little bit for what's coming. It wasn't sexual, more on romantic lines, but no 'love' signed obv! if shedid read it, no answer so far (by text I mean). outmy (can i still use old name?) she will easily know who i am if she did read the thread - it;s the pets situation and mentioned the city and the dates exactly those that she went away for, and description of her dating the man, and mentioning her dc (both) - of course she will know. But I agree that the title of the thread is not immediately noticeable so hopefully not. Or - she could have read it but decided to ignore the whole thing thinking it will go away iykwim.
NotFor - by 'dark' I meant obsessive emotions and the doubts that do your head in, as we can testify with outm.She still sound manipulative I'm afraid - it's just her nature (we may be all to some extent, but she is very much so). She put herself in a safe position mentioning her dp, but then was obviously egging you on to admit to your gay feelings by talking about the gays and how nothing would shock parents (read: nothing would shock her if YOU confessed) so tried to put you in a more vulnerable postion by opening up, maybe this put you off doing it! I don't know why she wants to know though - is it genuine bi-curiousity, or isit ego trip or just something to boast to people about.

outmy - don't leave the thread this week for long please as I need support more than usual right now building up to telling her, and i feel like you are very thoughtful with your replies - plus you ve been through similar, so if it goms all bad at least yo know exactly how it feels (unfortunately). I felt extrenely low about the whole thing in the morning, then once i saw her and she relaxed in the end i felt elated again, surge of feelings (stupid really but the fact remains) - it's a bloody rollercoaster. I was on the train and thinking I can't take it - felt so elated for seeing her that I thought I will text her there and ten, but ten thought no, she is tired, been travelling all day and her son is there and it's just selfish to impose on this kind of day. But if she says something about my card within next couple of days or on b-day, I'm thinking of telling her more. If though she doesn't and just thanks for hte present - do you think it means she doesn't want to encourage the sentiments (it was only one sentence in the card but it was still a compliment that people use either for a good friend or to someone htey aer in love with)? so if no comment on that, do you think I should persist and still tell her in a message, or wait ten days till i see her?

*i was also amused (your new name)

Likea, FWIW I reckon if you asked most men what their experience of getting "mixed messages" from women was, they'd say it meant the women weren't interested. And that it's almost never obvious when she is.

However....

I have several times thought I was making my interest very obvious to men. Either they either noticed but weren't interested, so nothing happened. Or they didn't notice because I wasn't obvious enough, so nothing happened. Several of those I have got together with have been genuinely surprised that it was happening.

We are just very hard to read, including to each other.

sorry that doesn't help does it?!