Turning Tavern IV - Down Bi the riverside, near the well of loneliness...

[NotForProfit]

Hi all,

thought i'd be proactive and start a new thread for the wenches of the turning tavern as the old thread's pretty much full...

for anyone new to this, it's a thread for women suddenly finding themselves attracted to another woman, so grab a glass of something intoxicating, pull up a chair by the fireside and we'll try to help one another deal with the elation, confusion and heartache of rediscovering your sexuality.

ah, it seems she's reasonably positive. I got a 'yes. ok...' sort of response. didn't take long to reply. looks like we'll be meeting next week. i think i may have given the impression it's work-related, but surely after all that's happened she must guess what i'm after?! i feel as though i've been utterly blatant, but maybe i haven't come across that way?! god knows...

that's funny likea - we x posts so i hadn't even read your reply but it seems we're worried about the same things - one minute I feel like i may as well have a neon sign on my head with 'i heart wiq' written on it, and the next i think 'oh god i'm misleading her, making it sound as though i have some really important business to discuss with her, she'll be really pissed off when she realises it's just about some silly crush i've developed.' hard to know how much your wiq guesses...all depends on the internet history business ultimately, or how perceptive she is with your emotions.

yes, it's ridiculous how wrong can you get it in these situations! I just don't get it why my wiq was at times so blatantly looking at me etc (granted, more so after drinking) yet never said/asked anything, never prompted me to say, as if it meant nothing all those looks. I think we may have a similar situation where wiqs do feel some attraction but both aer not going to act on it for different reasons, and to be honest it also means that their attraction to us is not all consuming . Mine especially have really nothing to lose if she tried - even if we fallen out as a reason (it all went wrong) her life would be quickly back to nornal so why not even try? your of course is far worse as far as what she;s got to lose.

*has really

fall out as a result

Loveis - my WIQ had snogged & fondled other women and knew I'd had previous relationships with women either monogamously or when I also had BFs. She has feelings for me and I for her but it will always be with one rule: our DHs and DCs are our first priority.

Likea, NotFor - That sense of not stepping forward for fear of rejection is very common where the WIQ is acting straight. I needed to put myself in the gay scene to be sure any advances were not rejected.
My WIQ says she had feelings for me for 6months or more before we kissed and during that time, I felt a chemistry, fantasized about getting it on but didn't act as I had put all of my desire for women into a box behind me.
ultimately it was the closeness and openness of our friendship and her bravery that took us to the next step.

Happy, so did you never get it wrong and got rejected? also I know your wiq was brave but you probably gave her lots of vibes and looks, would you approach someone who was very on and off with that?
Being single I couldn't get involved with a married woman, I couldn't control how I may feel and not having an H I couldn't have just snatched moments or be a secret, that's why I'm so concerned anout wiq's bf even though I don't know where they aer going with it.

Happy - sorry, more curiosity but did your WIQ know about your past history (with women) before the vibes even started or did they kick off once she knew you were open to women in that way? As the one who hadn't had prior experience I was possibly (sub-consciously) more open to my WIQ because I knew she'd had r-ships with other women. Also her relaxed attitude to sexuality helped.
Likea - my WIQ said she wouldn't ever get involved with a married woman and I never imagined I would ever fall for a woman so you can never predict these things Hope you can start to get some sort of closure on your WIQ if you think it's not going to happen. Out of interest, are you now more open to the idea of being with a woman now or do you think you will go back to men if it doesn't work out with WIQ?

Likea, so difficult to say how I'd behave. Never been in your situation but if I were you, single, wanting a relationship with a woman, I'd get out there either in RL or I guess on-line and test the water with someone who wants the same. That way any rejection is based on type, personality not sexuality.

I hear your view that you couldn't get involved with a married woman; for me this is the perfect option as I'd never want to jeopardise my DCs family life with their wonderful father. My sexuality is pretty fluid. I love to be with both WIQ and DH for me finding a match, a real connection isn't about what's betwween your legs!

it wasn't a criticism at all Happy as for you it's ideal that you aer both married with understanding partners! obviously a small risj that one of you becomes to intense/emotional and goes off your H, but not likely to be you!
The thing with new posters is that they don't read all the threads so I'm repeating myself, but I'm like Loveis - I'm wasn't attarcted to women before (apart from very mild curiousity wondering whether i'd enjoy a kiss, but justa couple of women, and I'm just over 40! - never anywhere strong emough to act on it, mainly preoccupied with stream of boyfriends). My uesr nanme reflects that fact that I never expected this to happen and it just hit me with this woman. I don't have any desire to get out there and meet women - I mean if suddenly it happens maybe, but I'm not gay and I'm not off men sexually. Loveis - I may go back to men, but at the moment I don't feel like it, will be probab;ly single for a while. I'm still not sure whether I should tell wiq after all, I actually think I will (in a note which was planning to do in June, but then things escalated with her new man and I felt very unconfident) - do you think I should? it could be non dramatic but it is doing my head in that she MIGHT be interested as some posters say here that they are capable of putting things in a box, so maybe she needs someone to intiate. I'd just feel very stupid and embarrassed if she doesn't feel abything and even may not guessed that I do (though the last one I really doubt, I think shedoes know).

Loveis, I was really upfront from the word go in our friendship. I knew that we would be significant in each others lives, just didn't know in what way. Therefore openness was there from the beginning and the vibes followed. I wasn't looking for this, I was happily married (and am happily married still) but I'm so glad I found it or it found me!

No criticism taken, Likea. Its very difficult to catch up on each posters situation. I have misread your obvious frustration.

Happytit - your situation sounds exactly what I would want with my WIQ in an ideal world. I don't know how much you've read about my situation, but it's complex and very difficult to read her feelings. i've managed to work up the courage to ask her to meet up 'just the two of us' next week. I have felt quite blatant over the past two months since my crush started and have been sure she must guess that i've suggested this because I fancy the pants off her.

However, having bit the bullet and asked her, I now have no idea what the heck i'm going to say to her or what to do, or whether she'll assume it's work-related and be really shocked/offended when she finds out it isn't. I feel like i need to know how she feels about me, so i can stop torturing myself, but i'm not sure how to find out, or how to cope with rejection... or whether I should just use the opportunity to try to take the flirting to another level? (but how?) all help and tips very welcome!

And perhaps the fact that we're not very close friends, more colleagues who get on quite well, isn't really in my favour...

I also recall having the sensation that WIQ would be significant in my life, and not just in a professional sense, when we first met. It took me 6 months to realise that I had a crush on her though!

Happy - I had the same thing as you - openness (and real honesty) from the start which formed a deeper bond. BEWARE! I'm certain you two are going to fall in love. Well that's what my crystal ball is flashing at me. As soon as your hands start intertwining, you know your heart has set sail.

Likea - I can really sense your frustration and think the only way you're going to be able to sort this out and know for sure is if you say something to her. I don't think you should write to her as it could be misconstrued or she might not respond and leave you even more in the dark. If you can be really light about your approach and just say something along the lines of I really like you and didn't realise how fond of you I've become and missed you when you were away. Or something not too heavy. Not in my best Byronesque mood right now but will put my thinking cap on and get back to you. My WIQ said exactly that: I really like, I mean really like you and even though deep down I knew this to be true and how well we bonded, I still thought she must say this to everyone so didn't take it seriously. In the end I was the one who told her I had feelings I couldn't ignore. I really put myself on the line but at that point I didn't care (or even realise) as the need to say something was stronger than the need to keep my trap shut and protect my pride. I didn't care at the time if she was going to say no as I had to say something. So long as you don't make her feeling uncomfortable (and withhold your tonne of bricks ) there's no reason why she should be alarmed. Just be light and frank, that way I'm sure she will be flattered and not shocked.

Happy - I also wasn't looking for anything and thought I was content in my marriage, but now realise I wasn't happy at all and was feeling isolated and completely cut off from ex-H. It's always when you are not looking that something comes along to wake you up!

Notfor - how much have you said or hinted to your WIQ you like her or would she just know from looks/vibes?

Loveis - right, let me see... apart from all the looks and vibes, I've recently told her that I think she's gorgeous, that she has lovely legs... this was after the infamous 'snuggling' incident the other night. She sort of accepts my compliments recently, but doesn't seem keen to reciprocate as she did in the beginning (initiate, even).

I've also made some hints in the past about how great i think she is in a professional sense...but I was always worried that my blatant admiration for her in that sense was something she had perhaps put about to others.. which is why Outmy and Likea say i shouldn't trust her as far as i can throw her...

not as straight forward as your situation or happytit's still love that name

Likea ~ I think if you don't ask her, then you will forever be punishing yourself with the "what if's" and "if only's" as you keep saying you regret not having said something earlier.
I agree with Loveis, a letter is too intense really. You will probably really earn her respect for having the balls to say something to her face whereas in this situation, a letter might seem a bit teenage (?) and could leave you in shreds agonizing over her response....which of course may never come. At least if you say something it shows you are not afraid of your feelings and it is really endearing....she won't gobble you up and spit you out, but I understand this does take some guts. I really think only a confession will get you to where you want to be either way..it could be the best thing you've ever done, and even if she is polite and flattered but says she doesn't feel the same...then you can move on and hopefully it will seal your friendship. If she cuts you out of her life, then she wasn't who you thought she was anyway, so it would help you to move on.
She sounds far too worldly to be shocked or horrified over this. You don't need to be embarrassed either, it would show strength of character I think and empower you at the same time. You could explain what a shock it is for you, as you have never fancied a woman before..etc. but how she had bowled you over. Her head will probably swell to the size of a giant watermelon.
Notfor - I think it's a little different for you as you work together, so you don't want to be uncomfortable in the workplace. I would keep it light with your WIQ and really concentrate on asking her as many questions as possible! Are you pregnant could be a good one?! Have you ever had an experience with a woman etc....then it will naturally lead on to her asking you stuff and then you might start to get some answers.

FollowYour - I think you're right about Likea's situation - it could be a really empowering moment for her - why should she feel embarassed about her strong, womanly, natural feelings? embracing the moment could be really wonderful.

I agree it'd be harder for me to take this approach as we work together regularly, and as she's in a relationship, as am I. I'm sort of worried about asking her about the pg, as it could be a real mood killer! we'd probably just go on to discussing folic acid, or Ina May Gaskin (much as i love her books, even the bit about orgasmic births probably couldn't redeem the conversation from that point on )

in terms of asking her if she's ever been with another woman i don't know...could work. Is there a more subtle way to ask that particular question?

Notfor- yes! I hear you about the mood killer re your WIQ's potential pg but I've heard somewhere that women fantasize more about sleeping with another woman when they are pg!!
A subtle way of asking her if she's ever been with another woman? Ummmm, no not really! How about, the old "what do you think of same sex relationships" "do you know anyone in one"? Or sexuality in general? Will try and have a think and get back to you on that one!

Notfor - you could ask her about her present relationship, how long they've been together...who was she with before etc. and then you could talk about your history - about how you had crushes on women before you got married and see how that goes down???

thanks Loveis and followyourjoy for trying to boost my confidence. It's hard because I had these feelings for nearly a year now and things sort of 'settled' into a certain mode with her - it will take a lot of nerve after all the chit chat we've done to come out with this! The reasons I haven't asked yet was her being on and off in her moods genrally and rarely having time to ourtselves (always people around or she's working) and she seems to put barriers deliberately even though after drinkinbg she seems to relax and forget a bit about barriers. Then a couple of months ago I founf out that she strated seeing a man quite actively - so I was thinking of just letting it go, I though I could just decide and let her go, but it's very hard especially after moments when she is nice to me and the hopong starts again. At the moment I'm just not getting any time with her - that's why i was thinking of the note (and it's not so nerve wrecking), I have seen her for some 30 min this tiome and again people around, 'too busy t chat' vibes - I couldn't just start this could I? I'm seeing her briefly again next week and then not for another two weeks at least. As I said if we worked/shared a hobby it woyld have been so much easier to find time for proper communication. I just feel she has guessed and is pushing me away in a polite way (as in 'please don't say anything sill' almost as all she would do is feel awkward then and reject me, be it kindly). I though a note doesn't have to be intense - it can be a few sentences and stating the facts so to speak - I was thinking exactly on the lines as you mention in direct talk). The fact she is nearly 20yrs older really does affect my nerves - I feel like imposing something inappropriate ,not because we aer two women but because she is mucholder and hasn't encouraged me when she easily could (being worldly and all that). I think it would be wiser to just step away, but I can't seem to be able to at the moment, so I though maybe a simple note is a compromise. It still requires bravery and can be empowering, teenagerish..that would be a long intense letter, or do yo uthink even 'grown up' a note is same? I can be very good at writing down a sentiment, it won't be in my chatty style as on here. Also she is very literary person so may appreciate it more in writing?

just to say, if the right moment happened I could still tell her - i.e. she had time for me and noone around, but I'm fed up waiting for htat - ther ewere much more previously but recently it's just impossible, that's why I'm regretting.
NotFor I really think your wiq already knows, so it's a bit redundant to ask her what she thinks of same sex r-ships (and kind of wrong when she is in r-ship and pg), I think you could say 'is it as obvious as I thinkit is to you, why I initiated this meeting?' when you meet, and then ask her to be honest, mention you ve been with women before and aer confused about her friendliness (she did intiate the shawl incident) and that you'd be fine with any answer, just need to know.