Turning Tavern IV - Down Bi the riverside, near the well of loneliness...

[NotForProfit]

Hi all,

thought i'd be proactive and start a new thread for the wenches of the turning tavern as the old thread's pretty much full...

for anyone new to this, it's a thread for women suddenly finding themselves attracted to another woman, so grab a glass of something intoxicating, pull up a chair by the fireside and we'll try to help one another deal with the elation, confusion and heartache of rediscovering your sexuality.

Hi Likea - I have been dipping in and out of these threads since the beginning and have posted on earlier TT threads but I have name changed since then. Going by what you've recounted on here, I am under the impression that your WIQ isn't that curious as she didn't ask about your holiday and she has never asked you about your personal relationships or really noodled into details about your life. This doesn't necessarily mean she's not interested but she does sounds quite self-contained and not really a passionate or particularly open person, hence hard to read. I think you know her best...and I think you also cut her a lot of slack because you are fond of her. I also think you can tune into someone's body language to tell if they are attracted to you or not, and it does sound as if at times you have been really sure she's attracted but other times you are met with a brick wall. All very inconsistent, and could be a whole number of reasons why (which you have already talked about..age gap/social standing/children etc).
How are you feeling now compared to say, three months ago? Are you feeling like things have progressed or are you none the wiser? It's good to check in with your feelings as time can run away with us and before you know it, a year has gone by and you're still stuck in the same situation!

This is a general question to everybody..
do you think, if you have a crush on someone.....and you know nothing can happen (in your rational mind, as you are married or shacked up with someone, or the person you're crushing on is with someone else- happy etc) can you just accept that it's a crush without wanting to take it further? Can you accept the reality that it may never be reciprocated? Could you be satisfied simply by admiring someone? As human beings we are always looking for some kind of experience, and it's very hard to turn off the physical longings as we are sensual beings....
Is there a cut off point where you just think, ok....nothing is happening, let's move on? Or is it better to have a crush than nothing at all?

follow, to you last question - I think it depends whether you are in commited r-ship /married or not. If not then I think you have to move on as being stuck in a crush for too long is unhealthy and closes you off from new opportunities that ARE real. I was on the verge of moving on and accepting that I will just admire her but turm down the temperature (this was in June, after she's been cool towards me) , then of course she's been suddenly very warm again and I wobbled and gone back to hoping. Now again I'm thinking of moving on as I feel this is aboiut my limit time wise - it's not a year yet but will be in a couple of months. I think generally a year is realistic tiome for a crush, it's hard to cool down sooner if you keep 'feeding' on positive signals. I'd say I'm a lot more sensitive now to coolness than I was earlier when it wasn't 'make or break' stage. She did ask me about the holiday when she saw me, not in detail but still there was a chat, but in the text when she cancelled things she didn't ask anything (when i was actually away). Strangely enough she does tell me details sometimes about her life, mainly in asked but sometimes she feels chatty - but her head space seems too busy most of the time as tbh she is taking WAY too much on in all aspects. That's why she's most relaxed and warm when drunk as then I think all her 'things to do' fade away.
Yes, to return to your q, I think if you ARE married then having a crush may be better than nothing if you get some satisfaction from the main r-ship, as otherwise you could get restless/bored. But it depends whether you are the type to be happy in a fantasy. I'm not - I always ended up acting on something sooner or later, or I cool down and lose interest, I couldn't live in a fgantasy for too long. Some people can. I wonder what was your old name, did you write a lot - I do wonder about one old poster in particular who was very active at some point and then went off to deal with complications re her P. if not frequent, I prob wouldn't recognise.

but will turn down*

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't posted much in the past few days; it's been pretty hectic round here.

FOLLOW - to answer your question, when I first found this thread I was fairly happy to just let my crush be a crush, although I thought something physical with WIQ would be great, if it happened. Since then, it has become much more emotional (as Outmy and Likea have wisely picked up on), so no, unless there was a good reason I think a crush would usually develop into something esle for me.

Quite a lot has happened, and yet at the same time nothing has happened. We havent met up as planned yet, and it does now look as though this other person will be present when it does happen.
On the other hand, there was a big work related do yesterday, which everyone went to, and it was odd really. Her dp and my dh were both present; weirdly, they're actually very similar people, looks-wise. Don't know if he's as easy going about certain things as my dh is, but they spent a long time chatting together and myself and WIQ were together quite a lot of the time too. She wasn't drinking, (again) ostensibly as she was driving. However, as women I think we instinctively know what that really means, don't we? I didn't ask her outright if she was... not my business at all.

So if anything should make me reach a point of acceptance it should be that, shouldn't it? And yet, when i think back over last night, the things which stand out are how giggly and lovely and coy she was towards me when we first saw one another and how strong the vibes were, and how much time we spent just in each other's company and line of sight, how she watched me when i was with dh; how she wrapped her shawl around us both when we were outside and how tiny and delicate her waist felt with my hand resting on it. i know it's an obvious thing to say, but women really do feel different - more gentle and sensual somehow. It just felt so right, the two of us wrapped up like that...

She was fishing for compliments again, and I ended up basically telling her I thought she was gorgeous, and that her legs were beautiful, and how nice she smelled when we were so close. I didn't say this all at once by the way! Her reaction? 'Oh, Notfor!' I suppose I got carried away by the candlelight and the atmosphere of the evening. Such a beautiful summer night.

Dh was pissed by the end and tried to get the two of them home with us for some wine. God, how embarassing, i did tell him off for that - they'll probably think we're swingers or something In the end we went our separate ways, but she was still calling after us as we left...

CW may be away - i didn't really expect to see her much over the summer holidays at any rate...

Hello all. Finally caught up with the thread again.
Notfor - sounds like your WIQ and you definitely have strong chemistry. It must be hard for you to let go of your feelings when there are such strong vibes and an invisible magnet pulling you together. To me, to be so aware of someone all the time and attentive must mean there is admiration and from what you say, the crush goes both ways. Also her fishing for compliments suggests she wants your opinion, approval and your attention and she is looking to you (no one else) to make her feel good (unless she is lacking confidence which sounds unlikely as she has made flippant remarks in the past such as being you one of her fans). You're right about women feeling different. Everything, from touch, sound and smell to sensuality, softness of skin and aura, is very different to a being with a man. It's more subtle.
Follow - in regards to your crush question. I imagine it's hard to sustain a crush unless the other person is giving off some kind of come hither vibes. A few of the folk on here seem to get mixed messages from their WIQs which must make it doubly hard. Out of interest, how long would you allow a crush to continue with no definitive signals? I don't think I could handle it for more than a few months. Otherwise it becomes a bit of a head fuck.

Likea - I didn't post that regularly so you probably won't remember me.....but I think it's a great thread and I'm fascinated by the subject matter!
Really in answer to my own question (Loveis) I think it depends if the crush is on a man or a woman come to think of it. I think with a man, if nothing happens within the first month or two I would call it quits as the signals are usually very clear and obvious (black and white even!). However....with a woman even though I haven't had a long crush on anyone I reckon it could last a bit longer and can quite see how so many women get emotionally caught up with their WIQ's for quite long periods of time. I think women are much more complex, and may not give off obvious signals to start with but seem to be able to flirt with the idea of another woman (even though they may be very hetero).. I can see how this could get misconstrued. It is very flattering if a woman is giving you attention and I think a non threatening crush from another woman could be quite an ego boost.
Notfor - it does sound like your WIQ is responding to your attentions, and as I said...you are not a threat to her so she is possibly having quite a lovely experience with you but I would be careful as you could well get hurt if you invest too much more hope into it. Sure you know what you're doing...and she too (one hopes).

I'm not sure whether everyone picked up on the hint NotFor was making - that really would be a dealbreaker as far a possibilty of a fling goes for now between them - she meant wiq was pg. Of course if she was single and pg that's different but as far as i can see this would tie her even more to her P who she also really likes/loves it would seem. Not For, I think is spot on about women being able to enjoy flirting with another woman or and idea of a fling while being very hetero! This could well be what my wiq is doing too - could I be boosating her ego as well? yes, I suppose, thoiugh at least she is single so it's not too irrational to hope. I think you really aer heading to painful experience NOtFor, I'd advise to stay away seriously. She does also seem the type who enjoys ego boosts - all this fishing for compliments, 'fan club' comments, telling people at work (as a boast ) - she may be not realising that it's harmful to you as to her it may be lighthearted and novel, but she may not be considerate of your feelings.

*NotFor, I think follow is spot on..

*heading for.. (too tired today)

Likea - well picked up on. yes, when i think back to what i was like a couple of yrs ago when last pg, the last thing on my mind would've been getting involved with anything extramarital; i was exhausted enough just getting through the day. [Big, blazing red flag if only i can heed it].

If I think about being anyone's ego-boost, I have to admit it doesn't feel good. Being used basically for someone else's gratification. again, these things should be providing me with a reality check. I feel as though I appreciate her for the complex person I find her to be, and I would like to appreciated in a similar way, not valued for the extra attention and discarded in other ways.

Followyour- what you mentioned about her finding me non-threatening, and so not minding the attention, (or half-welcoming it) rings true. She has in the past mentioned women she finds 'scary' so they seem to have some form of category for her, and by the looks of things it's not one I easily fall into.

I think part of it is that I decided at the beginning that she must be bi (for some reason) and now I really don't want to let go of that idea. I've sort of got used to it, and I don't actually want to think about her as straight.

Loveis - yes, it definitely felt like an invisible magnet sort of evening! But then again, in my case it couldve been the wine. Perhaps she is more attentive and loving towards her dp in private, but i really didn't get much in the way of chemistry between the pair of them this time. They were barely in the same room the whole night... although i have a vague memory of a kiss between them which i remember thinking looked a bit awkward. At one point she told my dh that she liked the look of the way he held me as we danced... which I thought was an odd thing to say. Her dp spent an awful lot of time looking at me, weirdly enough, and seemed to know my name and lots about me, despite our never having officially met before.

oh and i was kissing dh at that point, being very aware that I was doing so right in front of her and that she was watching me/us.

Outmy - thanks for your frankness. Rationally, I know you're completely right and all the red-flag signals are there. What made me sure that she'd told people before was that certain people said things which i hadn't really told to anyone except her. I shouldn't forget that. It really is straying into headfuck territory - i try to focus on other things but she just keeps popping up, somehow. I'm exhausted today because i'm not sleeping properly and have much less energy for family and friends than i usually have. It's eating into other areas of my life, e.g i'm supposed to be meeting up for playdate with a friend and the kids tomorrow, and I was feeling to so down about wiq I was close to just cancelling. Have given myself a talking to and I know from experience that letting one person take over your thoughts so much is never healthy. Just need to start putting the theory into practise. Regarding the cuddling up, afterwards she was all 'oh, how did that happen?!' with feigned innocence/surprise. And total sobriety. Unlike me.

sounds to me like your wiq told her P about you as well! (can she never keep her mouth shut??) what with him studying you (possibly deliberately to warn you off? - unless of course thay aer into 'swinging' )

I'm also annoyed, like outmy as she seems to be discussing you with everyone (who knows you) as if your advances are there for amusement!

oh yes, outmy, Im sure she didn't tell her P she encouraged anything, just about NotFor's advances!

I just think she is a 'lightweight' iykwim - I don't think she is being deliberately cruel just sort of flaky and selfish and not a deep person emotionally - that's the impression. This of course doesn't mean she can't have deep feelings for her P or future dc, but what's not in 'important' category she seems to take 'lightly'. I must say it's partly because you aer in r-ship and she may well think that for you, NOtFor your partner is most important and that similarly you aer light hearted about flings/attarction to women, and doesn't realise that you take it seriously. I think you need to distance yourself unless you want to spell it out to her that your emotions got involved.
outmy - it's very understandable that you feel angry/protective - I was like htat about your wiq, it's inevirable on this thread as we all project a bit but also it's SO HARD to be onjective for anyome getting emotional about a woman, as they aer just not as starioght-talking/acting as men in many cases in these early stages of attraction, so observers see it so much clearer. I'd hate to think that NOtFor will become some amusing 'plaything' for her wiq - I reallly wish CW hasn't disappeared at this moment when NOtF needs distraction

I wish i could get angry. There definitely is a degree of insensitivity about the way she's handling things. Supposed to be meeting with her on thursday. I wish i could just be lighthearted and not care so much, a bit like I felt in the beginning. I'm sure it'll be largely work-related anyway, although the double entendres in her email have surely been put in purely to mess with my head. stuff like 'i'm sure we have things we'd like to get out of our system. in privacy.' but as that was addressed to me and the other person, it's just more headfuckery i think.

Outmy - thanks for being so protective of me. I think you've been through so much emotionally speaking and it's understandable that you don't want me to go through similar xx

likea - you could be right about the flakiness where her feelings about me are concerned. dh and dcs are still the most important people to me and she'd be right to assume that, but my emotional response to her is looming pretty large over my life right now, and perhaps (hopefully even) she's not fully aware of that.

LIKEA -i wish CW would show herself too! but summer holidays are like that, i suppose!

Notfor - unless you can get yourself in a nonchalant and buoyed up state (so you at least seem like you don't give a sh*t) maybe it's best to cancel your meeting with her. Is this possible? Where is CW when you need her to give you a boost?