Will anyone admit to...?

[Just5minspeace]

...having an affair that no-one found out about?

Yes stern because people just magically wake up one morning to find themselves deeply emeshed in a passionate affair which totally consumes them. It always happens like that. It wasn't anyone's fault, it just happened magically overnight, so there was nothing, nothing at all, they could do to stop it.

Because it never, ever, ever happens that these people make hundreds of choices along the way, before it reaches the point where it is a full blown passionate affair. Oh no, of course they don't.

Men deceive themselves too though. The woman's husband is painted as an abusive, controlling monster or a neglectful saddo who didn't know the prize he had and deserves to have it taken away.

The biggest delusion is that neither will never do it to eachother, without ever delving into the personal characteristics of their partners. The former relationship is blamed for everything and not the personality and choices of the individuals.

Tsk....ever, not never

I agree stern because people's basic personalities don't change, they just don't. Doesn't matter who you are currently with. You will always be you regardless of which partner you're with.

As someone who was devastated by this action (OK now, but with a new reality)

"the choice not to test your lover's commitment to you, in case that 'love' turns out to be the mirage it often is."

made me chuckle. But not in a horrible way, because you OWs are ALSO being screwed, and in that you have my recognition and sympathy.

You are NOT in a relationship
You are in a fantasy
You are a symbol - of freedom, no demands, the perfect woman
You are NOT loved for you, which is what you long for
You are filling a hole in the marriage, yes
But that hole comes out of HIS character defaults
Because he is unable/unwilling to fill the hole it is easier to turn to you.
His wife is unable to do this hole filling on her own, I promise you.

I wish you all care, I really do. You are in for a lot of pain, only you are blinding yourself to it. Take great care.

[And if any of you are in a great passion with the man I married? If you can get him out of my house, you can have him. He just will not go!]

Having pondered this, perhaps it comes down to 'probabilities'. If you knew - for certain - that you were going to be found out and the whole maelstrom of tears and anguish would definitely follow - you wouldn't do it.

But if there is a chance that you will NOT be found out - and you can compartmentalise your feelings and not fall into an obsession about the OM/OW - perhaps it is, for some, worth taking the risk. After all - the risk of discovery is largely in their hands. You only have to read a thread here to learn the warning signs. Some people will be adept at ensuring those signs are not there.

I believe that people do not inherently want to hurt the person that they love. They believe they will not be caught - and some won't be. An affair must be high-octane stuff to take the risk in the first place. It must have something within it for people to take such enormous risks. I don't believe that a cheater is always a cheater - or that anybody is affair-proof, whatever they say.

I believe that if an affair is discovered, the high-octane element goes out of the window immediately and reality, shame, disbelief, anguish and the whole truth of the pain being caused comes home to roost. I can quite understand the wishes of some cheatees wishing that they'd never known about the affair as their lives are blown wide open - and the cheater, who might be well able to put their own infidelity away in a box - but cannot escape seeing the pain and devastation they have wrought. I think a cheater cheats not because they don't care but because they don't see that they are taking a huge risk of discovery and subsequent decimation of the life they once had.

Great post Lying.

The 'risk factor' is doubled however if the affair is with someone who's in a relationship him/herself though. All the efforts to hide it are only as effective as the other person's deception skills and their partner's powers of detection too.

I entirely agree though that few people would do it if they knew they'd get caught and had to face the consequences, but people also always under-estimate the damage they do to themselves whether they are discovered or not. That sad realisation comes later.

sternface... For some - women as well as men - they will feel little or no guilt at an undiscovered affair. Why would they? Nobody is any the wiser so no collateral damage to consider.

The double 'risk factor' can actually assist both people in the affair as, if both of them have the same to lose - and don't want to lose it - they will be extremely careful to maintain status quo. It's not altruistic, of course it isn't - discovery would mean the end of the affair, definitely, because a discovered 'affair' no longer contains the elements necessary to be secretive and covert thus the affairs ends, however any eventual relationship is played out.

MN is such a tiny sample; almost insignificant really. I think there are many, many undiscovered affairs that burn themselves out and perhaps, in view of the devastation caused by a revelation, that is the best way?

Interesting topic and I've noticed more topics on the same subject popping up here lately. Tip of the iceberg...

For people who feel justified in their actions or have under-developed consciences, I agree that there is often no guilt. For others though, it's actually very painful to acknowledge that for a time, they became liars and deceivers - and that often leaves a mark or shadow. It has an impact on their relationships with others (especially children) and most importantly, their relationships with themselves. The sensible ones come for therapy and undergo a process of forgiving themselves. I think it's always a sensible thing to question oneself about why you behaved in a way that caused you to depart from your former values, assuming they were there in the first place.

That's interesting, Sternface. I worked abroad for quite a while, mainland Europe mostly, and there is a distinctly different perception regarding affairs for what I would say is a larger percentage of people than in the UK, albeit this is annecdotal. In some countries, affairs are seen as diversions, interludes, distractions, etc. They are not seen as threats to marriage in the same way that they seem to be here. The wife is 'prima' and nothing and nobody usurps her position. I can quite see why a spouse would not feel guilt; the arrangement has been normalised. It might be the same for women having affairs also but I think perhaps that is less typical - certainly less obvious.

I'm not sure that, even in the UK, people would justify their actions or have undeveloped consciences; I think it's purely down to a determination to keep things 'separate'.

I think that double lives are far more common than we might guess they are.

it's not even the "thrill" and the "attraction" to OM that I find difficult to understand....I get that

I simply believe that individual men are not that wonderful/irresistable/different etc to make it worth the risk of fucking up your life

what does these OM have that's so great ? A cock of gold ?

nope, they are simply adept at tuning into your individual vulnerabilities, whether that is an unhappy primary r'ship, boredom, low self esteem, sense of entitlement or whatever

I would have more respect for a woman who justified her affair by saying she just fancied some sex with other men than this smokescreen of mystical, star-crossed, other-worldly "love"

it's simply bullshit, dressed up as something that makes you feel better about what you know is wrong

it's simply bullshit, dressed up as something that makes you feel better about what you know is wrong

Exactly. The common thing in affairs is the lies the cheater tells themselves as much as their lies to their partners and OW/M. We know about the script, and part of that is what they tell themselves to allow them to have the affair in the first place. And then the lies that they are in love and therefore it isnt really cheating, but as I said above, soulmates who are destined to be together. The lies that it "just happened", that they couldnt help themselves etc.

I dont think that the lies they tell their partner as anywhere near as big as the lies they tell themselves.

in fact, when I see people spouting this shit on here or in RL, I feel embarassed for them

Not exactly nice to realise your soul mate is a lying, conniving, self centered person who will risk the happiness of their own children. Hardly paints you in a positive light, no?

Can I ask (and please feel free to ignore if you'd rather not answer) has either Bogeyface, AnyFucker or TheBitchHiker had an affair?

RB, no

why do you ask ? Is it that thing where people who have never had children (for example) can have no opinion on how to raise them ?

No, but I came very close once when my first marriage was breaking down. I didnt because I had a choice. I made the choice to not cheat, because it is a choice, not a compulsion.

After my marriage was over, the married man I had been very attracted to and who made it clear that he wanted to take things further was not so attractive anymore, funny that.......

I have also been the faithful wife to a cheating husband, so I have heard the lies from both sides (including the ones I started telling myself) and I stand by everything I have said.

Thank you for answering. I believe everyone is entitled to have their own views and opinions and to have the opportunity to express them if they should so wish.

I'm not a believer that if you haven't been in a position of never having children (for example) or having an affair (for example) that therefore, by default, you can have no opinions on those subjects.

What I struggle with sometimes is how clear cut people's opinions can be (not just about affairs but in many other areas too), to the extent that it can leave me feeling as if they are unwilling to acknowledge the very real fact that life isn't clear cut. I know that might sound absurd to someone who does hold those steadfast opinions but that's just my feeling on it.

I agree Running things are almost never black and white:)

but when it comes to such emotive subjects it can be very hard to look rationally at the issues involved...knee jerk reaction is often the order of the day!

I don't have children (yet) but as an aspiring mum I have opinions on child rearing. However I am always open to learning new things, and havng my perspective changed by mum's who have experience with things I was 'clear cut' about. EG the 'changing nappy on a bus' thread. :)

I agree with you that life isn't black and white, sometimes I think though that is comes back to our personal values which can be very hard to change.

RF, and I equally uphold your right to have an opinion too

If you looked at it rationally you wouldn't do it.

If you took out the excitement, butterflies, attraction - the non rational elements - what are you left with?

People weighing up years of stability and happiness of entire families against a few minutes shag, and concluding that the few minutes wins.

Rationally, no one would make that choice.

I meant RB sorry

the thing is, I am on the OW's side if you look at it another way

take that cheating, lying, deceitful ordinary common or garden man down off his pedestal and what have you got ?

he isn't "special", he's just a man

worth blowing your whole life apart for ?

no, not buying it

and if you looked closely enough, neither would you (general "you")

I agree with you AF and I also appreciate your viewpoint. It is actually a strange comfort to hear that being an OW does not mean automatic condemnation by everyone. And when you look at it rationally then what you and 24hour say does indeed make sense.

Those comments are made from a rational and clear cut view point. When you are emotionally involved - with anyone or anything - it is just not that simple. It is not always a case of a few minutes shag. For some, the emotional attachment lies very deep and perhaps outweighs the physical side of an affair. That is not so easy to look at from afar. If it were as simple as to stand back, be logical and simply switch off those feelings for someone then that would be the answer.

And there will be those who say, yes, that's exactly what you should do. You have made a choice to have an affair and you should just stop, it's black and white, simple. And I can see that view point and I can also see how that makes absolute sense and it is the right thing to do. But is isn't always so simple, clear cut and black and white. And I am not saying that as an excuse to continue an affair. It can be an incredibly lonely and unhappy place to be but despite all that it can, at the same time, be the only place to be - because I for one don't have a switch to just turn off all those emotions.

You can look at the choices you have made throughout your life and with hindsight realize that perhaps those choices were wrong or right. When that situation, any situation, is actually happening, I think that can be very different.