Is it possible to get past this

[Orkward]

I feel very confused at the moment. My dh is generally supportive and respectful and fine - but recently he forced me to have sex with him. It's never happened before and it was sudden and unexpected. He claims it wasn't what I say it was and that I could have stopped it if I'd wanted to, he thinks I made it into something it isn't but I can't seem to get past it. We've been together for a long time. I feel very confused about it all now.

Yes sorry, it really is getting ahead of you all this isn't it. The world on the otherside of this will not be as bad or as hard as this is right now I promise. It is so daunting. I was crying and crying in jobcentre when I had to go an apply for benefits as a single parent I remember. You have made absolutely massive strides in the last week, absolutely huge. There's not much you can do until Monday anyway in practical terms. You just really need a rest I think. Will you be safe for a couple of nights if you do nothing until Monday? Perhaps you could allow yourself to rest and be a mess for a little while and set a time to commit to sorting out some more practical things? Maybe doing one thing a day?

Yes, I need to just plan one step at a time. All documents fine - i sort all that stuff anyway. I don't think he'd even know what is where.

I can't work out if I feel more safe or less safe - does that make sense?

It does make sense and Offred is right, one step at a time.

Yes, makes a lot of sense. You can't be sure of him. His "I can't be sure what a bad day will make me do" thing sounds like a threat to me. He has what my mum calls an "external locus of control" basically he is never responsible for what he does. You make him do horrible things to you by making him feel small, a bad day will make him do bad things to you etc

Orkward, hope you got some sleep.

After reading your latest posts, I wondered whether selling the house was an option. Although it carries its own complications, if you both moved into new homes somewhere a bit more urban then he would still be able to spend the amount of time with the children that he does now, but access to other forms of childcare and support would be easier, perhaps.

This may, of course, be the last thing you would consider for all sorts of reasons.

Offred that's exactly it. I don't think he was saying it as a threat, I think he was just being honest and it weirdly helps to hear as it shows that my anxiety is based on something real and not just me over reacting or imagining things.

Thornbury - the problem is, to buy another house would take both our wages, and definitely not two houses - and rents here are high, I guess it's something we do need to consider though. I would like to stay living in this area as the children and I have friends here who I know we will all need.

I think it was a threat, if it wasn't then there'd be no point saying it to you. Why would he be so unclear on what he'd done but then so "honest" about the fact he might do it again? Especially considering that what he did was so premeditated. I think that (and the bit about seeing the separation as temporary) was the trying to regain control when you asserted yourself bit. But it is good in a way that he didn't do/say anything worse than a veiled threat.

Did you get any sleep?

What a shit he is to turn your life upside down like this, just to suit himself.

I agree with Offred that what he said was a threat - he basically implied that it could easily happen again if the circumstances were right. He's making an excuse for himself to do it in future. Utter prick .

I don't know, it was part of a larger conversation around other bad things that have happened in the past - not necessarily done to me or at me, just loss of control and issues he's had with MH. I explained that I can't live with the uncertainty and he agreed that he struggled to know what his own boundaries are when feeling very angry. He could see how draining it is living with that.

It's quite woolly as I've struggled with this for a while and probably protected him because I've believed it's illness rather than anything he could prevent, but when it comes to any issues around sex, I was wrong and he has to take responsibility because it's too much to live with.

Orkward, having MH issues is tough, but it doesn't excuse anyone's behaviour, ever. Your partner should always treat you with kindness and respect, no matter what is going in their own life. If they can't do that, then they need to get out of the relationship or do something very quickly to improve things.

What are your feelings towards him at the moment?

Yes, you cannot and should not be expected to tolerate abuse because of someone's mh issues. It may help you to understand why he has behaved in a way which has ended your relationship but it is not a reason to stay. What MH problems does he have and is he getting treatment? My xp incidentally has a diagnosis of BPD (post dating our relationship).

The reason I ask is because it seems as though he is blaming you, a bad day, having mh problems for his utterly unacceptable behaviour (of which I'm sure there is more). If he is so articulate and so self aware that he can identify all these things but he is doing nothing other than blaming that is a big red flag.

I can just see the "but I have mh issues, I even opened up to you about them, you should know better than to do/say xyz" I just think all of this is about trying to manipulate you to accept responsibility for his self-entitled and abusive behaviour. Yes, it is clever and extremely manipulative but that is how people are able to get away with abuse. It also makes me think you may be at risk at the point he is asked to leave (because he doesn't sound like he is taking it seriously just feeding you an abuse script to try and keep you under his control).

That's why it happens to amazing and strong people like you because abusive people are inherently manipulative with their "honesty" and normally clever.

No I don't think it was a script or that he was manipulating me (although i guess that's what I would think, if i was being manipulated )

I can't explain too much as I'm worried about being too identifiable to family on here etc.

I am starting to understand though. About it not being an excuse. It's difficult because I've believed it to be for a very long time

Yes, I know. He may not be coldly and deliberately manipulating you but he is definitely wrapped up in himself and manipulating you to accept his abuse perhaps subconsciously because of his entitlement beliefs.

It's great to care about people and to want to make their life better but there comes a point where empathy and caring become self-destructive. For some reason you believe that you need to put your totally valid feelings to one side in order to appease your husband and make life better for him. That is not the case. No matter what has happened to him, no matter how difficult his life has been, that still does not give him the right to expect others to put up with abusive behaviour.

You have every right to expect your partner to be caring and considerate and to want to make life better for you just as much as you want to make life better for him. It's a give and take situation.

Where do you think your belief that his MH issues excuse his behaviour has come from?

I don't think it was just empathy and caring, more like surviving certain situations and trying to get past them, and believing that they'd get better with time and support. I've not always handled things well or properly and I'm not blameless in some ways as i've allowed things to happen or ignored things or switched off from them. I'm realising that now though.

You've made massive strides but try not to blame yourself for being abused x

Maybe not blaming as much as needing to take responsibility for some of it so that I can feel like I can find a way through, if that makes sense.

Why do you need to take responsibility for it?

Yes, it does but it may still be minimising behaviour. If you have an internal locus of control where you are geared towards taking responsibility for things and he had an external one then it can be a dangerous interaction which perpetuates his ability to abuse you. Creating an internal locus of control in you may be part of what he has been doing for a long time and you may need to break those thinking patterns. I really think some kind of specialist talking therapy would be helpful for you. (pester)

Makes me feel more like I can change it perhaps, or have more control over what happens.

I don't mean for what happened specifically, i won't take responsibility for that, just for our relationship, my part in it, how it has changed and why I've not realised a lot of this before.

Yes, that's dangerous ground right now though orkward. Right now it is just impossible to analyse things with the level of objectivity required for that. It is much safer for you right now to believe that actually things probably haven't changed, that he has always been like this and that he has just got worse as time went on, although I don't know as i dont know you in RL, this is by far the most likely scenario - what could have made him suddenly change so drastically that he'd be capable of that and why we're your feelings about it so confused afterwards, why is he still trying to blame you for it? That you don't need to think about why he is behaving how he is, just look at how he is behaving and that there is nothing you can do to change him. Nothing at all. You really are doing extremely well with this reasoning out though so soon after. Really you have a very high level of clarity and self-awareness considering it is so new.

You must never take responsibility for anything he has done. Your newer posts hint that there have been unpleasant incidents in your past together, which both of you have excused on his MH problems. You say you've allowed things to happen, but I don't believe that. From how you've described your conversation over this horrible latest incident, it sounds like you two have a pattern going where you try to assertively initiate an adult conversation when he's been unacceptable - which, incidentally, is a very healthy and mature attitude and one counsellors would approve of, so hardly creatingproblems yourself - and he convinces you that you're imagining things, making mountains out of molehills, misinterpreting, causing a fuss, being oversensitive, etc., and then, if you 'dare' to continue, he admits the fault but says you caused it and then to get past it because you are at a stalemate, you both decide to blame it on his MH.

The thing where he said he didn't know how far his boundaries could go when angry is chilling. Keep that one thing in your mind. Out of all his lying, vagueness, shifting the blame, etc., THIS is the one absolute truth he has told you. There is a saying; people show you who they are. All the other crap was him not wanting to have to accept responsibility and saying whatever to shut you up but that was him showing you who he is. Raping you is showing you who he is. Being awful and then making it someone or something else's fault is who he is. Yes, he can also be a man who can look after his children well and show them love and someone who can be nice to you too, but the core of him is rotten and dangerous. Nobody is all good and all bad; just that some people have too much bad to justify accepting the good, and he is one of them. As for is MH problems, even if he suffered from a condition called Rape-itis it still wouldn't mean you had to tolerate it and stay with him.

Look at what he has done; he has actually admitted to raping you and is totally minimising it and somehow blaming you. You're finding it hard to get your head round it because their is no getting your head round it. A normal, decent bloke wouldn't even dream of doing such a thing to his partner, much less try to make some sort of excuse for it whatsoever. The bit about him saying he couldn't see a need for it to happen again is also terrifying to read; that's basically saying "If you tow the line, I won't need to punish you by violating you again. Be a good little wifey".

You have done amazingly and come on so far in such a short period of time, it is so impressive and positive to read aout your new developments. Offred is spot on, however, when she says that you should concentrate on the facts that he has abused you and refused to take responsibility and go on from there. Trying to work out why he's been how he has been is fruitless and does not help and does not solve anything. All it does it keep you there with him whilst you drive yourself mad trying to work it out and the longer you stay, the more normal everything starts to become again and you risked being sucked back in and making excuses for him and letting yourself be blamed and violated. You won't make sense of it because you are a decent, normal person and his actions can't ever make sense to decent, normal people. In time, counselling would help with this and with helping you break down patterns you've developed for accepting blame for other's bad behaviour. I think you've been fantastic and keep up the good work and keep us updated. We really care about you.