OW perspective

[ListenBeforeJudging]

I'm fully expecting a flaming...this will be long.

I've spent many months lurking and reading the posts about all the affairs and suspected affairs and to be honest, it's helped me get over my own hurt. It's not often that the OW perspective is aired and I wanted to just let you all know that we're not all evil home-wreckers. There are always two sides to the story.

I had a male friend at work. We were good friends for quite a long time - nothing more in it. Then one day, out of the blue, he confessed that he'd fallen for me. I was gobsmacked, hadn't seen it coming and immediately distanced myself - I was angry with him as I didn't know what he wanted me to do with that information as a) he was married and b) I'd never thought of him like that.

I had a lot of time invested in our friendship and knew him well (albeit only at work) and knew he wasn't the typical straying type. I considered him a genuine friend so over time we talked it through. He confided that he felt that his marriage had broken down and that he'd been wanting to leave for at least two years (they'd been married for 8, had married young, no kids and it had descended into something platonic). He was terrified of leaving as he knew his wife was still in love with him and would be very hurt. His whole adult life, his family and all his friends were wrapped up with her.

For months we tried to put the situation behind us and carry on as normal but he told me that for the first time, he knew that he had to leave as if was capable of feeling the feelings he had for me there was no way back to fix his marriage.

We became closer and I started to develop feelings for him but still nothing happened between us. Then he told me that he was going to tell her that it was over. I was away and didn't see him for a week and when I came back he said he'd told her that he wanted out and that the 'wheels were in motion'. It was then that our affair began. We fell deeply in love.

With hindsight this was my biggest mistake and greatest regret. Long story short she was devastated, he couldn't go through with the pain he was causing her and for the next two years we had an on/off relationship (while managing somehow to have a consistent friendship) while he tried to extricate himself from the situation.

Then she found out. He cut me out of his life 'temporarily' while he 'sorted things out' (by this point we no longer worked together). I waited 3 months before seeing the light and telling him that it would never happen and that it was over. 4 months after that he left her. It was too late for us. There had been too much pain caused.

He was the love of my life. I still miss our friendship. I've felt the worst pain of my life over this.

My point to this story? I never planned to fall for him although I accept that I made some bad judgements and got in over my head emotionally. I've spent the last two years regretting what happened. I dream about his (now ex) wife often and want nothing more than to contact her to apologise for the part I played in her hurt - but I know that would just be indulgent and of no value to her when she's trying to move on.

My genuine belief is that if all was well in a marriage there would be no reason for a man to find solace/confidantes elsewhere. My advice? Talk about your concerns with your DH - before things get to the point that you can't communicate anymore.

Would you consider them equally responsible Dprince?

Yes I would. Imo if someone is married. You don't get involved, at all, ever. No matter what they say. You certainly don't do it then blame the wife for the marriage not being perfect.

Intact I was 16 and my older bf (20) of 3 months turned out to live with his gf and their son. He fed me th same lines 'we are just friends now' 'i didn't know how much I wanted to leave until I met you' 'she doesn't understand me'.
I walked away. For me its a big no no. I would have been as responsible as him.

Fair enough. I don't hold the same view. I think if your partner cheats on you, then that's the partner's fault, not anyone else's.

Even the happiest of marriages isn't happy all the time. Anyone can have down times & if there is someone else there then an affair can happen so personally I don't buy the excuse that if a marriage is happy an affair won't happen.

It's got nothing to do with being happy, it's about a partner being willing to cheat or not.

"Would you consider them equally responsible Dprince?"

I do. But then I judge people by my own moral standards - I wouldn't shag a married man so I blame and judge anyone who would and hold them equally to blame.

Exactly, Dprince. She knew he was married. A marriage or a long-term relationship with or without DCs deserves respect.
If someone wants or shows they want to behave badly, there is no need to sink to their level. It's about respect for yourself and for others.

You could have said to him okay - when the divorce is finished, finances sort out and you have bought your next flat/house then I will consider becoming intimate with you. That would have avoided the heartache on both sides.

There usually is a choice. Men who are married email me. One did last week. In fact two on one day. One was on business abroad, sounded quite nice. Said in London he tended to stay at can't remember now - that 5* hotel on Park Lane. I asked him very clearly as I always do if he were married. I wasn't happy about the answer (not clear). Probed more - apparently marriage all but over. Are you living in the same house? You have to be really blunt with some of these people. Yes, he was. Left it.

The other one also did not say he was married at first. I probed further. Was. Left it.

There are lots of people around who aren't married.

I still think the blame though mostly lies with the married person. The wife/husband never wants to think that because they often still love their spouse so it is more convenient to blame the other woman or man rather than blame the person they love whom they would rather regard as a victim. They are wrong. The person who is married and cheating is the one in the most wrong.

Why is it the woman's responsibility to talk to their husband in order to prevent said husband from dipping his wick into another woman?

Why isn't it the husband's responsibility to talk if he is unhappy instead of looking elsewhere?

Stru that's what I have never got. Why would you want that to live knowing you had been part of causing someone that hurt?

Incidentally, I would also lay blame on an Other Man in the same way. I don't think it is a woman's job to stop the wandering ways of men or anything.

Yes soup I agree. Be it the OW or OM, they hold some of the responsibility. The only time I would have sympathy would be if they had no idea their partner was attached.
I know someone who had a baby with their dp only to find out she was the OW. Upon finding out she ended things there and then. She had no idea that when he was working away he was actually going home to his wife and kids.

Ok, let me tell you the story of the man i met at work.

We were friends, used to lunch together, talk, laugh. We shared the same sense of humour, something that's always been top of my list of attractiveness.

It occurred to me quite unexpectedly one day that we were becoming attracted to one another, but he was married.

The End.

I think he told you a pack of lies- a lot of what he said sounds like a pile of BS to me.

Men who want to cheat will tell an OW anything. Half the time I think they even believe the lies themselves.

Unless you are with the man and his W 24/7 you have no idea what is really going on at home. And I can guarantee that these men are lying to you as well as to their wife.

OP, he most probably did not have a platonic, ie no sex relationship with his wife.

You just believed what you wanted to believe.

Fact is he lied to both of you.

Sorry

Right, so it's the responsibility of the woman to ensure her DH is happy so he doesn't have an affair? What world do you live in OP?

You had a long time to end the affair but you didn't, and now you mourn the loss of his friendship. I have no sympathy whatsoever with you. You knew what you were doing, as did he, but you didn't stop

My exh cheated on me with a friend when I was 6 months pregnant. I tried my best to sort it out, he wasn't interested and she did nothing to discourage it. I blame them both, but I blame her a lot more as she knew I was pg, I supported her through the break up of her relationship and helped her move house. She came on holiday with us (and other people) and still continued the affair. I told her once that she was a despicable person and then never spoke to her again. I was angry with him and filed for divorce.

Should I have tried harder then OP?

slightly off main topic but i get fed up with the amount of times posters on here are adamant that men are lying when they say they don't have sex anymore in their relationship and that they have become more like friends.
Some men will be lying but some will be telling the truth and there is no way of knowing other than asking their long term partner and getting a truthful reply and that's not going to happen. FWIW I stayed in my marriage for the sake of the kids and we slept in separate beds for over 2 years, with no sex and no cuddling and no physical contact. We were hardly unique and we are now divorced.

Listen, he was NOT the love of your life. Listen to yourself! You sound like some Mills and Boon novella.

DID YOU spend extended periods with the love of your life, or were they beautiful bubble moments of fantasy perfection interspersed with hopeless longing for the next moment of the forbidden, doomed romance? Honey, Romeo and Juliet did it a loooooong time before you. Along with every other 'forbidden love' myth... THAT is what sustained you, not 'love of my life'!

In the extended periods of beautiful loving time together with the love of your life, did he do a long spluttery crap and stink out the bathroom leaving the skid marks for you to clear up? Did he ever dismiss what you tried to bring up with 'you are being stupid/I am not talking about this now/why are you being difficult' before walking out? Did he use up all the hot water in the morning without caring about your shower running out? Did he walk in, say 'what's for dinner' - and immediately turn his iPad on to see the cricket score without looking at you once? Did he buy something behind your back without discussing it with you first? Did he never bring you flowers, perfume, or bother taking you out for dinner? Did your conversation eventually reduce to the children and budgets, because what was said at work, or what happened in the community, or a new scientific invention on the news WHATEVER was met with a grunt? Did he not speak to you for an entire day, and then expect sex that night, with absolutely no 'I love you so much, you mean everything to me', words to accompany it?

[Other wives where are you examples?]

Honey, THAT is what marriage is. THAT is REAL LIFE. What you had? A lovely feelgood fantasy. IF he was the love of your life, he would be there.

How dare you tell us any of this is our fault. 'When married men tell [gullible wide-eyed idiots such as yourself] others how their wives understand them, it is not for lack of trying [that is a quote from an infidelity counsellor by the way]'.

'My' OW also believed that we lived apart and that I didn't care. Sadly she was right about the platonic bit, I could not bear to have porn re-enacted on me by a dead-eyed shark. She found out how much she mattered when she got dumped when I finally found out what was behind his wierd unloving behaviour.

People like you, Listen, cause a lot of damage and pain with your lack of realism. EVERYONE in the affair triangle is damaged. You got hurt, and you deserved to because you chose this: it never occurred to you for a moment that behind all the honeyed words was a character with some very very bad coping skills. Notice how you were friends until HE sexualised it? Notice that he had a glorious fantasy life whilst staying married? As my IC (yes I am in therapy trying to repair a shattered life because of a woman like you) said: 'she (OW) got screwed too'. You won't like what else my highly qualified therapist says about the third person in the triangle (trying to get through my pain): she means NOTHING. She is a SYMBOL. Of: no demands, being free, AS FUCKED UP AS HE IS.

Think about it, OW. Time for you to get ANGRY about BEING USED.

girlon, very true. There are more than enough mumsnet threads about people not having sex with their spouses. However if a married man tells me he is separated from his wife but in the same house I would tend not to believe him to be on the safe side and not be interested at all. You say - fine - go forth, divorce, get it all 100% done, financially settled, buy your next flat/house and then start looking for someone else.

These are usually complex situations. We have:-

1. couple never have sex, one is fed up about it and seeks it elsewhere either with permission (rare) or without it (much more common) but wants to stay married

1. couple have sex but one of them just wants a change and some fun on the side; wants to stay married too (have cake and eat it example)

1. couple having or not having sex and one of them falls in love with someone else, is torn and has to decide if to stay or go.

Most divorces are initiated by women which is interesting. I speak to a lot of men about their divorce as I'm single and I would say something like 90% have been divorce by their wife and would have preferred to stay in the marriage.

If he's prepared to cheat then he's not worth either of you, let alone both.

Lunar 1 posted this upthread and it's exactly what I wanted to say.

'Do you know OP, the only person in this life we can control is our self. I know I will never be the OW, I know this because when I make decisions that effect others, even strangers I ask myself how I would feel in reverse. I would be crushed if my DH cheated on me, I would be crushed if my dad cheated on my mum and i would be crushed in the future if my boys cheated on their wives.

I know whenever someone posts that their DH has had an affair not to blame the OW, but that is a load of crap. Of course it is down to the husband to stay faithful to his wife, but as humans we have a responsibility to each other.

If my DH becomes unhappy in our marriage I expect him to tell me, not go running to another woman. If he did cheat on me absolutely no part of that would be my fault, no matter what. I am not an idiot, i know people fall out of love, but they should be respectful and either work through it or leave. A marriage is between two people and if it has to end it then so be it, but really OW and OM should wait for the divorce to be final before picking over the scraps. '

As someone who used to have the rather naive view about a kind of 'sisterhood', I have really tried to go with the 'it's all his fault and she has no responsibility' view. But in the end, I just can't. Of course he is far more responsible, but if she knows there is a wife/children involved then she herself is saying - fuck them, let them suffer, I only care about me and what I want. And that's utterly selfish to have so little regard for the pain of others. We are responsible for our actions and the pain they cause.

'Most divorces are initiated by women which is interesting. I speak to a lot of men about their divorce as I'm single and I would say something like 90% have been divorce by their wife and would have preferred to stay in the marriage.'

Aaah, Xenia, an important point! Because the answer is on the OTHER side of the coin: which is why?

ANSWER: women instigate divorce more [true] BECAUSE THEY HAVE GIVEN UP TRYING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITH NO HELP. Read Gottman and Skinner on this.

The reason for the giving up is in men's primary defense system, which is stonewalling. It is the final of the four horsemen of the acopalypse (Gottman). Skinner penned a brilliant article in the Guardian 'Men: when not to play a straight bat'. (He uses gulping then retreating behind a paper as an example).

Stonewalling (the refusal to own or face emotional problems the woman brings up) is the death knell for marriages (Skinner). The advice to men is: trust your wives. They really want the best for you. They are more knowledgable in this area of emotions than you are, do not shut them down.

But sadly, men do. And are devastated when their wives, who have tried hard to bring up issues in the hope of solving them, finally retreat and they lose the relationship they never wanted to lose, because they cannot understand why women are not satisfied with their role of domestic appliance with vagina attacment. As long as they are showing their love and commitment by providing, why are they being flamed?

I have noticed this in interviews with families for fathers etc. activists. They are angry and bewildered but they never seem to ask themselves 'why is my wife so angry and disilluioned? What did I do, to lose my family? There are so many men out there, my husband included, who are completely cut off from their emotions. It is MUCH EASIER to turn to a stranger like Listen for new sexual idealised narcissistic admiration, than solve the problems they are co-creators of.

On the not having sex thing, I've lived with that myself. So I know from first hand experience that there are sexless marriages.

ExH stopped being interested in me when I was in my mid 20's, after about 2 years of marriage, and moved me into the spare bedroom. I lived with only having sex very sporadically for 20 years. So yes, it does happen.

But with men who are cheating who say they aren't having sex with their wives, there's a good chance they're lying about it because let's face it, they know their chances are higher if they say that. Telling a potential OW that they love their wives, they have a very fulffillling sexual relationship with them, and all is great at home...to a man that's going to reduce his chances of getting what he's after. I would have thought, and I think a lot of men would make the same conclusion. That's why I assume they most are lying about no sex at home.
But it's not just the lies about sex. All this stuff about how the wife just couldn't live without him so that's why he 'can't' leave...he's such a good guy he won't leave her, but he'll step outside the marriage and shag whoever instead.

Thank you AbitWobbly, interesting points you make.