OW perspective

[ListenBeforeJudging]

I'm fully expecting a flaming...this will be long.

I've spent many months lurking and reading the posts about all the affairs and suspected affairs and to be honest, it's helped me get over my own hurt. It's not often that the OW perspective is aired and I wanted to just let you all know that we're not all evil home-wreckers. There are always two sides to the story.

I had a male friend at work. We were good friends for quite a long time - nothing more in it. Then one day, out of the blue, he confessed that he'd fallen for me. I was gobsmacked, hadn't seen it coming and immediately distanced myself - I was angry with him as I didn't know what he wanted me to do with that information as a) he was married and b) I'd never thought of him like that.

I had a lot of time invested in our friendship and knew him well (albeit only at work) and knew he wasn't the typical straying type. I considered him a genuine friend so over time we talked it through. He confided that he felt that his marriage had broken down and that he'd been wanting to leave for at least two years (they'd been married for 8, had married young, no kids and it had descended into something platonic). He was terrified of leaving as he knew his wife was still in love with him and would be very hurt. His whole adult life, his family and all his friends were wrapped up with her.

For months we tried to put the situation behind us and carry on as normal but he told me that for the first time, he knew that he had to leave as if was capable of feeling the feelings he had for me there was no way back to fix his marriage.

We became closer and I started to develop feelings for him but still nothing happened between us. Then he told me that he was going to tell her that it was over. I was away and didn't see him for a week and when I came back he said he'd told her that he wanted out and that the 'wheels were in motion'. It was then that our affair began. We fell deeply in love.

With hindsight this was my biggest mistake and greatest regret. Long story short she was devastated, he couldn't go through with the pain he was causing her and for the next two years we had an on/off relationship (while managing somehow to have a consistent friendship) while he tried to extricate himself from the situation.

Then she found out. He cut me out of his life 'temporarily' while he 'sorted things out' (by this point we no longer worked together). I waited 3 months before seeing the light and telling him that it would never happen and that it was over. 4 months after that he left her. It was too late for us. There had been too much pain caused.

He was the love of my life. I still miss our friendship. I've felt the worst pain of my life over this.

My point to this story? I never planned to fall for him although I accept that I made some bad judgements and got in over my head emotionally. I've spent the last two years regretting what happened. I dream about his (now ex) wife often and want nothing more than to contact her to apologise for the part I played in her hurt - but I know that would just be indulgent and of no value to her when she's trying to move on.

My genuine belief is that if all was well in a marriage there would be no reason for a man to find solace/confidantes elsewhere. My advice? Talk about your concerns with your DH - before things get to the point that you can't communicate anymore.

All I was trying to do was show that you can't always automatically paint the cheating partner (male or female) as a complete villain. There are two sides to every story...

You are quite and absolutely right, Caille. Absolutely. A person who choses to cheat is not an inherently evil person.

But there is absolutely not getting away from the definition of infidelity:

An affair is a maladaptive way to cope with issues that develop during the course of a committed relationship or marriage - issues that are not being resolved well, or that arise from problems that one or both of the individuals brings to the marriage or relationship... The cause of an affair can be as simple as poor communication or as complex as personality problems' - Rona Subotnik.

So really the actual issue is not the difficulty that drive it, but the fact that the response is MALADAPTIVE. Affairs if you have been on MN long enough, hurt EVERYONE in the triangle, with wider ripples of devastation to children, family, community.

I have never met or read any professional in this field that does not deviate from the theory: affairs are a very, very bad idea.

And that is what needs to be focussed on. Not how poor hard or misunderstood the person is who is choosing this incredibly self-indulgent route to make themselves feel better (at the expense of their wider family)

You know my H is now in therapy himself to try and repair the damage HE caused. It is really interesting what his gentle, kind experienced therapist focusses on: what is it about HIM, his childhood traumas and his coping 'skills' that caused him to choose this MISTAKE (her words), and to get him to focus on this vital issue without once mentioning or blaming anyone else. Not me, not OW, him.

Sadly OW was dimissed within the first 5 minutes of the first session as 'irrelevant'. And from that moment on only referred to as the fantasy and blank projection of HIS issues.

Harsh. Except that in my first shell-shocked session, MY therapist also dismissed OW within the first 5 minutes: 'She is irrelevant. She means nothing. She is a symbol'. And in my therapy, focussing on my issues, which revolve round why I allow him to do whatever he likes, thus reinforcing his selfishness (ie my co-dependency, my passivity). Lots of lovely beautiful love of life soul mate stuff, that!

To consent to be an OW and to be used like this you have to be fucking stupid neurotic and possessing zero self-esteem, in my opinion.

Shame: 'I always wonder if this part of the board would be so active in France.'

Yeeeeees. The major religion of that country also being the religion that has been revealed to have a severe problem in another area of dysfunction, hmmm.

A religion that has a few issues with denial and splitting otherwise known as pretending it doesn't exist, and sweeping it under the carpet.

All of which was identified all those years ago, when Martin Luther banged his 99 thesis on the door of the Cathedral. And which is distinguished from the new branch of religion by 'magisterium v. personal responsibiliy/a personal relationship with God'.

Which, funnily enough is replicated economically in the split in the Eurozone.

I can't believe how vicious, vile and downright judgmental some posters can be. As humans, surely the reason we make mistakes is that we don't recognise them as mistakes at the time, because of whatever else is going on in our heads...A mistake is a mistake, but why are some mistakes 'okay' on this board, receiving reams and reams of sympathy and understanding from decent open-minded people, while other mistakes receive reams and reams of vicious bile from armchair experts with little better to do than automatically flame someone because she has admitted to an affair? Those of you saying 'it's simple, if you're unhappy, you leave', have no idea.

The OP came on here to offer a brave and honest account, probably in an attempt to get some of the nastier posters on here to think a bit more widely... there is never any harm in seeing someone else's perspective, it's called being tolerant. Just as posters on here say it's inappropriate or patronising or whatever for a previous OW to offer 'advice' (and why shouldn't she? she has as much of a right to be here as any one else), surely there's a case that anyone who's had an OH who has been unfaithful isn't exactly neutral either? Think about it.

Reading about sisterhood etc etc make me vomit anyway, but it's as if there is a club in this forum: if you admit to an affair or dare to offer a thread of sympathy to someone who has, you get flamed, you are a lesser human somehow, and certainly not part of the MN sisterhood, and certainly not 'welcome' on this forum.

Time for a judgment of my own: I hardly ever come on MN anymore, because I have realised it is a sad sad sad place to be... surely those who have the time to be on here so often have so little going on in their real lives, they are hardly well-placed to judge others and their experiences. Get a life first?

I was an OW once, my marriage was failing, I had tried everything for a number of years, trying to talk to my DH, explain what was making me unhappy and worried about our relationship, trying to get him to help me fix it... it fell on deaf ears, and I had an affair. That's right, I CHOSE to have an affair, or rather I chose not to walk away when it developed. I fell in love, or thought I had, and so I fessed up very quickly, because I felt it was the right thing to do for ME and for my DH, and I left him. In fact, I did what so many people on here say you should do. This is years ago by the way, nothing I did was because of anything some faceless name on a forum ever told me to do, I worked it out for myself).

Upshot of that was that my DH threatened to do himself in and take the kids with him. So I came back. Want to judge now?

And I am not coming back to post again, I can't be bothered. This post is not intended to start another debate, it's just to stick my oar in, as do so many others. I have a right to do that. Respond how you like, or don't, it make no difference to me. I am off to get a life.

I can agree that having an affair does not make a person and evil person. But that action is a bad one. But there is never and excuse for an affair.

Yes people make mistakes. Whatever the 'reason' for the affair, its wrong. The 'reason' is an excuse. Simple. Telling people that they should recognise the problems in the marriage to stop an affair is wrong. I don't get the reasoning that is I didn't want to leave so had an affair. Doesn't make sense, at all.

You sound very angry 40. However I think your anger is misplaced, it's not the posters here, who have made your life so hard, and trapped you with a man who threatened to kill your kids.

So personally attacking people for not "having a life" is you lashing out at your own situation. Which isn't fair.

I can really see both sides. Sometimes the primary relationship isn't given the full priority in a marriage.

I wanted to leave and eventually had an EA. My DH didn't want me to go and basically, after 6 months of counselling/ talking he gave a business presentation on why we (him and me) should stay married. It was incredibly persuasive so i stayed. Bizarrely, we're quite happy now. Our relationship is that of good friends but our kids are happy, our social life is great and we only run one home. Other than as sexual partners we do everything together as a team. Wouldn't work for everyone, but it works for us.

How many people on here have actually studied psychology or counselling? There are some very harsh statements.

House ofPlain, I came back to respond to you, because you made a reasonable point. But you have misunderstood the tone of my post. I am not angry, my life isn't hard, it's bloody brilliant, I am not 'trapped' as you put it, I am grateful that I have a stronger relationship as a result of my 'mistake'. I came back, we talked and talked and talked, and we resolved a lot of issues. We are together now only because of that. We have issues like any other couple, and we work to resolve them, as I always tried to do, but he did not. Only now do we work better together. NOT that I am advocating an affair to end up with a better relationship, so don't anyone jump down my throat in that context..... I am lucky, my DH is lucky, we are lucky, our family is lucky, and I never forget that.
And just so no one misunderstands, I wanted to leave and told my DH I wanted to split, BEFORE I even met the OM. DH wouldn't talk to me to try and work out a split, he blanked it completely, ostrich in the sand syndrome. Again, those saying 'just leave if you are unhappy' have absolutely no idea.
Maybe the fact that I was once an OW will make some posters ignore me totally because they see me as invalid somehow, I couldn't care less either way. There are always valuable insights other than one's own, it's so sad that a lot of posters won't even entertain that.....

including you it would seem?

Yes SeaShell, because I have lost patience with the bile on here.

you can't get away from the fact that everyone brings their own experience to the table, whether it's good or bad or indifferent. Obviously some posters will feel strongly about the impact of an affair, having lived through one (either as the 'wronged' party or the 'wrongdoer'). I don't think anyone has been particularly harsh or unreasonable, they have simply shared what they feel to be true, based on their own experiences. Naturally there are a lot of conflicting point of view - that's why it's a public forum where debate is encouraged.

Stepping outside of the scenarios and personal experiences though, surely it's obvious that while there will always be reasons why someone has had an affair, however these are not automatically great excuses? And despite human beings being fallible and that we should all be allowed to make mistakes etc, the nature of having failed to do the decent or brave thing at the time - which most of the posters on here saying they were OW or had affairs have admitted they now feel they did - by definition, if you made a mistake this means that there will have been a consequence (which is going to have been negative to at least some, if not all, people involved?)

IF an affair is a maladaptive response to your own life/stress, and all posters (including those who have had one) agree it's basically a mistake, why the need to justify/instruct the cheated on partners to take responsibility?

I am perfectly willing (and always was) to take responsibility for what happened in my marriage... but as soon as there were 3 people in it, that became irrelevant. It was no longer a marriage, it was a mess. I can't be responsible for choices between two people who are nothing to do with me... that's the thing. An affair isn't about a marriage. It's about the people having the affair, surely?

FWIW yes, I've studied psychology. It doesn't make it easier to live through though.

'Harsh. Except that in my first shell-shocked session, MY therapist also dismissed OW within the first 5 minutes: 'She is irrelevant. She means nothing. She is a symbol'. And in my therapy, focussing on my issues, which revolve round why I allow him to do whatever he likes, thus reinforcing his selfishness (ie my co-dependency, my passivity). Lots of lovely beautiful love of life soul mate stuff, that!

To consent to be an OW and to be used like this you have to be fucking stupid neurotic and possessing zero self-esteem, in my opinion.'

Abitwobblynow well you would say that wouldn't you. All those things above may be true in your case but not in everyone's... I absolutely do not agree that every OW is irrelevant and means nothing. Ok of course it has something to do with childhood traumas etc etc but it also must have something to do with the state of the marriage at the time and before.

'Fucking stupid'... rather rude wouldn't you say

Choco, you sound rational and sensible, so I'll respond to your post... I've never made excuses for my affair, because there aren't any. But nor have I ever needed to come up with excuses. That's why I stressed the point in my longer post that I consciously chose not to walk away when my affair started. I could have done, and I didn't because the truth is I didn't want to by that point. You're absolutely right, an affair is to with the people having it, not the marriage. I had fought for my marriage for a number of years, with not one gram of a look at any OM, nor a desire to. My marriage was already finished and I knew it. It takes two people to have a marriage, when one person doesn't do their bit, it is inherently impossible for the marriage to function in the way that makes a marriage about more than sharing a house and the bills. I never blamed my affair on my OH, that was entirely my choice. However, I DID blame him, and still blame him, for his failure to contribute, to grow up, to open up, to talk to me and to help when our marriage began to founder. What I chose to do when I realised that our marriage, at that point, could not be fixed, because I needed him to help me fix it and he wouldn't or couldn't, was very little to do with my OH by that point, and entirely about me because by that time it was too late. I had loved my DH deeply, we had been a through a fair amount together, but when the usual strains and stresses of a 15 year marriage, house, three kids, two jobs, started to hit, he and I failed, together, to work through it. And not because I didn't try.

I think if people can get beyond the OW status, that is what the OP means when she offers advice.

Well said 40

Why, thank you CalliJ

OP, I really don't think you have anything to beat yourself up over. He was unhappy, they have no children. Sure it would have been best allround if he had sorted this out with his wife first. He was a real emotional coward not to look at it all objectively, leave her and then see if there was anything to be gained from a relationship with you. I'm afraid lots of women who tootle along in relationships making zero effort and lots of demands subscribe to the view that affairs don't happen because of less than satisfactory marriages - they do this to delude and justify their behaviour.

40, was your affair partner single or also married ?

you see I have sympathy for someone disastrously unhappy in their marriage to look outside of it if their spouse is unable/unwilling to work with them to improve it

but why contribute to the destruction of someone else's marriage too ?

wouldn't it be better to choose someone single, since you are implying there was an element of choice in what you did ?

I get where you're coming from, and I can see how in your relationship, that's what happened. That's why your relationship has succeeded despite the affair - you have been able to take responsibility for the reasons and actions you had...

Sadly this debate is so fraught with emotions because it is impossible to apply generalisations to other peoples affairs, and stay meaningful. In your case, your marriage was struggling for reasons personal to you and your DH. But other people don't necessarily live the same experience. Sometimes it is about someone being plain selfish, and nothing to do with them being neglected or stonewalled etc. So saying every affair is the result of a selfish prick is another meaningless generalisation, agreed.

BUT - that's the point. It's not about why my H had an affair, or why you had one. Or why my marriage ended and yours has been renewed. Objectively speaking, in as far as it's possible to be objective, the simple facts are: healthy relationships are between two consenting adults, based on honesty and trust. They are conducted openly and bring happiness to those involved.

Affairs on the other hand, involve two consenting adults (where the OW/OM actually knows about the spouse - many don't) and at least one adult who doesn't consent. Therefore they have dishonesty and a betrayal of trust at their heart, are conducted covertly and bring unhappiness to at least some of the parties (if not all) involved. It's not about being inherently evil as individuals, but certainly it's about being unhealthy in your attitudes to relationships. I simply don't see that an affair can ever be about people with great self-esteem affirming themselves in a positive way.

So...I don't think it's unreasonable to say someone (esp the OW) willingly participating in an affair is probably suffering low self-esteem and has low expectations for themselves. I doubt anyone goes out of their way to become a third wheel in a marriage, do they? The reasons are always negative for an affair. It's never because we just feel great and have too much love to go around is it!

"on this forum" 40 ? Not on this thread ?

you can't answer a simple question ?

Methinks the courage in your convictions is bit shakier than you would have us believe

That is honest on one level, at least

Well said 40

"What I chose to do when I realised that our marriage, at that point, could not be fixed, because I needed him to help me fix it and he wouldn't or couldn't, was very little to do with my OH by that point, and entirely about me because by that time it was too late"

so you divorced him?