Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships Number *9*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Thanks pink, I will try that. Maybe the circle of confidence will also be FW proof? . Thanks also veeee and fool (yes mum ).

veeee you sound normal to me too, it's natural to be a bit emotional when you go back to work. For me, I was looking forward to going back into the work environment, but I also felt guilty for sending DD to nursery so young (she was 5 months), and a bit resentful of NSDH for pushing me to go back so soon when his savings he'd squirreled away would have meant I could have taken another few months off. Agree with fool that he's trying to sideline you. My NSDH has never bought DD a toy so I get most of hers from charity shops, their joy is the same whether you've spent £1 or £100. :)

Evening - hope you don't mind me butting in.

Veee - you sound totally normal to me. Returning to work is a really emotional time. Agree with fool. He is just playing power games with your head.

Of course your dc would never 'choose' anyone over you. You're their mum!

My H plays games like this - he used to tell I should leave and not take the kids as I was useless and caused all the problems. Now he generally just yells insults - like the word bitch in all it's various combinations since he found out how much it upset me.

Currently waiting for the verbal to kick off as H has a busy week at work this week and is feeling underloved by his parents (esp his dad) atm - understandable as they have a toxic close and interesting relationship. But obviously they (like him) are perfect, so cannot possibly be the reason he's feeling so umpty. Cue scape goat stage right...

Charity shop gift sounds good - children don't really notice if something's sparkly new, more if it's something they really like.

Nini - you sound amazing. I can't imagine studying with small children. I studied when one of mine was a 7yo (and had only 1dc) and that was really tricky at times. Good Luck with your exam, tho it sounds like you've put the work in!!

Fool - the poundshop have some great highlighters in. Could you do no 3 with helpful highlighted sections, or would you need to cover the whole book for NSDBil?

to Veee and Nini, I'm afraid I don't have any useful advice for either of you but want you to know that someone else is supporting you x

Thanks bb99 and Doing . Knocking the study on the head for the night and gonna go get some sleep, DD is very unsettled tonight.

or to everyone tonight.

Jugglingwithtangentialoranges posted this in the other (unfinished) thread this morning. I'm off to close down thread 7 to avoid probs...see you in a minute

Can I tell you all how I'm feeling ?

Went to a lovely family party on Saturday, really nice to see everyone, Dcs had a great time with all their cousins.

H had quite a bit to drink so I said I'd drive home. I'm not particularly good with directions and thought H would tell me the way while I did the driving. There were only a couple of key junctions to get right, but I wasn't familiar with the area. Basically would have been easy enough for H to do, but not so easy for me.
H started playing games on Ds's gadget, and didn't tell me we needed to turn off, so we missed the turning. We had to go on to next junction and as there was a traffic jam on way back it added about half hour to our journey. It was already quite late. So it was annoying. But I took it all quite philosophically.

H on the other hand spent the whole half hour being quite abusive to me, saying I was stupid, an idiot, I never did anything right etc. etc. Created a horrible, aggresive atmosphere in the car, really unfair on DCs as well as me. Eased off quite a bit once we were back on the right road.

It isn't a one off. It happens virtually every time we go anywhere, for over twenty years. The car is the worst place for this for us. I want to get a SatNav as think it could ease things quite a bit, but he is reluctant. Says I'm hopeless with technology and wouldn't use it. (But surely he could use it if nothing else ?!)

Think I need to get the Lundy book. Feels like he has to ruin every happy day - that he just doesn't want me to be too happy - Or doesn't care about my happiness at all. Makes me very sad (Will try to remember the happy day we had at the party, and forget about the car journey. But there's only so many times you can forget before you realise it always happens)

Hello all,
stumbled across this amazing thread last night by pure chance. Some fantastic info and support, highly impressed!

Just reading through some of the links and recognise a lot of what is there.

Would it be ok if I joined? I am currently making tentative plans to make a move out and away from my DH and know I will need unbiased advice and support.
In a nutshell, he has an alcohol problem (which he denies) but it is all my fault. I am a nag, I am a control freak, it's the recession's fault he can't get any work, I am a hormonal lunatic, I am mad in the head and never recovered fully from my severe PND, my family are all judgemental nutjobs, my friends are all nutjobs as well, I am a bad mother, I am fat, stupid etc etc.

I try so hard to detach and at times it works, but deep down I can't help feeling that things won't change or they may even get worse. There are phases of great, positive, loving times and fun with the children, but I don't think he can see what he is doing to himself and to us, despite admitting openly in marriage therapy that he deliberately puts me down and creates doubt in me so he can "win" as often as possible.

Anyway am sure everything I am saying rings a bell with some. There is so much more background etc but I won't bore you all! I have an opportunity at work to take redundancy and receive a large lump sum, so right now I'm thinking - take it, leave DH, spend some time at home with my DC and figure out what to do next. At the moment I work fulltime and I spend almost all of my free time doing everything at home, keeping the family ticking over. Financially I can't afford to leave and I don't want to borrow or ask friends/ family for help so this seems like a good option.

Just one question, what's a NSDH?

Oh juggling that is so, so familiar to me...every outing, every trip in the car something wound him up. You are not alone.

normal relationships accept that mistakes are made, sometimes accidents happen, it is not always someone's fault and even if it is they probably did not do it deliberately.

But in our stupid half lives...it's always someone's fault (but never our partner/husband's), usually ours and its always such a DRAMA.

Please please do get the Lundy book....you will immediately realise that you are indeed sane...and what you put up with is not!!

keep posting if it helps (hope you find us over here)

Just a wee rant before I get my head down for studying. DD had us up most of last night, crying and whinging, think she might be poorly. It got to about 1am and I told NSDH he needed to sleep in with her, as I've got to get the last of my studying done etc etc. So he sleeps in with her (although I still didn't sleep well as I could still hear her).

He brings her into the room first thing this morning complaining that he's so tired he's 'feeling faint'. DD on the other hand is bombing around the place lol. I reminded him that I still needed him to take her out for a few hours and asked him where he was taking her. "I don't know" he says. He started snapping at me and stomping round the house. I got DD dressed, packed her bag and sat down to have my breakfast (I wasn't even dressed at this point). He brings DD back to me and tells me to take her for 10 mins. Why where are you going I ask. He then shouts at me (in front of DD) that he's going for a 'fucking dump' and stop questioning him blah de blah. I told him swearing in front of her was pathetic.

While he's having a 'fucking dump' I got DD's stuff together and put her in the car (still in my PJs). He comes out of the house and says "I could really have done with it being sunny today" (it was just starting to rain). So I told him it wasn't sunny so he'd just have to get on with it. He turns to DD and says "Let's get the fuck out of here DD."

I waved them goodbye, that was 5 mins ago. I'm still in my nightclothes and haven't had a cuppa or breakfast yet. I think of all the times I've supported him through his busy times at work, doing all the cooking, cleaning, being a sympathetic and enthusiastic ear. And the ONE time I need him to support me and help me out, he reacts like this.

Has he taken that step from being a NSDH to being a FW?

I need to try and calm down and get my head in the books. As if this exam isn't hard enough I have this home life to contend with.

Not So Dear Husband! We also have Soon To Be X Hs and some FWs (fuckwits) too! I'm quite new to this thread so I'm sure some of the originals will be along soon, but being self-employed I have lots of time to MN my working hours are quite flexible so I'm on here a lot!

Commiserations on being one of us, but welcome Sounds like you have a good plan. Financially, there are always ways - if you can nail the emotional side of things you'll be in a much stronger position too.

Waving hello to juggling and forsale, really sorry I don't have the time at the mo to post, but I promise I will later. The other lovely ladies here will be of great help. Sorry you both have to be here.

forsale

you are very very welcome!

NSDH is Not So Dear Husband

some use FWH F**k Wit Husband

the brief summary of your relationship sound almost identical to so many on here, some of us have left, some are still with the abusive other half, some in flux (!!)

For what it's worth in my opinion it sounds like you have a golden opportunity to reclaim your life and to build a better one for you and DCs.

I always thought FW stood for 'F*king wnker'

Thank you so much "foolonthehill" - It's so good to be understood.

• Thanks for copying my post over here too.

Your simple kindness and understanding has made me cry this morning - after the abusive stuff from H at the weekend.

dd was so sweet yesterday too, and picked me a little bunch of roses from the garden which she gave me with a lovely little note. "Beautiful roses for a beautiful Mummy" - I'm so lucky to have her DS too gives me some great hugs.

What to do with DH though - I really don't know where this is going ...

Could be Nini! And lots of people read STBXH as stupid bastard x h too!

Speaking of which, my stbxh has just texted that all 3 of my DCs now want to stay with him tonight as well as last night even though DS2 didn't even want to go for one night yesterday and DD was crying that she wouldn't see me til tomorrow night when it was first suggested.

He also said that I need to drop DS's coat off at school for him as he forgot it. I told him as it was 'his day', he can collect the coat and drop it off at school as I'm busy this morning. Is that fair?

Juggling, I think there's only one thing you can do with someone like that, which is to stop trying to please them. Whether you can manage to maintain any sort of relationship is one question only you can answer, but you know you'll never 'win' in that situation, which is soul-destroying.

I had the car thing too "you could get a bus through that gap, is that how you're leaving it parked? Why don't you go the other way, its much quicker" (then googling the map to prove his point when we get home) It got to a point where I never drove him anywhere, even though I've driven my children to the other end of the country and drive regularly as part of my job. When he was in the car I felt so self conscious it made me a nervous driver.

You've found the right place.

My FW ex used to play the blame game too. If I made a mistake he took it as evidence of my madness! If I raised any issue with him he would not address it, but immediately retaliate with blame that I had done something similar.

Thanks for the welcome and the explanation! Funnily enough NSDH is known as FW in my own head and when I speak to a particular friend about him.

I think a turning point for me last week where a light bulb went off in my head was something simple, but typical.

I deal with the finances. I control them more or less completely as otherwise he would drink every spare penny. He doesn?t like this but it?s the way it is. I am the only earner the majority of the time so all the bills come out of the account that I get paid into. Last week I got paid and I had decided that there was one large bill that I wouldn?t clear this month to try to manage the finances a bit better. However the company processed the direct debit before I could get a chance to stop it. I thought it would not be processed at the weekend, but it was. When I realised that this had happened my first thought was fear of his reaction and disappointment that I knew very clearly that his reaction would be anger, criticism and storming off to the pub. I was right, that was his reaction and he is still sulking and angry 4 days later. I am a moron and now we are broke and are going to struggle to pay the childcare that we arranged because he was going to be crazy busy with work all summer. The work hasn?t happened and it?s now July. I should have known better.

Anyway this is just one example in a long list. I?m worn out and tired and have been sick a lot in the last year and I need a break from this shit. :(

Sorry to see so many others in the same position.

Juggling, I get that too at times - then other times he proudly tells people that I am the best female driver he knows and he always feels safe in the car with me. .
When my DD does something like that and adds "Daddy shouldn't be mean to you cause you are the best Mum ever" it just breaks my heart. She is really starting to notice what's going on (she has just turned 5). :-(

forsale the children always know, really. My 5 (and a half!!!) year old had been massively protected from the abuse by her brother and sisters but even she says...Daddy can't come home until he stops shouting and being angry all the time. he has been gone 8 months, some days I feel almost normal!

No-one can tell you what to do,but I thought leaving my NSDH was impossible and wrong...in the end I had to, for the sake of DCs and me. Best thing I have ever done. Also the hardest. he remains a prize twat and still thinks if he plays the victim long enough he will be back. How wrong he is.

nini- wishing you lots of sleep tonight!! and a good day and good luck for the exam - it's tomorrow?

Please exscuse - just venting...you really don't have to read (honest)

Am on tenderhooks atm, H has been supergood all weekend (?) tho still good at not hearing me or spending time with me (never has been, never will be ) and has barely supressed rages. He is v. v. pissed off thoughtful about his parent atm as he is feeling underloved. They dumped an arrangment they had with him to go out with his sister, so it is understandable, although I can't say anything and even that will be wrong. If I agree with him complaining, then I am being mean to his perfect family (obviously they are perfect just like him). If I make any comments about, oh well it may be because X or perhaps they didn't realise how important Y was to you as they think you are a v. v. understanding person then I am not being supportive as I am agreeing with their actions and if I don't say anything then I am being mean to him and ignoring him. I always get it when he falls out with his family - obviously he can't say anything to them as he's so afraid they'll chuck him out of the family and has no idea how to have a normal relationship (mind you they score fairly high on the weird and toxic relationship stakes).

So now he is 'just' ordering me about RE the dcs, as in if I am saying something to them or telling them to do something, he tells me not to do it/speak to them/interupt them in front of them. Actually makes it quite difficult to parent as why should they listen to me when H is basically telling me to shut up everytime I open my mouth. Think he has resorted to this as the normal behaviours haven't got their normal reaction out of me lately - rage hasn't worked, storming about hasn't worked, being rilly ill hasn't worked, telling me I'm ill hasn't worked, being mean to the kids hasn't worked (1 of them told him they didn't want to be his friend anymore, and for now he seems to value their relationship above taunting me) so am back in a state of flux and tension.

Have been reading up using the links (thankyou soo much fool) and it is quite sad. I have tried to be an understanding and supportive wife, but basically how can you do that to someone like H who is, in my opinion, just such a broken person. I cannot fix him and he won't admit he has a problem as he doesn't mind being the way he is. He actually went as far recently, to tell me I have manipulated him and turned him into the person he is now, using my female powers and psychological powers (I have a Bc, tho no further training in that career path). This just seems such a crazy thing to say - why would I manipulate him into being such a sh*t???

He also feels ha has the moral highground...

BB, you've hit the nail on the head there "I have tried to be an understanding and supportive wife, but basically how can you do that to someone like H who is, in my opinion, just such a broken person. I cannot fix him and he won't admit he has a problem as he doesn't mind being the way he is"

There is nothing you can do with him or for him that will make him any different. People on here say you have to change your own behaviour, which you have done by not giving him your normal reaction to things, but you are still the one in a state of tension. You have to stop understanding and supporting him and start expending that energy on yourself x

continued stream of consciousness...

He feels he has the moral highground.

When his insults became violence once and more than just body blocking and pushing and face-shouting and finger in the face and fist waving and persuing me around the house shouting etc (this is really difficult to admit/type - it took me several years to even briefly mention this to my closest friend - and then I couldn't bring myself to add in any detail, just a 'oh he kinda did a little bit of this to me once...') I never told a soul what had happened. I couldn't even tell the policeman who came to the house that he had tried to choke me (they got as far as the 'has your partner tried to strangle you- - and I lost the power of speech ) I couldn't tell a soul as it felt so unloyal - why would you get the person you love in the sh*t and make them look bad???

When there is a row, often the dcs will get upset if they are about-d'ooh, obviously lots of shouting etc is not good. So I am becoming better at trying to avoid them - not to the point of being perfect, just not 'winding him up' or 'provoking him' or doing all the other annoying things I obviously do to make, in his words, 'the red mist come down' -just an exscuse for him to behave badly I know.

Anyway, earlier this year I was v. overtired and we had a row, dc3 was crying and he was holding dc3, who was reaching out to me for comfort. I was told I was not allowed near child, as I was crazy and mad and out of control (had been shouting back and just got so twirled up I threw a plate at the wall - I was on my own in the kitchen H was yelling at me from the other room) I know I behaved badly but reading on here I am starting to think I understand why. It is just not possible to have a rational discussion with H - he twists it all around and has even admitted arguing is like an exciting game to him - it's all about winning (so QED I must be the enemy/opponent)

Well I was really stupid and tried to go through H to get to dc. You can imagine how well that worked out...

Big dc heard me choking as H masterfully held dc3, held me at arms length by the throat and squeezed (oh, but everso gently - only a v. v. small amount of bruises...) and callled the plods (thankfully, I think) So now H tells the massive story of how awful I am and how he has to put up with this and that and useless lazy non-working sponger wife, how he has to do all childcare as soon as he gets home, look after himself, gets treated awfully and NOW she has attacked me....I just tell other policeman that we shouldn't be married... What's the point of going into details - I know what will happen, nothing. If I press charges H will lose job, I will be MASSIVELY in debt (joint mortgage) and he will press charges back - how much harder is life with an adversarial court case, I could just imagine his DPs...

Then he rings/txts/emails just about everyone he can, who he knows will give a posative response of 'oh poor you - crazy wife...' (note he didn't call his OWN parents) even calling my parents to let them know how awful I'd been and insisting they came down to talk it through with me. This was a good thing as my dear mother is lovely, plus they have seen him acting up in the past, snappily verbal etc. So they then witnessed him 'discussing' (tho obviously he can't really have a rational discussion, so he did start getting cross when I wouldn't just agree with everything he said) all MY problems...

So now he has the moral highground. I am the problem, plus when he attacked me the first time, I swore I would chuck him out if he ever touched me with anything but love again. Now I have thoroughly cocked THAT one up - he knows/thinks he can do just about anything and I have lost my backbone...

Ha ha ha - if he evre did read this, he would tell me I was making it up...

BUT - I am in a state of flux and really trying to get out of this wreck. Am starting to think about plans and futures. I have spoken to my mum, although not in much detail as she would be really mad I put up with any of it, or let the kids get tangled up in such a mess (she would be supportive - I jjust don't want to feel like I've let anyone else down). H and his family will fight really hard to make me look the bad guy and keep all or any finances. I have started over in the past. WOW,it's tricky.

Really don't expect any response, just typing it all down helps to make it a bit straighter - I am too embarrassed to really tell anyone what's going on in RL, beyond cryptic hints. On the outside, we have it all and he's a real charmer.

BB99, sorry but I had to laugh reading what you said about you turning him into the person he is with your psychological powers. Sometimes some of the stuff they come out with his actually quite hilarious - other times I am rendered speechless by the complete lack of logic in what has been said to me.
Now can you teach me your method and we can use our powers for good?!

^I cannot fix him and he won't admit he has a problem as he doesn't mind being the way he is^In fact he likes being the way he is because (up until recently) it has got him what he wants.....keep this phrase in your head I cannot fix him, I have done my best, my best is good enough

^ He actually went as far recently, to tell me I have manipulated him and turned him into the person he is now, using my female powers and psychological powers^

Oh to be as powerful as that...think what a wonderful husband you could conjure up!!

I cannot fix him, I have done my best, my best is good enough

duh...I'm a fool for a reason it seems!!!