Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships Number *9*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Ignore the fucker. If they say anything to you just say the list is because NSDH is so irresponsible, unreliable and can't seem to remember half a dozen things without a list.

Yes to all your list fingers but guess what? I'm not confused any more! I've been out 21 months now and life is pretty good. Today was DD2s birthday and I was invited round for a birthday breakfast cooked by FWH and it was all lovely. I noted his narcissist tendencies and laughed to myself silently, chatted for a while then left her to enjoy her day with her friends.

All the DC are happy and prospering as am I and in fact even FWH would admit his life is not ruined. Although the looming prospect of the financial settlement is unnerving him now. He wants to keep the big house, pay me off, but continue enjoying his upmarket lifestyle and sadly (!)it may not be possible.

I have detached, don't get upset any more, and just observe and smile wryly. I check with the DC that they are not being brainwashed by him, but twenty years of my parenting has left them level headed. They leap to his defence if I criticise him, but I imagine they do the same for me!

For those of you still in Spaghetti Head mode, be patient and look after yourselves with small kindnesses. It will get better. You will be happy in the future. I never thought I could reach this point of calm happiness but I did!

Hi Lemon My girls are just sorting out how to deal with their parent being two, not one. There have been ups and downs. I have insisted on everything being out in the open and, although FW can be trusted as far as I would very much like to kick him, the kids are ok.
I think, when I told them why I had kicked FW out and wanted very little to do with him in the future, they thought I would ask them them join me.
They now seem to realize that I trust them to work out their own relationship with their FW because I can say that here father.
As far the terrible confusion, and horrible depression, and the unbearable feeling of there being no way out - all those feeling left with FW and have not shown their faces :)
Have no idea how to sort my life out at my age - but I am sure I will.

I don't think it makes any difference what age we are, it is no harder at 50 than at 20 really. It is just that the prospect of being responsible for earning enough to keep a roof over my head and the bills paid and something saved for a rainy day seems very daunting now I am a single woman again after the shelter of a very long marriage. I am trying to enjoy simple things that don't cost a lot.

I'm sure you'll get there. Just take one small step in the direction you want to go every day, and you will arrive eventually!

Going to sit down with bills and numbers on Monday.
I know I can do it and, never having had a wealthy lifestyle, I don't mind cutting down even more.
I suppose, what I really want is what I can never have: the free air of the moral high ground.
Lundy is right; FWs saying that 'there are two sides' etc. etc. is the first step to blaming the abused partner for everything.
Lundy is also right (actually, of course, he is right about everything when he says that it is no fing (my addition) good for the wrongdoer to say that they will stop (of course they fing won't) even if they do. To heal, the abused needs reparation.

fingers that was scary reading your response and realising it isn't me but him - that you guys 'get it'. the realisation is hitting more and more that this isn't normal, - and its hard to realise my dreams of a happy marriage are really not happening (even though in practice they have not been happening for 3 years)

i feel the same about the prospect of starting over again - terrified! a small baby, no money, no job. but if it is to be done, i know God will give me the strength.

He will Jan. When I left DS was only 2, and scary as it was, I was so much more relaxed with DS, and he is now such a happy little boy. If you don't or can't get a job straight away, there is help out there. Ask for it if you need it. Don't let finances hold you back, they can be sorted out.

Did anyone have step children or still do if you are still in the relationship? I could do with some support, but don't know where to post about it

Just wanted to say thanks for the welcome. Have been thinking a lot about stuff and posted on another thread where it sounds like the Op's DH is also EA.

I guess the crunch is, what do i want? I don't want to trash our entire relationship as it is not awful all the time. I think in reality i will end up just making sure i look after myself and by extension DS and hope that as he gets older there will be less stress and arguments. (As i said on the other thread, this year is less bad than last year

Is this year less bad than last year because you're more used to it Romilly? Just asking...

Amitola I don't have step children, I can't help, sorry. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon

Thanks anyway. I'm still looking for a thread I might actually belong on and get some support. If I start my own people just direct me to others and then i'm ignored. I guess this site might just not be the right one for me

Amitola I don't have stepchildren either. But you stay right here! [hugs]

Romily I lasted a long time in my marriage, until kids were grown, and we had enough money that ex kept threatening to leave (I was upset at first, but then I got to thinking about it...). I was, however, sustained by false hope, and under the illusion that my depression was due to having bipolar - I now think I was very much misdiagnosed! I did manage to have good times though - but v few featured ex.

jan and fingers - we can do it!

Thanks having a very low day and thinking of handing my boys over to him and giving up. I don't want to live like this anymore and can't seem to get free of these people.
I've been threatened with a restraining order if i have anything to do with his daughter again. I was really nice to her but she told people I upset and threatened her?! She is nearly 13 and is being brought up to be a liar and manipulative but it still hurts. He knows what I said and said it sounded perfectlt reasonable. He is now lying and saying he was not happy for me to speak to her, even though he clearly was.
My ex and his family are emotionally abusive, in fact they are all totally fecking mad!! I expect this from them but its now from all of them and his ex wife and his children, all making out I am the problem. This is all since I took out a non molestation order against him. Nobody believed what he was doing to me. His statement for the court portrays me as the abuser.
I was the only one treating her and her brother properly and with any respect and now this.
I understand his daughter must be having a hard time and that is all anyone has said so far, but I could really do with some support for me.
I can't do this anymore

Amitola it is very hard when you are the only one behaving with dignity and honesty, especially when DC or SDC are involved. I have a friend whose ex (who has custody) is indoctrinating their DD, she of course finds it hard when he uses the DD and contact against her, but is standing firm and realises all she can do is be consistent in her support for her DD, and not to bring it into their relationship.

As for me, my DD is 20 and believes it is my behaviour which has been unacceptable and caused our divorce, as I have not been prepared to bad-mouth ex to her. Somehow, we have managed not to let it affect our love for each other, though.

Do you know the words to Fool on the Hill? The fool is the only one who sees clearly, and stands firm, at the cost of being alone. True to his(her) understanding of the world.

'But he never listens to them, he knows that they're the fools'

The above is also by way of thanks to fool.

Stay strong, ladies. We are not alone!

Amitola I have Stepkids with DP. They are now 16 (DSD) and DSS is 11.
DSD was a nightmare aged 13. But to be honest that was more to do with her age and issues with her dad having moved abroad after the divorce. (I had nothing to do with the Divorce; met DP 2 years later.) The irony is the more you are a safe stable person, the more DSC's (or even DC's) will lash out at you.
Now our relationship is better. DP stirs it a bit but i just keep my distance and try to see her on her own with DS (he is 20 months and they get on really well) when i am in the uk.

Would recommend that you post any specific questions you have re: DSC on the steparenting board

TodaysAGoodDay i know what you are saying about this year being better than last.
Last year was particularly difficult also from practical reasons as DS was a few months old, not sleeping well, ditto me and being in france i had very little support - practical and emotional - no mums groups in rural france.
Looking back, i also suspect i had a bit of pnd. So we were arguing most days.

I think DP despite having had DCs of his own was not prepare to / for the emotional support i needed and i felt trapped and like i was going mad. now DS is (a bit) easier life is easier from a practical sense and i have found more support structures where i do not have to rely on DP for emotional support as that just sets him off if he has emotional stress.

He is brilliant at all things practical y life easier in that sense (& therefore makes mand i just let him get on with that and i muddle along by myself and vent elsewhere.

I guess i have also got more boundaried at what i will accept as acceptable behaviour. i have no issues with being assertive in RL, but being a new mum and literally isolated in france had me struggling for a while.

I wish we lived in an ideal world, where DP and i never argued and completely understood each other, but lots of other things in my life are good, if i am honest, as the pinkpussycat described her marriage

Thanks Romilly, I have tried a few times but nobody responded. I used to get responses when I was with him but not anymore.
We had a good relationship but her father hated that and seems to have worked very hard to destroy it since we split up. It slipped out to him that I was upset at how she was being with me and he smirked, so I know it is him behind it all.
I guess i'm just upset because this is it. Her mother doesn't want me seeing her or her brother as I guess she feels threatened by them liking me. Can understand that, I would too if I was in the same situation. I won't be in their lives at all anymore and I can't protect them from the abusive influences.

Actually it seems that since the ex finally left this house, he and his family have got much worse. Has anyone expereinced that?
They calmed the abusive behaviour down for a while, which I think was partly due to me challenging them on the way they were with the children and the things they were saying. Now they are painting me as evil and from what I can tell, getting the children back where they want them.

Amitolamummyjust had a look at some of your posts, do you have a Dsd (aged 13) and a Dss (age?).

Just briefly, it looks like you just need to step back a bit and trust that based on the good relationship you had in the past they will come back to you in the future when they are older and not under the influence / dependence of their (EA) parents.

From what i have read, EA people (eg your ex) just look for someone else to abuse and as we know, abuse is mainly about control, so it sounds like he is trying to control the one thing you care about, which he has control over - you dsd. so probably best to pretend to her dad you don't care any more for her sake and then resume contact in a couple of years when she can see things differently...

Amitola I guessed you had already tried the step-parenting board. It is yet another instance I reckon, of people who haven't experienced EA themselves just not getting it.

My friend has to have contact as she is the mother and also has PR. But she was so concerned at her EA ex's behaviour messing her DD up that at one point she did think of stepping right away for the sake of DD kind of like in the Judgement of Solomon. She has not done so, and continues to fight for more contact. She has decided that the way forward is to accept what little contact she has, while fighting for more, and that he may succeed in turning DD against her, but she will always be there for her.

Sadly you don't have contact rights, I think Romily's advice is good, although it's sad that you may have to do this.

My NSDH got a lot worse on leaving the house...it's not uncommon.

In common with my name (thank's pink) I advocate trying to see things clearly and do the right thing, take the high ground and trust that people will see you for the good and gracious human being that you are.

Some won',t that is their loss.Some will eventually see. That is your and their gain. Not everyone will see the world as you do, that is inevitable.

I am afraid in the case of step children as legally you have no standing after you split with their DP you have to leave them to it and trust that you were a good influence in their lives for the time you were there.

If circumstances and relationships mean that you keep some contact then be glad and consistent in your dealings. There is no other way.

Thanks everyone. Yes, nearly 13 yr old dsd and 10 yr old dss. My ex has spent years trying to turn them against me anyway so i don't know why i'm suprised. He didn't like the fact they liked me more than him. He didn't do the logical thing and become a better parent though, clearly because he was perfect anyway!

I'm finding other peoples responses to my situation really hard. Nobody seems to understand the effect emotionally abusive people have both on adults and children. I've even been accused of using my sons as a pawn because i'm trying to stop him taking them to his parents house. They are bordering on evil! I'm trying to protect them.

Pink that sounds awful for your friend :(

I had no idea how much people protect abusive people, whether unwittingly or on purpose. This sucks

People who haven't been there often can't see it at all.

Try to take strength from those who do understand (us for example) maybe try counselling with a specialist (talk to WA) but at the end of the day you only have one life...you get to live it.....only you can choose how and with whom.

I might try WA again, they haven't been very helpful so far because i'm not in a refuge. Thanks, i'll try to follow this thread more because it seems to be the only place anyone understands what i'm talking about.

If you can get a support worker then this is usually helpful. WA were worse than useless for me for the first couple of months due to their staffing levels etc. When I finally got to the top of their list they were great....but I'd got theough a lot of the problems alone.

Thank the Lord for Mumsnet!

i went to WA once, they were very good and said if i wanted they can give me one to one support, and if i chose to they would help me apply for council housing/benefits etc when that time comes.
we finish our marriage counselling at the end of the summer. until then, ive decided im going to make a real go of our marriage, give it everything ive got - and i know ive been holding a lot back because in the back of my head ive been wanting and thinking about leaving. im going to put that aside until the end of counselling and see if we can make this work. he is also committed, and i can see he is trying to help me a lot more and change. i really hope and pray things work out. if they don't, i know i will have support to leave.
i am so sorry for all everyone is going through here. the emotional roller coaster is a nightmare, its exhausting, and it drains you. someone said to me about taking back control. thats what im doing, im trying to take back control, i won't allow him to affect me or dictate how i live my life - and if he can't handle it then ill be leaving.