Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships Number *9*

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

If you find that he really wants to change
I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I understand Pinkpussycat. I will never get myself is such a situation again where I im so up against a wall that I have to fight back to the point of no recognition.

Ok, I don't know why I'm typing this, I've been searching for advice/reading on this.

FW wants to see me today and has made it quite clear why. Sex. Alot of people's stories seem to describe sex lives that weren't enjoyable, coercive etc. Horrible, horrible stuff. Not the case for me.

It's time for me to acknowledge that a big part of my attachment is sexual. Now, I realise that no sex, however great, is worth the abuse I get. A man that abusive, no matter how attracted to him I might be, should get to be intimate with this body. I find it all so difficult. He turns me on so much just to look at, and as soon as he touches me, or says something, I want him.

There. I said it.

I know I'm not that shallow. I'm writing this because it's very overpowering. I don't understand. I really want to. Even when we don't like each other (alot of the time), the chemistry remains.

I just wanted to get it out there so I can work through it. I think this is key to releasing the hold over me.

Oh Anstasia sweetie

What did you think we'd do? Criticise and condemn you? Don't be daft. We all have needs, and a man who's good at it is a real magnet, whether he's the abuser or not.That need is such an overwhelming feeling it is difficult to say no to someone you know that well.

Just try to think of the consequences all the time and that may help. I don't know what else to say, sex with my ex (the actual - ahem - penetration part) lasted less than 30 seconds so I guess I'm lucky because it means I don't fancy him at all! Useless, rubbish, pathetic idiot. And yes, I did ask him if we could get it sorted, offered to go with him and everything, he just refused to acknowledge that there was a problem.

I'm glad mine wasn't as good as your ex sounds, I may have found it harder to leave him. Try and give some excuse as to why you can't even meet up, then you don't have to see him. Think of what he'll do to you afterwards, that could help you say no.

we all have needs

Well, the thing is, I didn't think I had needs before him. I'd been in a long term relationship (my first and only boyfriend, lovely man), the sex side of things had waned, I never wanted it, and couldn't perform (I'd seize up). Then boom, I meet FW and realise, I actually do like sex alot, and he and I are very compatible. So maybe it's just him, maybe it's deep seated in that I have positive associations. It's exciting, varied, I feel desired (which I suppose is a universal need). No wonder I like it.

I've slept with one other person since, and that was great, not as intense (partly because still were getting to know each other, partly because both of us in complicated situations, so lots going on), but I know I can enjoy sex with someone that isn't FW.

Thank you for your understanding. I'm finding using this thread like a journal to come to some realisations. The more negative things happen, the easier I can detach.

One thing I am glad about is that I did enjoy sex with ex. I had isshoos from mild childhood abuse, and I felt safe with ex in bed. So I at least had a good sex life - before lack of respect for him, and his trying to define himself as my carer because of my mh, and the menopause, robbed me of my wanting him in a sexual way.

Just thinking aloud, really.

Anastasia do not meet up with FW for sex. Sex with abusers can take the form of violent rape; rape = non consensual sex or sexual activity. However, it can also be wonderful - or as in my case withdrawn as proof of power. Check Lundy on all of these - the wonderful sex is there, too.
What all these have in common is that sex, like everything else is just part of an abusers agenda

Agree with fingers - but you weren't going to, were you? Good sex can press your bonding buttons, v dangerous.

Confession time.
I texted FW to tell him what I had told the girls about my plans. FW seems already to have put the idea in their head that I am making plans without telling them. I won't have them used as go-betweens and I won't have it said that I have ever done anything underhand.
I then said said he could phone me. The texts had been civil and, as I leave the country in three weeks (Leaving the girls here - they will join me later), I felt/feel that FW really wants to fuck with me big time, and tell everyone that 'she's an unnatural mother and just went off without telling anyone where where she was going or if she was coming back.
There is also the fact that he has taken thousands out of my account - money which he says was his . Money which was spent on him (and I won't go into detail on what) while refusing to pay for DD2s birthday party or DD1s school trip.
His latest is to keep offering me money either to 'fuck off back where I came from' or as a generous charitable hand-out to the impoverished you bet the fuck I am! FW spent all my savings
Both of which came up in the telephone conversation which ended of course with FW screaming that he hated be and hoped I would die.
I can't win the money battle, and don't want to. He is more than welcome to everything.
After this long preamble, sorry the advice I desperately need is how to play this endgame.
The girls are being wonderful and DD2 seems to be coping better. But can I really just get on a plane on the 10th with no idea of what FWs plans are?
I don't know what game he is playing and I really don't trust him.

Deep breath, fingers. No need to decide anything right this moment. Take a day or two to think, do some of that thinking 'in the background' as it were, while you go about your everyday life.

And if push comes to shove, yes you can just get on that plane on the 10th with no idea of what FW's plans are.

Hi Pink I have got somewhere to move into when I get back on the 1st September. Tiny studio flat - bit dingy, but right near DD2s school. This seems to have reassured her no end. Her anxiety is what made me suspect FW of stirring, but maybe she was - quite understandably, just anxious.
I suppose it is the senselessness of all this that I can't swallow. But a trip through MN relationship threads shows that FWs don't appear to be generally big on sense - so I wouldn't get any out of him anyway. That thought of random senseless destruction does my head in, though. You can bet your bottom dollar that no random senseless destruction of FW has gone on - just of me and the girls. :(

my main thought fingers is that you are so worried that you are going to be painted blacker than black that you won't take care of yourself in terms of finances and relationship with DDs.

he is going to hate you and bad mouth you whatever you do. You will not be able to build up the DDs, protect or look after them if you let him ruin you financially. You MUST take control of the financial side of things. Get your name off the bills, sort out the financial contributions, make sure that you are not liable for anything you are not using. it is important. you need to show your DDs how to do this too. To stand up for what is right and fair, not to be guilted into doing things his way because you still think you are a bad person doing something bad to him.

Please please make sure that you areas capable in this as you are out of the home. make sure you tell the DDs everything that they need to know. including how much you love them/worry about them/want to be with them etc. DO NOT let him guilt you into anything.

take care

PS who cares if you texted/talked to him you have children unfortunately you can't just cut and run and it sounds like sometimes a reality check helps to keep you on your path.

Don't expect him to play fair..he won't he doesn't even know what that is. he is not in the same place as you, he does not know what might be reasonable....

It is senseless, and destruction is the right word.

I just replied to exOH saying I wouldn't be taking him up on his invitation/offer. I feel quite sad about it really, but that's probably partly because I'm listening to some really miserable music on R2. Time to put on some stompy music instead.

And yeah, I enjoyed sex with my exOH, when it happened. I always had to instigate it and I never felt I could totally abandon myself because he'd made some unpleasant comments about my figure and so I'd be thinking is my belly wobbling etc.

I do miss having someone to snuggle with in bed. I miss that more than the shagging to be honest.

Thanks for replying Fool Talking about finances - what happened to your cheque?
Of course you are right. FW will bad mouth me whatever I do.
I am not worried about the bills. It is just a matter of a phone call to change names. It is just a pain and yet another thing I need to do
while FW is off leaving destruction - a daughter who needs to take her final year exams and another teenager who loves her father and does not know what to do, while Mr. Very Important FW can concentrate on his Very Important Job.
But then - you know all about that ... :(

yes...the script is not unfamiliar.

as for the cheque...it was post-dated so could only pay in today..I have sent a receipt detailing how it is allocated...so much for half of the interest on the mortgage, so much for his life insurance...so much for buildings insurance and remainder (oh so, so much as you can imagine...not!) for maintenance for the DC. Just need him to know that he is not paying over the odds and that as long as he insists we keep the house then he has to fund it to some extent as I am doing everything else.

fingers is there really no way that you can get him out and stay with the DDs at home???

Anastasia physically wanting your partner even if they are abusive isn't something to be ashamed of, sexual chemistry works in mysterious ways. My NSDH is physically almost the opposite of my ideal man, but for a long time I fancied the pants off him and the sex remains the best of my life (like others I was sexually abused as a child so found physical intimacy difficult). Unfortunately for me that all changed when I fell pregnant and its never been the same since - he totally went off me as he felt having sex with me when pregnant was 'weird'. Then after I gave birth he continuously pestered me for sex, which turned me off, and the rare times we've done it in the past year (not for at least 3 months now), it was really awkward and really crap. But I ramble.

Fingers, Fool and Pink are right, the best you can do is be there for your DDs, there's not a great deal you can do about FW's behaviour. Hope you're ok.

I've not had the greatest day but no energy to post about that yet so will do so soon.

Well today was one of those days that in the past I would have considered a 'normal' day but now seems anything but. Ashamed to say I've let NSDH 'back in' a little bit.

We went to a fete today with friends and I've been looking forward to it for ages so I admit I was a bit chattier with him this morning. It was going ok (although we were both a bit on edge trying to get out of the house in time for it. I could feel the pressure rising. Our friend was driving us and DD and we had just got to the end of the road when I realised I hadn't locked the back door. I asked NSDH if he had and he snapped at me. I said I'd forgotten to lock it and he yelled at me in front of our friend "How COULD you have forgotten!". I replied that it was just a mistake and not the end of the world, but feeling suitably humiliated, and our friend quietly drove us back home so I could lock the door.

The fete went ok, but we were in public so NSDH was playing the 'good father' role. I don't know what to think really. We got home and NSDH decided he was going out this evening with friends, and when he went he held open his arms for a hug. Part of me had this massive urge to go to him for a hug but I resisted it and walked past him shaking my head. He said "I just want a hug." I said No, and off he went.

The subject of Father's Day came up and I mentioned in passing that as I didn't get anything neither would he tomorrow. He then said in a loud voice that he had agreed to go to a football game with me the day before Mother's Day - although I pointed out I'd bought the tickets. Had no idea that was my 'Mother's' Day present. .

I don't know what to think anymore. I'm tired of thinking about anything, I can feel myself slipping into this depression where nothing seems good and there's no way out that won't cause pain.

Watching Bridget Jones which always depresses me!

Sorry to here your struggling ninilegs sending kind thoughts your way

fingers I am worried about the way your FWH seems to be able to manipulate you into walking away without a fight leaving him with the house and all the money. You have a right to half of the marital assets and probably more as his job pays well and he can restore his finances in the future while you will be in a more difficult position.

To say that you don't want a fight and don't want him to call you greedy is all very noble but he will bad mouth you anyway from what you have said. I am learning that the world does not end if I stand up to my FWH even though he gets angry (or pained and disappointed) if he doesn't get his own way!

Be strong for the DDs sake if not your own. But dammit be strong for your own sake too!

Hi everyone.
Thanks for being there yesterday .
Something very strange - but very good :) happened yesterday.
I phoned FW to make sure he acknowledged my text with my arrangements. Off he went, of course saying that I was mentally ill and needed treatment.
Now there is a moment in the great Lundy's book when an abuser tells his wife she has always been a klutz, and the moment sets her free because he totally misses the mark. She just looks at him because, she says, she has never been a klutz
There is mental illness in my family, as there is in FWs, and most families. All this means is that I am sure that my mental health is really quite robust.
All the names he has called me over the years are just silly, but this is the first time there has not even been a tiniest worm of suspicion that he might have a point :) :)
Thank you wise women.
I do need to look long and hard at finances, and I promise I am not being cavalier about money. But the separation agreement makes FW legally financially responsible for the DDs, so that, at least gives them some protection, and, actually, I believe he will respect the agreement. By selling the flat, I can guarantee that they have cash available in September.
I have applied to increase my hours, and have a well paid short term contract in Britain.
I think I just need to the math and make sure it adds up.
Sorry to bore everyone about money
So, Fool your FW will have paid up life insurance ... only joking.

arthritic that's great! The lightbulb moment is so lovely isn't it? I remember mine clearly even now Your mental health is quite probably a lot more robust than his. Don't forget that.

nini Bridget Jones used to depress me as well, it's not a helpful movie for those of us in this sort of position . I hope you have a peaceful Sunday, and don't get too much shite from the NSDH.

You can't bore me about money, fingers!

Still trying to setlle with ex, he is supposed to be looking at my latest cash flow projections today But I do quite like doing them

Thanks Today :).
It wasn't really a light-bulb moment. More like not being in someone else's script any more, so whatever they do is their choice and script and no longer relevant to me. For years and years - actually up until yesterday I have been beating myself up asking 'Why does he do that?' as if I were part of his script and somehow responsible for his terrible behaviour.
That feeling has gone away. It is so weird - I suppose it will come back, but even one day without it is wonderful. I suddenly realize that even by wanting to tear him limb from limb, I was actually playing right in the middle of FWs script.
FWIW, I don't think he has mental health issues either, much as he would dearly love to have something, anything to pin his behaviour on!
A strong and wonderful Sunday to us all!!!!
p.s.How's it going Pink?

OK, will know more later I hope although this depends on FW

I will also be preparing my case in case we don't settle.