Absolutely LIVID at what Mother-in-Law has just said to me. What to do? please help.

[almosttoolividforwords]

I have name changed for this one.

I have 2 DC aged 6 (from previous relationship) and nearly 3. My marriage has been very up and down and if I'm honest I think we would be be out of the relationship had it not been for the DC.

MIL has been very interfering from the start but I have let it go, despite different friends and even my counselling lady (for trauma I had in past) having said that they are worried about how she acts. MIL has intimated on a couple of occasions outrageous things like -

5 years ago when me and H moved in together I overheard a conversation where she asked H if he really thought he should be moving in with someone who already has a child, that she "never thought he would" and was he really sure it was the right thing for him etc . And also telling him that he would "always have a home here you know that" . double .

Also once she expressed disbelief that I wanted to go back to work after my maternity leave (having no idea of our financial situation at all) and she said in a phonecall to me "Money means more to you than children" !

H does backshifts and I do days so he often brings the youngest to MIL's during the daytimes. Tonight I got the following text message from MIL when DC back home and in bed -

MIL "How is (dc1) and (dc2)?"

me - "fine. how was (dc1) today when at yours?"

MIL "fine but to be honest he didn't want to go home so that makes me concerned"

me - "what do you mean exactly by that statement?"

MIL - "what do you not understand what the word concerned means?"

MIL - "I'll put it in simple terms to you so you maybe can understand. little (eldest dc, nearly 7) is sick of doing house work that her mother should be doing, she is 6 not 16. and as for (youngest dc) you deal with the bonding before you leave it too late. and maybe cut down on your shouting in front of them"

WHAT IN THE NAME OF ?!!!!

I in no way force my eldest to do too much housework at all. She does age appropriate things like hang up socks, quick swish of her sibling's highchair with a baby wipe, "help" me clean out hoover by holding open the bag, tidy away toys etc. If anything, it was MIL who spoiled H and now he is a lazy sod!

As for the bonding thing, I have no idea what she is on about. Perhaps she is deranged. I had PND with my eldest but I didn't even know MIL then and I was terrified I'd get it a second time but didn't get it, but thankfully I never and have a lovely relationship with DC always cuddling and kissing him, maybe not so much publicly in front of her.

I do shout, but no more than most mothers I know!

All I can guess is that it is her way of trying to undermine my role as a mother. Because there really is no truth in what she says. H has a nasty habit of saying (nasty) things to me in arguments about my parenting but is generally more loyal and did stick up for me when she had her comment about me going back to work.

Does anyone have any advice on this? It has really quite scared and intimidated me. Should I cut down her contact by drastically cutting work hours (she does see them a lot) and not allow her to see them on weekends or anything if she is obviously just gathering "ammo" to use against me? I have been shaking with anger for ages over this. Phoned H at work and told him but he is busy and gave a curt "It's none of my business" response .
aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh

X posted OP - please avoid talking to your 'D'H about splits / leaving - you can be sure he will repeat stuff to MIL and she's an evil witch who will know to start scheming. You really do need to be as sweetness and light as you can until you get more legal advice.

Remember you both has parental responsibility the police will not interfere and demand your ds is returned to you unless you have the necessary legally enforable paperwork etc

This is what worries me, and is keeping me stalled. I keep thinking "but surely not. I know they don't care about me, but surely they care about eldest DD even a little, enough not to try to take her brother away from her and scare / confuse her because she doesn't know when she will see him again?" I know it's a stupid thing to think, and that they may still try that, but it's just seems so completely unfathomable to me why someone would try to remove a child from their other parent or sister. I just don't get it, can't seem to get it in my head. The first solicitor said that it does happen and if no residency order in place or interim interdict against removal then the police have to get involved, emergency court and social services, and also have to prove that DS has been in fact mainly resident here (this part is what worried me and made me want to try to regain main carer status first before trying anything legal as they could turn around and use the 4 days pw he has been there the past 18 months whilst I work).

If the worst came to the worst I could go to my dad's and DD could still attend school (with difficulty though and I couldn't work around that schedule I don't think, it's too far away - I'd just get back from the school and be too late to get to work at 5pm). I don't drive, it's 20/30 mins by car but at least an hour on public transport as not direct, and both my dad and sister work until 3pm every day.

No, no physical violence.

Yes, you are both right, I know I shouldn't argue with him. It's difficult not to be angry and emotional though. But I will try to stop it.

This is why I think it is important that you keep calm and reinstate yourself as main carer.

I would tow the line to the extent of sending MIL a text "I'm sorry about today I didn't realise you were expecting to have the dc. I have various things planned over the next few weekends."

Keep h happy by keeping MIL quiet so the grief is coming from her not you.

What are your h working hours?

H working hours are

6pm - midnight or 1am on Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed

and 6pm - 4am Friday and Saturdays.

Not once has anyone mentioned what's best for the children & how they might feel when you take them off. One of the children is YOURS ( where's her father) the other is ours. They are used to being with MIL, why subject them to court hearings. If you want to split up with your husband fine but FGS put the children first, not your power struggle.

Mine at moment are 9am - 5pm Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

Was going to cut them to 2 days 9-5 to become more of main carer because when I'm at work and DD at school and afterschool club H often takes DS to his mothers because he is tired and lets her do the childcare, which is a huge problem and I think how she cements (in her own mind) her importance and control. I can actually see how he is tired, watching DS all day from 8am then having to start work as soon as I come home right up until midnight / 1am. Whereas I work all day yes, but when I come in I can sit down and rest around 8/9pm. I think that's why he takes DS to MIL during day and stays up there. But if I only take 2 shifts a week on (bank shifts) then he would only have the chance to do take him up there 2 days maximum.

RedHelen do you believe it is in the best interests of children to be poisoned against their own mother by insane MIL? A MIL who rules the roost over the children's DF?

Sounds like they love their nannan & she is trying to voice their opinions (re the housework for eg.) Where does it say the MIL is insane?

RedHelen, I didn't once say I was going to take them off, it is my MIL (backed by H) who are the ones clearly trying to alienate me from DS life. I have been bullied reasonable to the point of making extreme concessions to them (like not having friends round because some are unjustly deemed not good for DS, not going to family events because of how difficult they make it if I do go). I am periodically getting told that I'm an unfit mother (in many different and varying ways), child abuser (!), if I ever put DS in a childminder he will not be living with me, etc.

I have no problem with the DC having good amount of contact. The problem I have is when I'm being pushed out of my DS life unless I do something to protect myself legally.

DD father was never interested after he realised what the reality of what a child involves, and buggered off when she was weeks old. We were both relatively young. They have intermittent contact (which I never obstruct in any way) but mainly he does not bother with her sadly.

I posted right at the beginning of the thread and although I haven't anything useful to add, just want to add my support.

RedhelenB I've noticed you have posted on a couple of threads going against the grain today and although your opinion is up to you I think the way you have spoken on the threads has been quite unecessarily hostile.

Normally I wouldn't say anything but I think the threads you've posted on have had OPs who need help not judgement or rudeness.

I'd say the most insane part was telling me I need to sort out the bonding with my own son! (when there is no way anyone would ever conclude I haven't bonded with my son), and also telling me when she WILL be coming to collect DCs without discussing with their mother first then getting hysterical when refused and demanding to be informed prior to doing anything with DC on weekends.

Or telling me that I'll see my son when he's 16 when he was 4 months old.

Not being hostile, just putting another POV Poch. I thought the idea was to get some ideas & a different perspective so that you can make decisions or why else post?

You didn't read my post properly.

I said that you are welcome to your opinion and to post on here, after all that's what it is for. You aren't exactly sensitive in your communication style and that is what I was pointing out.

Your their mother almost, it's not a competition. She's their grandmother & will carry on seeing them whether or not you split up with your husband - nowhere in your posts have you said she is a danger to the children.

RedHelen: have you actually read through the entire thread? If you had, you would not be posting such unhelpful comments.

I never wanted to be in competition with her in the first place.

2 shifts per week sounds fine, your dh will be more rested anyway perhaps he could have them Mon and Thurs and then it will limited MIL to 2 days per week broken up.

Can you try and play MIL bingo in your mind. I think it will knock the wind out of MILs sails if you continually appease our H - don't let MIL have her own way by seeing your ds extra but say to our H things like "I didn't realise MIL had plans, I'm sorry that she's upset - perhaps she could email me her plans so I can let her know if things clash" I suppose I'm trying to say is kill her with kindness whilst playing the longer game of establishing yourself as primary carer. It will make it much harder for your MIL to play H off against you.

I would tow the line to the extent of sending MIL a text "I'm sorry about today I didn't realise you were expecting to have the dc. I have various things planned over the next few weekends."

I think Random has it spot on again here, OP. You MIL will be hoping for more confrontation via texts etc - more ammo to use against you - so playing the kindness card (through gritted teeth) is definitely the way to go. There can be no comeback and, more importantly, when she tries to berate/plot with your H, she will start to look irrational. Difficult, but as someone said above, this is about playing the long game and by responding positively, you're back in control.

Your

Right the first time loony, on the grammar. Not sure about appeasement, but it's down to the OP how she wants to play it.

Your MIL, not You MIL.

My suggestion wasn't to appease i.e. in the sense that I'm not suggesting that the OP offer her MIL anything, but sending such placatory texts will give the MIL less ammo IYSWIM.

Anyway, of course it's up to OP. Just trying to help...

The long game worry that I have is that even when the split is achieved and OP is with her DCs at Dad's or established as a single mother in her present house, H will move totally in with MIL, and the children...I would not be surprised if at that point DD will not be included or as welcome in MIL visits....will be in her care every time they visit their father ... the parental alienation will continue worse than ever. She will absolutely get the big guns out when her son is no longer shielding you (sort of) just by living with you. And when you have come out with strong legal action against him. He will say that he can't afford to live in a separate place of his own.

I think you should talk this over very thoroughly with your lawyer and consider having him write a lawyer's letter to MIL explaining what the repercussions to her will be if she influences her grandson against his mother. It could explain to her that she is harming her grandchildren. I am fond of a good lawyers' letter. They put the fear of God into the guilty party without actually taking concrete steps that can't be undone. They are not expensive. I hope it might be possible to bar her from further contact if you cannot be satisfied that she will desist.

Then if it comes to a separation and court case later, you have the letter on file as history.

Alice8 you are making a very good point indeed.

Thank you Random. I do agree with all your points.. The umbilical duo of adult son and control mad old Mother is a very tough one. The grey area behavioral crimes like parental alienation are so hard to prove and so damaging.

I think she needs allies. When OP's Dad gets back from Portugal maybe they can put together a stronger position.

But am thinking now that everything you can do, dear OP, to consolidate your primary carer status is to the good. Guard the children's happiness day and night and don't let any old cow tricks separate you from them. Both you and H are working so hard...whatever you can do to lighten the stress for both of you will pay off.

There might still be unforeseen developments. When H finally learns that you are serious and are taking action, he might do some sort of volte face and you might be able to work something amicable out with him. To not alienate him entirely for as long as possible seems wise.