Absolutely LIVID at what Mother-in-Law has just said to me. What to do? please help.

[almosttoolividforwords]

I have name changed for this one.

I have 2 DC aged 6 (from previous relationship) and nearly 3. My marriage has been very up and down and if I'm honest I think we would be be out of the relationship had it not been for the DC.

MIL has been very interfering from the start but I have let it go, despite different friends and even my counselling lady (for trauma I had in past) having said that they are worried about how she acts. MIL has intimated on a couple of occasions outrageous things like -

5 years ago when me and H moved in together I overheard a conversation where she asked H if he really thought he should be moving in with someone who already has a child, that she "never thought he would" and was he really sure it was the right thing for him etc . And also telling him that he would "always have a home here you know that" . double .

Also once she expressed disbelief that I wanted to go back to work after my maternity leave (having no idea of our financial situation at all) and she said in a phonecall to me "Money means more to you than children" !

H does backshifts and I do days so he often brings the youngest to MIL's during the daytimes. Tonight I got the following text message from MIL when DC back home and in bed -

MIL "How is (dc1) and (dc2)?"

me - "fine. how was (dc1) today when at yours?"

MIL "fine but to be honest he didn't want to go home so that makes me concerned"

me - "what do you mean exactly by that statement?"

MIL - "what do you not understand what the word concerned means?"

MIL - "I'll put it in simple terms to you so you maybe can understand. little (eldest dc, nearly 7) is sick of doing house work that her mother should be doing, she is 6 not 16. and as for (youngest dc) you deal with the bonding before you leave it too late. and maybe cut down on your shouting in front of them"

WHAT IN THE NAME OF ?!!!!

I in no way force my eldest to do too much housework at all. She does age appropriate things like hang up socks, quick swish of her sibling's highchair with a baby wipe, "help" me clean out hoover by holding open the bag, tidy away toys etc. If anything, it was MIL who spoiled H and now he is a lazy sod!

As for the bonding thing, I have no idea what she is on about. Perhaps she is deranged. I had PND with my eldest but I didn't even know MIL then and I was terrified I'd get it a second time but didn't get it, but thankfully I never and have a lovely relationship with DC always cuddling and kissing him, maybe not so much publicly in front of her.

I do shout, but no more than most mothers I know!

All I can guess is that it is her way of trying to undermine my role as a mother. Because there really is no truth in what she says. H has a nasty habit of saying (nasty) things to me in arguments about my parenting but is generally more loyal and did stick up for me when she had her comment about me going back to work.

Does anyone have any advice on this? It has really quite scared and intimidated me. Should I cut down her contact by drastically cutting work hours (she does see them a lot) and not allow her to see them on weekends or anything if she is obviously just gathering "ammo" to use against me? I have been shaking with anger for ages over this. Phoned H at work and told him but he is busy and gave a curt "It's none of my business" response .
aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh

Just to add my view, I would def not take the job. I think it is going to be really important (for your DCs) that you are there to do bed and bath time when you and H split - life will be unsettling enough.
Also, for you it will add extra worry about DH taking them to MIL overnight. You will be creating this opportunity. Also you have enough on without changing jobs at the same time.
You said they had lots of vacancies - just go for it in 6-12 months once you are established in your new life. There is no reason it has to be now? (I agree tell them them you would have loved to take it but family / childcare mean you can't at the moment or see if they could offer different shifts?)
Much better to reduce your current days and spend the extra time with the DCs for a bit. Focus on consolidating what you have.

Good luck whatever you decide to do - I can't imagine how horrid it is and has been for you.

Alice, that is exactly what I am scared of happening, and why I am hesitant to split with H.

In the past when me and H were on much better terms with each other, MIL used to hold her tongue mostly and not interfere. H would put her in her place for interfering in our lives too. However I've always known she doesn't like me just from her mannerisms and disrespect (and with her warning H against me before we moved in together), acts at times hysterical and that she has an unhealthy relationship with H - even his best friends will say that.

It has been the past 18 months or so that me and H have really not been getting on, which coincided with me going back to work after DC2 (that's not the reason I don't think, just the way things went). The past year things have been even worse between us and we are both tired of it, and H has been spending increasingly more and more time at his mothers. This has no doubt pleased her immensely, which is why I think she has recently stepped up her campaign. I think she feels (and she is right going by what H has been saying) that she has got H on side now.

The recent nasty texts coincided with her overhearing a phonecall between me and H where we were arguing and I (rightly or wrongly) said I think there may be too much water under the bridge, I don't know if I love you anymore. He was being pretty nasty himself. He said loudly at one point "well you have just said you don't love me anymore anyway" and then I realised I could hear MIL snooping around in background. A couple of days later (obviously sensing a permanent split) she sent the nasty out of the blue texts.

I keep thinking if I split with H he will obviously not be happy about it (even though neither of us are happy and we hardly see each other anyway but for some reason he doesn't want to split) and so he will move back there and side with MIL even more. And the combination of her vitriol against me and his equal PR may spell trouble for me. Also, like you said Alice8 as it stands now we are supposed to be a 'family' so H does most things with DD the same as he does with DS. However if we split I think DD would be cut out of the contact a lot, leaving an even more precarious situation, not to mention upsetting for her.

He called me and offered this evening to change his hours (he can do this as he is supervisor position) if my pay rise would absorb the money for the hours he would lose, and have the kids at nights until 9.30 so I can take my job, as long as I don't put them in childminders. I was really perplexed by the sudden change and suspicious . He kept saying "just do what you want, I know you will anyway". Perhaps he has thought about the fact that I know I can likely get back to daytime hours within a year maximum with this job (high turnover of staff) and the fact it's permanent when both our jobs are temp at the moment so not secure. Or perhaps he has tricks up his sleeve to go for main carer . He was working so refused to elaborate further.

Even more bloody confused now.

Don't be in a hurry. Just live with the confusion a little longer and take one step at a time. I get the feeling you really want this job. I just don't think you should take it if you can't feel secure about him. He'll end up taking the kids to MIL for entertainment and meals ...it is such a slippery slope. If he is alienated from you then he is going to turn more and more to his Voldemom.

Maybe you should make a huge effort to get some counseling for you and him together before this goes much further. I would love it if you find a therapist who would call MIL in for a chat with you both. It's just a brick wall without more cooperation and trust with H. I get the feeling he will really suffer if he loses you no matter what a jerk he is being now. He never had a chance with a mother like that.

Yes you are right. I don't think I will get a start in the job for a while anyway, but I'm one of these people who need to know what is going on, have a clear plan, and I obsess over things until I get a solution / decision. I have always been like that - it drove my family insane when I was younger.

I do know there is no way I want to take the job if it is going to screw up my relationship with my son, but yes I do really want it, have worked so very hard for it despite all this shit going on for years, 2 young DC and other personal stuff going on. To have gotten to the final hurdle and then having to not take it would be very hard for me. But nowhere near as hard, not even in a million years, as my son being taken from my care and alienated from me.

On one hand, I want to be really cautious and not take it, but on the other hand I keep thinking to myself - if there is a good chance said the manager of getting a change to either 8-12 or 1-5 hours within 3 months to a year max then would any court realistically take DS into H and MIL care if we were to split up in that time? Considering that if we split up, I would have to quit the job immediately and regain main carer anyway, because I couldn't have DC going to MIL every night 5 times a week that's for sure. It's one thing H having them in our home if we are 'together' and I'm returning from work every night, but a completely different ball game DC going up there every night (that is not a go-er). Maybe I'm overthinking this and I should just take it and get stronger with them and realise that 'they cannot take your son away indefinitely and shared residency seems to be worst case scenario'

Very difficult. I sort of feel like whatever I do, she wins really.

I go to counselling , but H wouldn't go. for certain. I don't know if relationship repairable. We can mostly rub along together day to day without much conflict for about 6 months now (although we don't really see too much of each other and just have practical relationship) but it's just too much hurt from the past and hurt that he could actively condone his mother treating me like that which makes me and . Don't know how I could ever feel secure in that.

Hey,

I have been in a similar situation and I really think you should turn the job down.

Your DS is 3 years old and I don't think a court would look favourably on a situation where you finish work at 9.30, including travel home and picking up children from a child minder you're looking at 10.30/11 pm before your children go to bed on a school night which is really no good tbh. in this situation, your H could say to the courts that the children should live with him at his mothers for the 3 days you're working so at they have a stable supper/bath/bed routine and not being collected late at night and walked home from a child minder. I have experience of this where the children lived with their father on the mothers work day, the judge loved the idea that the children were brought up by family and not a child minder, please believe that this could be strengthening their case. The fact that your job hours may change in the future would not be a plus point as the judge will be looking for a stable long term routine.

In your situation, I would stay in the job you're in now. Split up with H and make your own decisions. If you're not together he cannot stop you employing a child minder or nursery, socialising with other children is good for him and this day time routine would be much more favourable in the court. Get this routine working for a good few weeks as it will take a while for the application for residency to get to court, by this time the judge will see that the routine works and will be unlikely to upset the status quo.

Unfortunately if your H moves in with toxic MIL, I don't see how it's possible to stop her having much contact with them, but you can limit how much control they have over the situation by establishing yourself as the primary career, getting your DS enrolled in a good nursery that is maybe local to the school you hope he will attend (the same one as your DD?) where he can make friends.

Honestly you can do this, but I really think taking an evening job weakens your position

Yes, I totally see that.

I won't be putting DS in childcare for evenings as I think he is too young for it the more I think about it. You are right, a non-parent putting him to bed all those nights or being taken home at 9.30 at night is a bit too late for him at his age. DD is 7 so probably it would be fine for her as she never ever goes to bed before 9.30 anyway.

The only way I could take the job at this time would be for H to do it as he has (apparently) offered in our own house. But that leaves it's own problems - I'd need to leave the job straight away if we split and go on benefits because it would be far too dodgy and not fathomable to send them up to MIL and H's for all those nights, no way. I'd also need to trust H until I could get hours changed that him offering to do it at home is not just a ploy to either take them to MIL or position himself as main carer. Don't think I can trust him like that at the moment.

Is it worth taking advice from the aggressive lawyer re the job/hours/childcare options? I really liked the sound of him.

Unlike your MiL and H, people I haven't met but find myself detesting.

Oh, and OP, can you really find yourself 'rubbing along' with H, when, to use a cliche, there are three of you in the relationship?

Yes , the counsellor says there are 3 of us in relationship and keeps saying things about H and MIL having a symbiosis , although I'm not quite sure what that term means exactly. She seems to think H and I could, with work, have a viable relationship if the symbiosis (think it means unhealthy co-dependency) between them was broken, but otherwise no. I think we have rubbed along in a relationship most would find untenable because I'm really quite a self-sufficient person, not needing lots of time together (I like my own space) or romance. However, siding with your mother basically telling me I haven't bonded with my child and acting that way is a step far too far, even for me.

Yeah I liked him too, he seemed as if he would really fight my case if needs be. I did take the legal advice before I had the job offer, so I may well go back and see what the situation would be.

Berra is right. I can see you want the job but it really isn't worth it.

I think the bottom line is, do you want to stay in a relationship with DH? If not now is the time to take action. After all he has shown that he is very definitely on MIL's side.

Agree with midwife. As the situation stands I would expect as court to award 50/50 shared care & if your h is living with your MIL she will probably see the children as much as she does now. I'll be honest, most mothers would feel a bit hesitant about their son taking on another family (but I do agree most mothers would think their sons old enough to make their own decisions & not interefere)

Hi OP. I cant add to the tremedous advice you are getting on here but I just wanted to say that you have my huge sympathy. Its a very upsetting situation to be in and you sound very strong. Keep going.

I too have had a toxic MIL - one of the joys of my separation is to not have to see her any more as my children are grown up now. I have never particularly criticised her in front of them over the years but it is interesting that they have no desire to contact her now they dont feel "obliged". I am sure that your children will see your MIL for what she is as they grow older and understand how she undermines you. They might not express it but they understand more than you think.

Best of luck with however you decide to handle this.

There is a way you can have the job and not worry about your children's care though. That is to move in with your dad. Then the children will be supervised and cared for by family members in their home (your dad's) while you work. As you say, the evening shifts can be changed within a year max, possibly sooner. Taking this job will lead to a better life for all of you in the long run.

Just sayin', like.

Wouldn't I be uprooting the DC too much doing that? and would look bad in court? and don't know if my family would be able to watch them for up to a year, nor how I would get to work and back (as it is 5-10 mins from my house, but much longer from my dads)

argh.

H is due back tonight, I feel sick thinking about it. Don't even know if he is coming back. He is at work at the moment (sometimes does Sunday daytimes instead) and I have phoned but he keeps hanging up. I have left a message for him to call me back but I highly doubt he will. Bastard (excuse the language).

My sisters are supposed to visiting today whilst he is at work but I really can't be bothered, no energy, feel like a hermit

Let your sisters come. You need the support. Talk to them.

I would tell your H that you will talk about the job offer when you are both less tired and that you aren't going to make any decisions without his support. I would also tell him that you very much appreciate his offer of working around to that he could look after the dc whilst you take the new job.

I would then ask him which does he think would give you both the better family life, why does he see as the advantages and disadvantages of you taking and not taking the new job?

He has been awful towards you but he is also very much beaten into playing the role MIL wants him to - perhaps deep down he does want to be with you and break from his mother but he is just paralysed and going with the path of least resistance.

I think this cause of action would bide you time to go and see the first lawyer again and think through your options and also to speak to the company to see if they could give you a mixture of shift/hold the opening for you.

I agree with Random..This feels loving and respectful and careful even though you are getting the opposite from H and MIL. You can't go wrong by taking this approach. Something good will come of it for you as well as DCs. It's just slow. And quite hard. But grown up. You are the only adult in the situation at the moment.

A parent's first obligation is to do no harm. Sometimes it is surprisingly hard to achieve that. Especially with a Dark Side MIL and hypnotized H.

It didn't sound very loving or respectful the way he proposed it though - it was more an undertone of 'well you are such an uncaring parent you will do as you like anyway so i'll just have to cut/change my hours to save DC from having to go to a childminder'

The only time I've spoken to him since , on the phone when he was at work , he snapped "I'm at work, stop phoning me, I said take the job if you want"

He never offered any more details however. I wouldn't even consider it unless he means he will do it here, not MIL.

So still none the wiser, and he is working until 11pm. Don't even know if he is planning on coming back.

You are right on the first obligation to do no harm though. That is a good way of putting it.

I just really cannot decide if a) his offer properly stands b) If it is a ploy to arrange to get residency, or not. I really don't know. He does not seem to love or respect me at all at the moment (deciding when we speak about important issues, making me wait days to get a proper response, but he has always been like that mostly) - but then again, neither do I.

My sister came round and has made cookies with DC, taken eldest DC to McDonalds (youngest has no suitable car seat here it's in H's boot). Wrote me a lovely card, and brought me home made chilli . (aww)

I think you could spend a lot of time (and energy) trying to second-guess his motives & actions. It may not get you anywhere.

Instead, concentrate on a plan for what's best for you & DC.

1. Speak to prospective employer re: possibility of changing hours in potential new job.

1. Another meeting with pro-active lawyer to discuss a way forward.

1. Stop discussing splitting up with your DH - you are only giving him (and his mum) further ammunition.

what a lovely sister! She certainly goes high up on the Allies list. And a nice afternoon for the children.

I meant that Random's suggested way of handling the talks you really need to have with H sounded loving and respectful etc...not in any way have I got the sense that H's treatment of you is loving etc...But that if -you- stay serene and calm in your way of talking to him about this situation, it will work out better. Even if he is being an absolute nasty prat. And he won't be expecting you to be calm and deliberate.

When I told my H about the way yours won't take your calls and the way he talks to you when he does, he said it was pure bully tactics. I don't wonder that you don't trust what he says when he says it in that frightening, dismissive way. I think you should treat the situation as a very urgent one. You have to get yourself and the dcs away from this cruelty and confusion.

What would he say if you told him that it is clear that he doesn't want to live with you and that he is free to move in with his mother if he wants to.? Like a zen master stepping aside to allow the attacker to lunge past?

Your H is being a naty bullying prat but you can choose to respond in a much more appropriate manner so that his accusations do not match your behaviour.

Kill him with kindness and reasonableness - MIL is going to sound more and more unhinged because she is going to have to completely lie to say negative things about you.

You can even be bold and state "I don't want to row and argue with you, we as a couple need to decide whether it is a good idea or not for me to take a permanent job"

Longer term you need to do what is right for you and you need to establish yourself as primary carer in the short term diffusing the tension will get your MIL backing off because your H won't be moaning about you etc.

I agree with LotsOfCheese. Stop discussing it with H. He is being of no help, and all you are doing is showing your hand, which will get fed back to MIL.

You are getting lots of advice here, as well as from family and friends. I must say, I don't rate Friend 1's advice. That may have been possible a few weeks ago, but your MIL and H have escalated the issue so much, that pretending to be a Stepford wife is no longer an option (tbh, it was a rubbish plan anyway).

I also really like the sound of lawyer 1. I think you need to speak to him again and come up with a clear plan.

I most definitely WOULD NOT let your MIL look after DC again. AT ALL. Her appalling behaviour towards you needs to have clear consequences, and stopping her having access to DC should be the consequence. Even if it means you need to go sick or take leave for the next couple of weeks whilst you get things sorted. You probably can't stop H bringing them to visit, but she doesn't get to play Mummy Granny any more. If you do continue to use her for childcare, it greatly weakens your parental alienation argument, in that you are still letting it happen.

Also, stop replying to her text messages. (although I would love to respond 'MIL, you sound really anxious, are you OK. Have you been drinking again?' . Joke - don't do it)

If the lease is in your name, and H spends so much time staying at MILs anyway, I would be inclined to get him to sling his hook, tell him you want him out of the house ASAP, change the locks with your landlord's consent, and get an emergency order in place. Speak to your lawyer before you do it, so all the court applications are ready to go.

Then arrange your own childcare. Personally we had a wonderful childminder, so I find the blanket ban on CMs quite bizarre. Compared to the poisonous environment your DC are currently subjected to, it will probably be wonderful.

It might be an idea to reduce your days to two for the moment, not only to offset the accusation that DS will be with a CM for 4 days a week, but also to spend some lovely time with your DC, as they have been subjected to confusing messages from their grandmother, and if you separate from H, they will need the reassurance of having you around much more.

Sadly, I agree that this may not be the right time for your new job, although if you can get get your family to do the minding at your house it would be doable. perhaps you could speak to the employer and explain it is your dream job, but for personal reasons you can't accept it at the moment? Is there any chance that you could get different shifts with it from the outset?

I have just realised that I have said in about 8 paragraphs what LotsofCheese said in 3 lines .

I agree that you need to not let her look after them AT ALL. I'm so sorry you are going though this. Keep posting x

Forgot to add another point:

1. If MIL texts: ignore if abusive (save text though). Polite responses otherwise. Do not initiate contact with her.