Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

HerRoyale,can you see that it would increase the risk,and I am talking about on a night out,like you are.

Larry, there was no statistical analysis regarding cause that I could find in that study - just a number of intoxicated women who were raped. Why would you conclude that it was because she was intoxicated that she was raped?

How do you reach the conclusion that intoxication was the actual causal factor. Surely it is the presence of a rapist that is the only causal factor in a rape.

FFS amillionyears!!!! Did you read the thread?

A million - how does it "increase the risk" what does it "increase the risk" of?

A similarly "proper statistical analysis" of rape might find that men are a causal factor and should be banned...

Amillion, read the thread. I have enjoyed many a night out drinking responsibly with friends. We were all safe because there were no rapists around. I've even walked home alone after having a drink. I wasn't raped.

I was raped, sober, an a sunny afternoon, in a public park.

Maybe Rapists have a new tactic for all these sensible women who keep themselves safe.

oh FFS I'm blaming myself again.

Rape should always be blamed on the fucking rapist. THEY choose to rape.

Thanks for all the victim blaming.

Hey, novel idea, instead of blaming the victim, why don't we shout about the pathetic rape sentencing.

THe damage done to rape victims by victim blaming, on any level, is horrendous. It has an inestimable effect on reporting rates and conviction rates.

When you see how widespread victim blaming is, on MN and in wider society, it really brings home the damage it does.

Here's the logic (again) behind my point;

When you say being excessively drunk makes you more vulnerable to rape because you can't fight them off or haven't got your wits about you, or because it will make you an easy target for an opportunistic rapist outside a kebab shop you are examining the behaviour of the victim to see if there are ways to keep yourself safe.

This is total crap.

Rapists are people, they behave differently to each other, the thing they have in common is that they are rapists and rape is not a crime of opportunity like taking a laptop off a windowsill next to an open window. A rapist needs to feel entitled to have sex without consent and they are exerting power and control when they rape. Things that the victim does like choosing to wear certain clothes or get drunk are incidental to a rapist actually raping but may be used by them to justify their behaviour. When you buy into that process you support and promote rape. You help entitle more rapists to rape and confirm their spurious logic. Above all these things will not keep you safe and some of them will make you more at risk because they demonstrate a lack of understanding of rape and feed into a prejudice against the whole male race and a stereotype of helpless women. Men are not the problem. Attitudes to rape are.

*men and women are not the problem!!

Thankyou, Offred.

Victim blaming gives women a false sense of security which plays straight into a rapists hands.

By victim blaming you are making women MORE vulnerable.

Attitudes to being drunk and rape are the reason why I did not report my first rape. Alcohol did not cause me to make decisions that I would not have made about letting my workmates crash at my house after he missed his train. It did make me blurt out that I categorically did not want to have sex with him, wasnt going to and it was just a place to sleep, which is something I would never have said confidently as a sober 17 year old. I still woke up to him having sex with me, I cried, he carried on. Even though being drunk is what made me clarify exactly to him that I didn't want sex I still thought it was my fault and no-one would believe me because I was drunk and had kissed him.

I have read the thread.
re post of HerRoyale of 11.08am
very very sorry for what happened to you
there are things I would like to say,but wary of saying because they may upset you further.
Should I continue or stop.

Here I am gobblers. Did you miss me?

Some good posts from Larry I see. I actually read that study myself yesterday as well. Very interesting.

I see that this is still going round in circles but it's nice to know that other people share my opinion and because we know that we aren't victim blaming or anything else then it doesn't really matter that some random people on MN think we are. We don't have to defend ourselves against false accusations.

Have a nice day ladies.

Offred, you are absolutely right.

I had to re-educate my own mother the other day (she is an intelligent woman!) when we were talking about the Ched Evans case.

We have to chip, chip away at the victim-blaming rape myths. I am shocked at the strength of feeling that women shouldn't enjoy the same freedoms in society as men, though. Without being blamed if some fucker makes the decision to rape her.

(hugs) to HRHDirona.

It's not an opinion that your posts were victim blaming - you know Bumbley. You know because MN deleted them. I know because I reported them for victim blaming and got a response back from MN.

Amillion - what does being drunk increase the risk of though?

I'm aware these are common attitudes. Larry I think is jumping on a misogynistic band wagon. I think perhaps you are falling into the being drunk makes you easy pickings trap.

Bumbley I think changed her mind and her posts along the thread and is in denial about it. I've said all along Bumbley is wilfully misunderstanding the difference between actually blaming an individual victim and "victim blaming".

"I was drunk when the burglars broke into my home"
"I was drunk on the train when it crashed"
"I was drunk when the car skidded into me"
"I was drunk when the bomb went off"
"I was drunk when my boiler exploded"
"I was drunk when a stranger stabbed me"
"I was drunk when the club caught fire"

Who's responsible for the accident? Would it not have happened if the victim had been sober?

Bad things that happen because you were drunk are things resulting from your own impairment - staggering into traffic; falling over; spilling stuff; forgetting belongings; accidents while driving; leaving the gas on. If something random happens to you, it's natural to wonder if you could have avoided it by making other choices. To lever this doubt in another person is disgusting - and as pointless as saying a train crash was the passenger's fault, rather than the driver's or signalling failure.

running, I'm not sure that anyone thinks they shouldn't be able to enjoy the same freedoms. Unfortunately, while there are still rapists around, we may be at risk when we do.

Telling rapists not to rape (as many of you have suggested) isn't just going to make it magically stop. Do you think they're just going to say, 'oh, ok then' and that's that?

Amillion, the only I would say is would you have a different opinion if we had been in a pub and had a drink?

If yes that is victim blaming.

We had been to the pub on a previous day, we had had a drink. I met him there, we sat outside, plenty of oppourtunity to be dragged down a side street, he didn't rape me there.

He waited. I made him a fucking picnic because he was such a gentlemen. He even bought me a box of chocolates.

Thanks to that rape I'm now left physically damage. He tore me.

Offred, I'm not and I haven't changed my mind. I know exactly what I mean and how I feel. I don't need to defend my opinions. If you want to disagree with me that's just fine.

Right I've got a plan to stop rapes.

Why don't we ban men from going to certian areas at night. Don't want them 'accidently raping someone to we?

Why do we make men wear blindfold, so they can't see the women who are wearing short skirts, we don't want them to rape someone do we?

Why don't we ban men from drinking, after all we don't want them to get pissed and rape someone?

Why don't we make men become a eunuch when he moves in with a woman, don't want him to rape his partner do we?

So who is with me? Lets see how men change their behaviours to see is rapes go down, after all changing womans behaviour hasn't helped has it?