Being drink does not mean you deserve it.

[OhNoMyFanjo]

I have been reading some comments on tge DM site re an interview with a women who was raped. Her rapist has just been convicted. She has had many terrible things said about her in her community due to the rapist being a pillar of tge community.

I wanted to share this comment that someone has made as it sums up what should be obvious to everyone but unfortunately there are some people who don't get it.

You don't get raped because you are drunk - you vomit because you are drunk. You get raped because the rapist standing next to you made the decision to rape you and acted on it. The rapist is the only one accountable for going on to rape a person. End.

'majority of rapes of college women occur when the victim is too intoxicated to resist (?incapacitated rape?)'

Can you really not see what is so MASSIVELY wrong with this sentence?

You can find these kinds of studies to support any viewpoint at all. It would be more reliable if they had examined the features of alcohol's role in rape as a crime. They haven't they have said some college women who are raped are drunk ergo women should not drink. They have not compared it to anything or looked at the role the rapist played in the drinking or the role the rapist played in the rape.

Gobblers,

No, I cannot. I don't think anyone is saying "that's fine" or if you have sex with an incapacitated woman, you should not go to jail for a long time. It is merely stating that when you are incapacitated you are more vulnerable. I think that is a fact. Read the full paper and you will see that the authoresses are at pains to avoid any victim blaming.

But you could argue that alcohol makes men more likely to rape - research shows that men become more aggressive, less able to read signals correctly, less inhibited etc. So as they are the potentially perpertrators of the crime, why is the focus not on MEN changing their behaviour.

Considering that statistically, you seem fond of statistics larry, most women are raped at home by someone they know, usually a partner, then the report would be much better titled

Forming Relationships and Women's Vulnerability to Sexual Victimization: Can Living Only With Other Women Prevent Rape?

Portofino,

"But you could argue that alcohol makes men more likely to rape - research shows that men become more aggressive, less able to read signals correctly, less inhibited etc. So as they are the potentially perpertrators of the crime, why is the focus not on MEN changing their behaviour."

Totally agree. I think men getting blind drunk is equally disgusting. I think the average Brit thinks getting "off their face" is a laugh. I think that is an "alcohol myth" that needs challenging. I will be very disappointed if my sons ever have that attitude. It leads to accidents, violence and crime.

Statistics are bollocks as most women and MEN do Not report rape or sexual assault.

Most women/men are raped by someone they know.

I teach my dc not to get fall down drunk because of the health risks and educate them about responsible drinking, not as a rape deterrant because it's not.

I don't lock my windows ooer. There's a thing called neighbourhood watch.

I also don't know why some posters declare posters debating as feminists. Alot of posters are rape victims.

Nice try.

I haver read the whole paper larry, the authors go to great pains to say, 'We are not putting the onus on women BUT,'

It is not the responsibility of a woman to be in a fit state to fight off a rapist (as if it were possible anyway).

It is up to the man NOT TO RAPE HER.

Larry do you know the difference between victim blaming and blaming the victim. They are at pains to avoid blaming the vitcim. The whole paper is about victim blaming.

As a rape victim I was unprepared for my attack as I was sober and, I thought, safe. I was naive about rape happening only to drunk women.

My rapist took advantage of that naivity and I didn't have time to protect myself. So I was raped through stupidity.

I teach my dc rape can happen anywhere, anytime and hope it gives them the tools to be able to do something as they won't be frozen in shock.

Isn't that responsible parenting?

Offred,

Are you saying that it is wrong to consider if someone has placed themselves at risk of a crime? Is that, by definition, victim blaming? Should that kind of research be banned?

HerRoyale,

Very responsibl and, IMO absolutely right. But I don't think that contradicts also saying that it is a bad idea to get disgustingly drunk.

That study has to be the best bit of victim blaming I've read in a while. It is so widespread isn't it?

Larry, where is the blame on the perpetrator? You also need to understand the difference between 'apportioning blame' and 'victim blaming.' Not many people seem to have a problem with 'apportioning the blame' on the rapist for the crime - yet still talk about the crime of rape in terms of 'what the woman did' (become intoxicated) as being causal in the rape. The only cause of rape, Larry and everyone else, is that a rapist decided to rape.

Targeting women's behaviours when it comes to rape prevention is an error - since the rapist is still there. He will still find a way to rape. Rape isn't an opportunistic crime - it is premeditated and planned. A normal non-rapist man does not come across an intoxicated woman and decide to rape her just because she's drunk. Only a rapist does that.

Putting the onus on women to modify their behaviour to 'avoid rape' is particularly damaging to victims, because they feel that 'they didn't do enough' to avoid the rape - and therefore are somehow culpable. This is where the victim blaming comes in.

Sometimes being frozen in shock is the best thing. I didn't fight any of mine. I don't feel bad about that. I can't see I could have behaved any differently.

Larry - have you read the definition of victim blaming?

Larry, your personal attack against Kiss is disgusting - you should be ashamed of yourself.

Offred,

I just asked you a question, which also goes to running.

Would you ban that kind of study? I.E any study of risk factors in becoming victims of crime? By your definition, I think any study of that kind would be victim blaming.

Victim blaming occurs when the victim(s) of a crime, an accident, or any type of abusive maltreatment are held entirely or partially responsible for the transgressions committed against them (regardless of whether the victim actually had any responsibility for the incident). Blaming the victim has traditionally emerged especially in racist, sexist and classist forms.[1] However, this attitude may exist independently from these radical views and even be at least half-official in some countries.[2]

Running,

You are getting seriously amusing. My personal attack on someone whose opening salvo was to call me a "vile cunt". Are you serious?

I don't think that is relevant larry. I don't believe in banning things, I don't know why that has to do with anything. If I believed in banning things I'd have reported this thread when the victim blaming happened and not spent time posting on it.