As a modern man I feel conned

[DadIsSad]

Amongst the negative thoughts running around my head at the moment (maybe I should be starting this on the mental health forum?) I just thought I'd start by sharing this one. I think I'm a fairly enlightened modern man - I'm posting on here for a start - do lots of childcare including going with kids to things where I'm the only bloke, most of the cooking, and plenty of other stuff around the house. I don't pester DW to have sex, or do anything she doesn't want. Though I'm still in the dark ages because I told her I like the way she looks naked and the meals she cooks when she does something special (I do lots of boring cooking, she does the more interesting stuff - is that also a gender reversal?) - apparently this means I see her as a woman who cooks, cleans and looks good, which is so last century.

But I've read a few women's magazines - and yes I do appreciate that a lot of them bear little resemblance to real life - and followed a few threads on here. Apparently modern woman is supposed to enjoy sex just as much as men do, and not just see it as something they're obliged to do to satisfy their men (until they no longer feel that obligation) and to have children. I've been conned - at least if I was a cave man I might not care what she felt and just get on with it.

We've just had our last session of relate counselling (which is where her reaction to what I thought was a compliment came out). If you've followed my previous thread you might have seen me mention thinking about suggesting sexual counselling - well I bottled it. I could just envisage her reaction that there was nothing wrong with her, so why should she - she doesn't seem to think there's anything at all abnormal with having no interest at all in having sex with your partner, or that she's missing out on anything. For the record she has never had an orgasm, and I suspect she has never masturbated (I recently found the sex toy she bought at an Ann Summers party still wrapped in the original packaging hidden away in a cupboard).

Not really sure what anybody can say to help - just feeling rather depressed today that this is as good as it gets (unless I take a drastic decision - one described as an ultimatum when mentioned as a potential solution during our sessions). I would have carried on with Relate, but not convinced it was getting us anywhere new and DW wasn't keen on taking more time off work for it. Oh, and DW is still reluctant to admit how directly my depression is related to our lack of relationship - I tried to really spell it out to her how my moods changed depending on how it was going and how much I was thinking (generally negative thoughts) about it. But I'm still not sure she took it in, and whether she'll be surprised that I'm down again today - I'm sitting here over 24 hours later after her saying she would make more effort, and she's yet to even touch me, yet alone kiss me.

I am beginning to feel that what the OP actually wants from this thread is for a whole load of women to go 'Yes, your wife is a cunt, just hop on her and give her a good screw, that will sort her out - as long as you keep telling everyone that you're not a bad guy there will be no consequences.'

I'm thinking you are right, SGB.

That's unfair and typically overboard SGB.

I think (very strongly):

Wife has never been into OP sexually probably because due to a collision of no chemistry/his inexperience/something else sexually she finds a huge turn off like bad breath or terrible technique/her inability to discuss sex issues.

Agree that whole housework/infantilised man thing can erode a relationship over time - but not if it's strong in other areas and if she enjoyed sex with him she'd have it with him! Even those of us who are perpetually cream crackered can muster up enthusiasm for sex a few times a month!

It's all a big red herring. Wife needs to put him out of his misery and be brutally honest with him.

Unfair SGB.

He has repeatedly said he doesn't want sex with her regardless. His OP was badly worded but a dribble of conscious thoughts. When my ex was treating me badly there were plenty of times I thought things which were not a reflection of how I really feel about men but a measure of my frustration

OP- this needs ending. It will change you into a person you don't want to be.

In fact SGB that's a fucking terrible thing to write the more I digest your post.

However you feel about OP, how you can derive that from any of his posts I do not know.

Shame on you.

He may SAY he doesn't want sex with her regardless. Yet all his actions revolve around getting her to have sex with him, despite the fact she doesn't want to.

I agree with Proudnscary.

The OP is quite the opposite type of person to what you're inferring, SGB. It is clear from his posts that he is self-doubting and timid and extremely eager to please (hence his obsession with not coming across as the 'bad guy', his inability to leave a farcical marriage, his pathetic quantifying of household tasks etc).

I agree with an earlier poster that this thread probably belongs on the mental health forum, away from the bullying comments of people who are transposing an agenda that doesn't fit the circumstances.

SAF - wasn't meant in prim way, meant in shocked and angry way.

SGB said that OP's objective was to seek permission to fuck his wife without her consent

That's low, really low.

I have gone back and read the history of this whole thing as OP mentioned there were previous threads and I remember contributing to one in the past.

OP - did you do anything about the clutter? It seemed to feature quite heavily in one of your posts as a reason why she found you unattractive.

My understanding is that if you are depressed, living in chaos is and clutter can make that depression worse or even be the cause of it.

Thirteen pages of 'me me me' whining and taking none of the advice offered... doesn't sound like someone who's trying to improve the situation. He never lets go of the idea that everything would be so much better if he could just get his cock in his wife, either.

I'm with SGB and that's just this thread, not to mention all the others.

This will sound unsympathetic but the OP knows the kind of responses he is likely to get on here. He has walked away from a previous thread on account of his depression so why he keeps starting new ones with more provocative titles, I haven't the faintest idea.

SGB - I don't know where you've got the idea that that his what he wants. It's a very unkind think to say to someone. Whining? THe guy is on ADs. Whatever your views on the problems with his sex life your bluntness about it is pretty nasty.

Magic Marker, I think you have summed up the problem really. I think DadIsSad is probably not an ideal husband, but what man is? I'm certainly not an ideal wife. But if a partnership is truly going to work you have to at least love and try and do your best to make the other person happy. It sounds like she can't do that. I'm not blaming her either - this may just be a thing where you are now incompatible as a couple.

I am with SGB too. If this were a first thread on the subject then maybe I would have more sympathy but he's been posting since 2010 and still not pissed or got off the pot!

Maybe that is too blunt, maybe he wants to just moan about it for ever more without making a decision but it won't achieve anything.

Also we only have his side of the story, I would want to hear his wife's side of the story before deciding if he has tried his best to make her want to feel sexual towards him.

1950s- perhaps we have that impression because his threads are always about why he never gets sex. Not why is his wife so unhappy with him.

I'm starting to err on the side of what SGB is saying here I have to say.

I posted before about my depression and how I was feeling. I got advice I went away armed with it. I'm not saying it fixed me but I took on board what was being said. Otherwise what was the point. I walked away from that thread too because I was having an "up" few days and didn't want to drag myself down again. But I didn't come back and post the same things under a different title!

Of course OP is welcome to post what he wants. And I would encourage anyone to talk about their depression openly and honestly. But it is starting to read a bit like he wants everyone to say "you know what, shag her and all will be cured". To me anyway. Sorry.

For all we know, OP may be the nicest man on the planet or the hideous would-be rapist SGB has him down for - that's the joy of internet posting. And if the OP wanted that response, SGB, there are plenty of other websites he could be on where he'd get that answer straight away, surely?

I think LeBFG has it spot on. The OP is not well, he's taking ADs and his responses reflect someone with depression. For example, he studiously avoids answering any of the direct questions, like:

• Would you consider getting love and sex outside the marriage?
• How many times would your wife need to have sex with you a year for you to be happy?
• Why are you more concerned about being seen as the 'bad guy' than actually taking steps to do something.

and gets involved in debates about how much house work he does and how often they had sex 7 years ago!

OP, I think a lot of the aggression shown towards you on this thread is due to the 'wallowing' and lack of action that comes when you are depressed. I did find anti-Ds helped me a lot - but only after 3 months or so, but so did individual counselling. The 'cure' was not immediate either, it took a lot of reflection and practice to change - but I can honestly say I am happier now than ever. My happiness came from stopping constantly putting other people first.

"perhaps we have that impression because his threads are always about why he never gets sex."

absolutely!

Think about how women in abusive relationships slowly wake up to that realisation. It often takes YEARS even for someone that could be described as the sharpest tool in the box! Following a bit of research (not extensive, nor official, more a straw poll) it appeared that ONCE discovery/identification of the fact that the marriage/union ISN'T healthy, it took the women spoken to TWO YEARS to actually get the courage, conviction and wherewith all to get out.

This man has been posting for 2 years, he's beginning to come round to the inevitability of the situation he is in. Of course he doesn't want to end his marriage/relationship, none of us do, even those in HIDEOUSLY abusive situations.

All we can do is keep supporting him, keep reminding him that this is NOT his issue to fix anymore, and that he is entitled to be happy.

DadisSad, you will get there, one day, and we will be here for you until you are ready.

don't ever think compassion, understanding or sympathy will run out, it won't, not collectively. Mumsnet is bigger than that!

Please understand that you have a RIGHT to be depressed, you are unfulfilled, you are not being nurtured, either by yourself or your relationship. you have no way of expressing this effectively so the frustration has turned to anger and then in on yourself.

Know that WHEN you realise that enough is enough, leaving/separating WILL go MILES and MILES to 'cure' your depression. You are in a vicious circle at the moment, and until you break this pattern, you will stay stuck, growing weaker by the day.

be brave. Think about how your life is now, could it get much worse? Then DO something different, make the change and just see how things go. If you separate and then decide that it was a mistake, you may be able to go back, but I think (and I feel certain you know) that once you leave, that will be that.

Perhaps that is what needs to happen, your resistance in moving your life on is slowly killing your spirit. Life is too short to be this miserable.

Well while you are all patting SGB on the back for her take-no-prisoners views...do just continue glossing over her accusation that OP wants to have non consensual sex with his wife or as SGB herself would put it - rape her.

You may feel exasperated with him, you may even feel angry or repulsed by him. You may think he is weak and whiney. But to say this is really without foundation.

Who has said 'shag her and be cured'? A huge majority have said, look mate she doesn't want to have sex with you for whatever reason so time to piss or get off the pot.

Well the phrasing was a bit brutal but I don't think anyone is calling him a rapist Proud!

But he doesn't seem to want to listen to anything else and keeps going back to how he can't have sex with her!

I didn't say anyone had told him to shag her and all would be cured. But it reads to me like that is HIS mentality.

As I said I have depression. I've been in the absolute pits and it's a truly awful place to be but the depression is HIS sickness. It can be combated and he's taking the steps to do that and I think that's wonderful. And yes it would be a lot better if his wife were supportive but she's not! So instead of focusing on how to have sex with her he needs to focus on getting better, improving his life and getting the help that he needs.

Yes she called him a would-be rapist. Categorically.

Well said, walter.

I too have suffered depression so understand it's a horrible place to be. But I didn't blame it on my partner not doing things for me - it was my responsibility to get better. (And actually the last thing on my mind was sex)