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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

"Daddy dropped me on the floor"

441 replies

gladiolus · 22/05/2012 10:19

I have been having some problems with my dh - we're going to relationship counselling after he admitted he needed help. He can be verbally abusive and manipulative, twisting my words to mean something other. I can give as good as I get in return, but I would rather not have to, KWIM?

I've been on the verge of leaving him so many times, but this takes the biscuit.

My youngest dd is 4.5 and when I met my dh she was not quite 1, so she thinks of him as her daddy. She can be very willful and is testing her boundaries at the moment.

Last night she was being an absolute PITA, refusing to put her colouring pencils away at bedtime and basically having a tantrum. After we had given her repeated chances and warnings, my dh finally picked her up bodily and carried her upstairs, saying she was going to bed with no story and no song as punishment for her behaviour.

So far, no problem, she really was being a little madam and I had smacked her bottom. I know some people don't agree with smacking, but that's another discussion.

Anyway, when they got upstairs to her bedroom I heard a big thump and a cry from her. I am familiar with my dd's cries, this one was her "You hurt me cry" but her "I fell over and hurt myself" cry, which is totally different. I hear the "you hurt me" cry when I smack her bottom and when I accidentally pull her hair when I'm brushing it (she has very long curly hair and it gets knotty easily - I do try not to pull but now and again it happens).

The point is, this one was definitely the "you hurt me" cry, it had that undertone of accusatory aggrievedness in it.

My first thought was, "OMG, he's dropped her on the floor," as that is exactly what it sounded like. Then he started yelling at her to get undressed. She still needs a it of help getting undressed so I went upstairs to help her as it wasn't fair for him to yell at her to do something she can't do.

So, we got her to bed and she went quite docilely, no protests at all.

After, I asked him plainly what the noise was I had heard and he said she had thrown herself to the floor after he'd put her down.

But this morning when I was getting her ready for school, I didn't put words in her mouth at all, I simply asked her, "Last night, when Daddy took you upstairs, what happened?"

And she instantly replied, "Daddy dropped me on the floor."

I know sometimes children can be aggravating and she really was at her worst last night, but this is really too much, isn't it?

I haven't spoken to him yet. I took her to nursery this morning and went for a run and he's still in bed.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 22/05/2012 18:25

'He explained today that he thought if she sat on the step for a few minutes, it would be putting bedtime off even further, which was what she wanted.'

That is a justification of a violent intervention and it occurred to him long after the fact. My guess is that he lost his temper with both you and her.

mathanxiety · 22/05/2012 18:34

And someone who is capable of rationalising what he did (completely blanking you out and frightening your DD) is very capable of rationalising everything the counsellor may be saying about his abusive behaviour.

I think you are clutching at straws when it comes to the counselling and also in your rethinking of your instincts about what happened last night.

What happened the last time to make you threaten to leave?

bumbleymummy · 22/05/2012 18:38

Violent intervention? He picked her up an dcarried her upstairs. Ok, he should not have undermined the OP And I'm sure she will be discussing that with him but jumping to conclusions about dropping her intentionally etc and going on about humiliation (of course she had to get undressed for bed!) and power plays etc is just a bit extreme and not exactly helpful. Sometimes I think people set out to find things wrong with people's relationships and tear them apart :(

mathanxiety · 22/05/2012 18:44

She can't undress herself, according to the OP. She needs help at the best of times apparently. Yelling at her to undress and not helping constitutes humiliation.

'But before I had chance to do that, dh swooped in and dragged her upstairs and told her there would be no story and no song.'
= violent intervention.

You can deny and minimise all you want. It's a free country.

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 18:46

bumblymummy the op herself has said he is abusive and controlling.

CuriousMama · 22/05/2012 18:47

I feel so sad for your dcs. I'd be out of there.

bumbleymummy · 22/05/2012 19:08

Now I'm minimising? Hmm

bumbleymummy · 22/05/2012 19:17

Aka, where did she say that he was controlling and abusive? She said he's not violent, he sometimes tries to be controlling but she doesn't let him and that when she had thought of leaving he admitted that some of his behaviour could be abusive. ( he said that) I think a lot of you are enjoying making a huge drama out of someone else's life. It's quite sickening really.

youarehere · 22/05/2012 19:27

I can't honestly understand how people are going on about violent intervention when the op is the one that smacks the child. The dj does sound abusive but the only one that we know for a fact laid a finger on this child is the op. But people seem to be intent on saying things like 'its because of your dh' and ' as long as you know what you did was wrong its ok'. If the op said 'dd was playing up and dh smacked her bottom so I picked her up to remove her from the situation and she wriggled out of my arms' everyone would be telling her get the child out of reach of the dh. But it seems ok for the mother to do it as long as there are justifications from her. I doubt the same justifications would work for the dh. People are assuming to much. Nothing proves he purposely dropped her. He is a prize test but no proof he has physically abused the child. Sorry op, i know I sound harsh but I don't get how people are saying he definitely did anything, but brushing over the fact you admit you smack your child.

joblot · 22/05/2012 19:28

Maybe so but I expect original posts on here to be when people are worried/desperate. That's my experience, one desperately tries to minimize the problem whilst knowing deep down its not ok, or you wpuldnt be so worried about it. and there are previous posts about this mans behaviour. Why, if its as straightforward as you suspect?

oiwheresthecoffee · 22/05/2012 19:36

Personally i know a lot of people who dont have an issue with smacking. Im one of them. It not idea but its hardly the devil either. Hmm
However OP your DP sounds very unpleasent. Do you really really want to be with him ? Truely ?

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 19:36

No, chucking a 4 year old little girl on the floor is sickening. The dh's treatment of the ops children is sickening.

The op has said he "can be abusive and manipulative" later she also says he is controlling. Not trawling back through the thread because you didn't read the thread properly, find it yourself.

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 19:37

I am not enjoying anything about this thread, believe me Sad.

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 19:38

Oh and I told the op twice she shouldn't smack her child.

youarehere · 22/05/2012 19:39

Maybe someone can explain how smacking is any different to hitting. While one is milder both are designed hurt and scare the child. And imo humiliate. But I am open to change my mind. At the moment it seems labelling it 'smacking' seems socially acceptable. I don't get why.

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 19:42

Well I am happy to go on the record and say I believe that "smacking" your child is wrong and assault IMO. But now we risk derailing this thread into a smacking debate, which is not useful for the op or her dc.

youarehere · 22/05/2012 19:49

Neither is it usful to tell the op her du definitely purposely dropped her dd from a great height. Its ok for people saying the op should quickly remove the children, as she will find she won't need to smack. What if that's not true. What if the op can't cope on her own? Not saying she should stay, but there are to many people deflecting the ops actions by blaming her dh. surely if the child should be removed from the dh, immediately they should be removed from the op as she is the only one who has laid a finger on the child. If one parent should be removed for suspected violent and probable controlling behaviour, should the same not apply to the parent who actually is violent to the child. Imo both parents are hurting these children, then blaming the children and eachother for their failings. Lots of work has to be done by everyone to help these children.

bumbleymummy · 22/05/2012 19:50

Aka - You might need to start trawling because I have read the thread, and just reread it to be sure and she does not say that he is abusive and manipulative or that he is controlling. She said what I stated above. I see plenty of you distorting things and putting words in her mouth though so I'm not surprised that you are unsure of what has actually been written anymore. Let me just also point out for you that the DH did not 'chuck a 4 yo on the floor' - yet more of your exaggeration and distortion and not particularly useful. I really hope the OP isn't reading this thread anymore :(

Nyac · 22/05/2012 19:54

Why do you have to work at it OP? Who says you do?

He's a bully and he isn't even your children's biological father. Get rid.

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 19:56

"he can be verbally abusive and manipulative"

That's in the OP.

bumbleymummy · 22/05/2012 20:00

I think 'verbally' is important there AND it is in relation to her and what they are getting counselling for. The way he speaks to her does not automatically translate into a child abuser who flings children around!

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 20:05

Yes I think verbally is important there too seeing as it is well know that verbal abuse is as bad and considered by many to be even worse than physical abuse.

I hope she doesn't come back to this thread too bumbleymummy seeing as she is so on the fence already, your ridiculous assessment of the situation might be the one opinion that convinces her she has to keep trying to make a go of it with this abusive arsehole.

akaemmafrost · 22/05/2012 20:08

Do you actually have any experience of being in an abusive relationship btw?

The reason I ask is that those who have are able to pick up on signs and clues in certain behaviours that others may miss. Hence going to relate and joint counselling not being indicated for those in relationships with abusers. You sound pretty clueless to be honest which is a good thing for you but means that you will be pretty clueless to the dynamic of an abusive relationship. Mathanxiety summed up this situation fantastically in a really unemotive way.

mathanxiety · 22/05/2012 20:14

Because verbal abuse is less damaging for children to be exposed to than physical? Hmm

The OP had told the DD to go to the simmer down chair when the H swept in and carted the child off, an abrupt and unilateral end to the interaction between the child and her mother. The OP's effort to approach the situation by predictable means was doomed in that one fell swoop. Gone too was the child's understanding that both parents were authority figures. The H blew the OP out of the water and showed everyone who was the boss. From a situation that hadn't been in any way ideal, with smacking already administered, the OP was trying to get things back to a normal pattern and assert control but that apparently got the H's goat, and instead the child was literally lifted immediately into territory that was completely unpredictable in the arms of her step father, and probably terrified by the speed at which it all happened and the realisation of the physical strength she was up against. And she would have been able to apprehend the message sent to her mother by the H too ('Don't mess with me'). That is physical abuse. Physical abuse is use of force or physicality to get one's way, and use of force or physicality to silence debate, use of force or physicality to communicate.

youarehere · 22/05/2012 20:31

And the fact that the op had already smacked the dd. What's that if not physical abuse? Verbal abuse is just as bad as verbal. But it seems here the op hands out physical and the dh verbal. That's my point they are both as bad as eachother. If the children should be removed from one parent they should be removed from both, surely. And yes and have been in a very abusive relationship. Nearly killed me.